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Old 02-03-2007, 07:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by Nausikaa

I am amazed to note Craig's comment in which he claims that am wrong in taht anchors of one type hold better o specific sea beds than of another. Thirty odd years at sea tells me I am right. However, in all fairness I must admit to never having tried a Rocna anchor and if the Rocna is as good as he claims then nobody will be happier than me. In fact, if the claim is justified then a Rocna will be my next anchor.
Quite - for our part, I will claim that the Rocna will set and out-perform any other anchor, on a size-for-size basis, regardless of the bottom type. One exception is rock, for which no anchor except perhaps a grapnel is effective. Anyway the point is it is a bit unnecessary to have a large range of types, e.g. CQR, Bruce, and Danforth, when the only reason is because you don't trust each on its own. Just find something better...

For example, and again I am dropping the Rocna name, so excuse me: Peter, our designer, is off across the Southern Ocean in a few months, single-handing his 50' 25 ton yacht, and is equipped with 4 Rocnas of various sizes - which he considers more than adequate for Patagonia, Antarctica, the north-east coast of South America, and then an intended trip across the pond to the Mediterranean. This is a guy who has a lifetime of experience with CQR, Bruce, Delta, Danforth, etc, and while you would expect him to be using his own design, it nonetheless provides some credibility - at least in my mind - considering the reliance placed on one's anchor(s).

Quote:
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Originally posted by Nausikaa

I see from the graph on the Rocna site that the anchor compares favourably with all others but without specifying the type of holding ground. Any details about this?
Indeed the articles in question, from SAIL and Yachting Monthly, specify in some detail what the bottom type was. You will find both on our "independent reviews" page. For the record, it was three locations in California, all sand, more hard than soft.
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Old 02-03-2007, 08:27 PM   #22
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Here's a problem/question about bottom type.

Twice we have anchored in bays with bottoms that seemed to be thixotropic. I love that word, did not like what it is. Thixotropy - a seemingly thick substance that thins upon being agitated. Classic examples are Campbells Tomato Soup, catsup, and bentonite. Quicksand. If you fell into a vat of bentonite suspended in water (which is a clay), you would float unless you tried to swim. As soon as you tried to move the stuff would thin and you would sink.

Anchoring. The first place we encountered this peculiar bottom was in Curacao, I think Maundy's Bay, a very large and uninhabited bat at the very west end of the island. In Curacao and Aruba, famous for the Divi Divi trees that are permanently bent to leeward, the winds blow 20 to 30 knots all the time. The beaches are a very fine coral sand, a bit like talcum powder.

When we anchored in Maundy's bay with our CQR late in the day, the anchor seemed to hold just fine. All night long the wind howled above us keeping anchor rode taut. When we woke up the next morning we had dragged to the other side of the bay, yet the anchor was well set in the bottom. Wanting to stay another day or so, we got out our large Danforth anchor. And pulled it up, put it down, pulled it up, put it down everywhere in the bay. It just wouldn't hold. Back to the CQR. Same thing - it would initially hold, but then slowly, slowly we would be pushed back by the wind, anchor rode taut the entire time.

We wound up giving up and leaving.

The second and last time we encountered a bottom such as this was in French Polynesia, though I can't remember the island or bay. Again, we were the only boat there, it was a huge long bay, and we just dragged back almost the length of the bay. This time, however, we finally came to a stop and didn't move again.

Both times the anchor was down holding seemingly well, but backwards we would travel no matter what we tried.

Has anybody else had an experience such as this?
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Old 02-04-2007, 04:00 AM   #23
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Only time I dragged was in high winds with insufficient scope.

I have failed to anchor in only one place...Radio Bay, Hilo. Normally a great mud bottom with good holding, at times it packs down to almost like a sheet of rock.

The rocna anchor addresses the problem I have with the delta. It doesn't always set. The delta has good holding power but I find I must be very careful when deploying. If it doesn't set initially then all the dragging around in the world won't make it dig in. You have to lift it and redeploy or it just skips along the bottom. As mentioned before..the rocna will be my next anchor. It's just a better anchor.
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Old 02-04-2007, 12:43 PM   #24
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I have a Super Max and have been very happy with it. I beleiver that it is only sold in the States.
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Old 02-04-2007, 12:56 PM   #25
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Thanks for the information Graig.

I sincerely hope that all you claim the Rochna anchor is capable of is true as I am certainly prepaired to purchase one and try it. Next problem then. Where can I get hold of one? My boat is in Denmark.

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Old 02-04-2007, 01:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by Nausikaa

Thanks for the information Craig.

I sincerely hope that all you claim the Rocna anchor is capable of is true as I am certainly prepaired to purchase one and try it. Next problem then. Where can I get hold of one? My boat is in Denmark.
We are actually in the process of setting up a Danish distributor, but for the time being your closest agents are the Netherlands and the UK. See "where to buy" on our website for details (set region to Europe).
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:51 PM   #27
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quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Francis

Thanks for the info on the Rocna, looks good. However the Spade sold by West Marine is significntly cheaper ... Perhaps I missed something in the process.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps you missed the "Prices are in New Zealand dollars" notice on the pricing page.

North American pricing is available from the respective resellers.

No I didn't miss the fact that the prices were in NZ$. However I did miss the fact that the currency converter did not work , it output the same value regardless of the currency. So indeed the Rocna is more competitive than the Spade from WM. Incidently Defender is more expensive.
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Old 02-05-2007, 01:33 AM   #28
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Thixotropic. That is a good word. Regarding getting an anchor to set in poor holding ground, like a "thixotropic" bottom, has anyone tried a tandem anchor setup? I never have, just read about it and wonder how well it works. Certainly makes sense at least in theory.....

Regarding the Rocna. Being constantly bombarded by advertising makes me leary of anyone that offers advice while having something to sell me. Not that the Rocna is flawed, it may in fact be a superior anchor. I believe the Rocna was tested by Practical Sailor in the last year or so? I notice that the PS test is not on your website? RT
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Old 02-05-2007, 07:42 AM   #29
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After veiwing the graph of various anchors especially highlighting the Rocna anchor... look at the graph for the CQR!!!!. I'm very worried about my 35 lb CQR which has served me well for the past 20 years. The only time it has dragged was on Kawau Island, New Zealand. This was 3 weeks after "Chrissy Time". An aluminium beer can was impaled on the sharp point and the anchor truely became a farmers earth plow..
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Old 02-05-2007, 09:07 AM   #30
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Power & Motoryacht have a good article this month with more data and graphs. Rocna looks very good...about the same as the Spade & Manson with all things considered.

Quote: "The anchor (Rocna) tended to drag at first but finally set each time and held once to 5000 pounds."

The Manson "Supreme" has some attractive features as well.

www.manson-marine.co.nz

And what a deal...only $1715.00 for 45# and $2030.00 for 60# Stainless
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Old 02-05-2007, 12:21 PM   #31
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While cruising New Zealand years ago...(1992 to 1995)during the last trip to NZ, I had my 35 lb "CQR" plough anchor regalvanized.

Upon return and a fine job done indeed, To my dismay,I saw 2 small holes drilled 6 inches above the point...

I asked the galvanizing company why this was so.

The response was they thought it was an older Manson plough anchor(one inch lettering stating CQR Made in Scotland was clearly marked on the shank)

Apparently the Manson plough has a lead weight capsule enclosed in the point.

The small holes were drilled to release pressure build up and prevent the lead from exploding during the hot dip galvanizing process!!!!!!

What the hell... so what do I do with the damn holes?

In true kiwi fashion I was told..."Just fill em in with bog (epoxy)mate.. she will be right mate....

So I did and have experienced no problems to date.

In 2004 in Oz I had the plough regalvanized again and mentioned the "holes" and that it was a CQR and not a Manson anchor etc....

The staff just looked at me out of the corner of their eyes, smirked and did another fine regalvinizing job.

Can anyone or staff at Manson Anchors verify this esoteric/obscure question? This has been an amusing "sea fearing" story at many boat parties.
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Old 02-05-2007, 01:27 PM   #32
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I can't directly answer your question, however, I had my 80lb Anderson regalvanised in Darwin recently. When I phones the electroplating works, they suggested I melt out the lead plug and reset it after the galvanising.

They said they would not be responsible for the integrity of the lead plug during the hot dip process. There was a quite heavy amount of lead which I guess could have been dislodged, melted and escaped during the regalvanising.

I remelted the lead and poured it back into the anchor after the process with no subsequent loss of weight.

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Old 02-05-2007, 04:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Converted Post
Originally posted by Francis

However I did miss the fact that the currency converter did not work , it output the same value regardless of the currency. So indeed the Rocna is more competitive than the Spade from WM.
Sorry, it seems the European Central Bank's servers were down over the weekend. You can try again now, it should be working fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Converted Post
Originally posted by Trim50

Power & Motoryacht have a good article this month with more data and graphs. Rocna looks very good...about the same as the Spade & Manson with all things considered.
The Power & Motoryacht article is the same as the SAIL and Yachting Monthly testing - although I would say the worst write-up of it, of the three. The other two are on our website as mentioned above. Some of what Power & Motoryacht say directly contradicts Yachting Monthly, so go figure. Note that the data presented in the graph by P&M is nothing like the complete test; the figures in the graph posted above are an average of the entire thing, and speak for themselves.

The Manson Supreme anchor is a cheap copy of the Rocna, as are their other anchors - they do a CQR, Bruce, Danforth, etc. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Converted Post
Originally posted by BJSmith

While cruising New Zealand years ago...(1992 to 1995)during the last trip to NZ, I had my 35 lb "CQR" plough anchor regalvanized.

Upon return and a fine job done indeed, To my dismay,I saw 2 small holes drilled 6 inches above the point...

I asked the galvanizing company why this was so.

The response was they thought it was an older Manson plough anchor(one inch lettering stating CQR Made in Scotland was clearly marked on the shank)
Manson do this with their CQR copies, in order to get tip-weight. The galvanizers are correct to drill if there's lead, but clearly they don't know about the genuine CQR.

Having said that, some old CQRs also have lead inserts, from Simpson-Lawrence and before.
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Old 02-06-2007, 09:12 AM   #34
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Craig and others:

Many thanks for the info regarding the lead capsule/w/plug in the tip of Manson and Anderson plough anchors.

Didn't know some genuine CQR's had it also.

The CQR I have seems not to be one of the lead tip type as after two hot dip regalvanizings and no re-leading it still weighs very close to 35 lbs.
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Old 02-06-2007, 02:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by JeanneP

Here's a problem/question about bottom type.

Both times the anchor was down holding seemingly well, but backwards we would travel no matter what we tried.

Has anybody else had an experience such as this?
Had exactly the same problem in the Rebak basin in Langkawi. Had an oversized CQR with 8:1 chain - very slowly dragged. Then tried a Plow - same rode - very slowly dragged. They have since dredged the basin. Haven't tried it since...
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:04 PM   #36
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Dnelson, I haven't tried the Rebak area but the anchorage area just outside Telaga Marina is the same. The CQR would drag with 20 knots, the Bruce was holding better. It seems to be another problem with rapid corrosion on anchor chain due to the nature of the soil.
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Old 02-11-2007, 03:29 AM   #37
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Well. but you should be aware that the NICE curve published here has NEVER been published by neither SAIL Magazine nor by Yachting monthly..

This curve is a pure INTERPRETATION done by ROCNA in order to show that the Rocna anchor was the first in the test!!!

This conclusion is neither supposted by Sail Magazine nor by Yachting Monthly magazine..
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