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Old 07-18-2004, 04:31 AM   #15
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Re: Armed vs. Unarmed

« Reply #14 on: Jul 8th, 2004, 06:06am »

It's still a step in the right direction...

But you're right. thanks for the correction.

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Old 07-25-2004, 02:51 AM   #16
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Frankly, unless you have lived with firearms, and are highly experienced with handling the weapons of your choice, I would leave them behind when I go cruising. All the reasons given above for NOT having a weapon aboard are good. A firearm in the hands of an untrained, inexperienced user is an instant invitation to your own funeral. I've read all the statistics...."for" and "against", and I carry a firearm on my person, or handy to reach, wherever I go. But NOT while cruising the seven seas. To "legally" possess, that firearm in many countries means you will have it securely under "lock and key", with ammo stored separately and securely. Useless to you in a panic. Other places will confiscate the firearm until you "clear out", and, as mentioned above, MAY have lost track of the weapon by the time you return for it! Again, useless to you in a panic. As pointed out earlier, illegal possession of a firearm could seriously shorten your cruising experience, while adding a prison stay in interesting new surroundings to your resume!

Another thought on the flaregun issue. It won't kill anybody; but it will surely piss them off.... I rather like the idea of shooting it into the air, as it's meant to be used...calling attention to an emergency... By all means keep the flaregun handy, and cartridges handy (and dry) near at hand while cruising. Don't try to shoot anybody with it!
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Old 03-13-2005, 07:09 PM   #17
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Firearms Regulations by Country: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread....&threadid=1641

The above reference post provides a listing of firearms regulations for over 30 popular cruising destinations, and a few links to reference sites (facts - not opinions).

Over they years I’ve participated in, and listened to, many interesting and spirited (often “heated”) debates on the advisability of carrying firearms aboard a cruising vessel. Aside from anchoring, nothing seems to generate more passion than this important subject. I’ve tried to keep my opinions and biases to myself, and merely provided some of the background information (regulations) that may help to refine your thinking on the subject.

FWIW,

Gord May
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Old 03-14-2005, 12:12 AM   #18
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Thanks Gord,

I don't think I've seen a post as helpful as you made over at CruisersForum. I pored over that article and looked at the links there, and found Noonsight especially interesting.

-Robin
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Old 03-14-2005, 03:34 PM   #19
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Without really entering into the argument, we in Australia are fairly sensitive about the issue with one of our better known sailors, Christopher Packer (a former Sydney/Hobart winner) being imprisoned in Indonesia for not declaring firearms he had on board.

Initially, he was charged with gun running but when it became apparent that he had purchased the weapons for self protection he was sentenced to 3 months imprisonment (I think!!). My point is that if you do choose to carry them, make sure you obey the regulations of the country you are in.

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Old 03-15-2005, 04:34 AM   #20
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This is one subject on which sailors will be either for or against and will never agree upon. Robin and I have had an exchange which makes obvious our opposing views. I do see and appreciate the views of those who propose to and do carry guns are but those of us who advocate not doing this are unlikely to be convinced and vice versa.

I sincerely hope that those of you who do carry fire arms never have to use them in anger and those of us who don't never regret the fact that we haven't any overt means of protection.

It is a sad indictment on the world that we wish to peacefully travel through that this discussion has to take place at all but we have to be realistic and come to terms with the dangers. We can make cases for and against and cite incidences which support our points of view but in the end it is a personal choice.

Sail safely

David
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:39 AM   #21
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I come down strongly on the side of sailing armed. For those who are uncomforable with firearms in the states, don't take one. It's a matter of personal philosophy.

Now, if one does decide to sail armed, there are very different considerations at work in choosing your weapons than back in the USA. In many countries, "military calibers" are forbidden. That is, 9mm, .45mm, 5.56mm, 7.62NATO etc. In general, shotguns are looked on more favorably than other weapons. Revolvers raise fewer eyebrows at clearing customs than auto pistols. Another approach is to buy an inexpensive military surplus bolt action rifle in an obsolete caliber, and call it your "shark rifle." A British .303 Enfield would be ideal.

If you are being shadowed/stalked by a suspicious vessel in a threatening way, the presence of your rifle at binocular range may mean the would-be pirates will look elsewhere for easier pickings. Not even pirates want to risk a rifle shot wound at sea.
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:16 AM   #22
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In regard to what type of rifle to carry, I suggest something high-power, such as the 7.62NATO, 30-06, etc. In the event of pirates attacking your ship, I would think one's best bet would be to try to disable their ship. My Springfield Armory SAR8 is accurate to around 800 yards, scoped. The 7.62NATO round it fires can pierce engine blocks. At around 1/3 nautical mile, you could shoot up their boat enough to discourage them, or even sink or disable them.

My thinking is that once a pirate vessel gets close, they will probably out-man and out-gun their intended victim.
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
At around 1/3 nautical mile, you could shoot up their boat enough to discourage them, or even sink or disable them.

My thinking is that once a pirate vessel gets close, they will probably out-man and out-gun their intended victim.
And at 1/3 mile, how do you know that the boat approaching you is manned by pirates intending to do you wrong?
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Old 04-07-2005, 01:26 AM   #24
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I realize this is a very serious subject and should be treated with sobriety. I however could not help myself when reading J's last comment. I hope my input clears up the question of how one spots a pirate at a quarter mile. I mean everyone knows you look for the Jolly Roger Forgive Me
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Old 04-07-2005, 02:04 AM   #25
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In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

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Old 04-07-2005, 08:24 PM   #26
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Here's another one. Though don't expect a story, he didn't live to tell it.

http://www.noonsite.com/Members/doin...4-06-29-2/view
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:35 AM   #27
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What do you think of this incident? On March 8th, two yachts travelling together off the coast of Yemen were fired at into the cockpits. One of them managed to return fire, which probably saved their lives. There is a full, first person account at Noonsite.com

As more and more pirates carry and use guns, more cruisers will too. Right or wrong I think that's the way it'll go. Shame.

We're more likely to be shot at living in a city but the difference is that on the sea your more isolated from help.
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Old 06-20-2005, 11:55 PM   #28
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I know I'm joining this a bit late, but...

I have a question.

Reading the reports, it appears the main reason that you would need a gun would be to 'repel borders' in a piracy situation.

Now reading these piracy reports again, it seems that to have a gun, even a powerful assault rifle, would at best put you on even terms with some pretty desperate people, would probably have more guns, and (in my case certainly) a greater desire to hurt someone.

Indeed the most successful defense of a yacht was through ramming their aggressors - despite shots being fired.

As a boat tends not to be bullet proof, and working on the principle that a sure-fire way to get someone to fire on you is to fire on them first, wouldn't any such situation effectively be tantamount to forfeiting your boat?

From a pure common sense angle, it seems that unless you can escalate a situation beyond their capabilities, you are only ever trying to bluff them - a dangerous game when one bullet below the waterline could leave you swimming.

To me, I think a far better deterent/way to protect yourself/make sure the baddies don't come close would be some form of rocket launcher. Even if you aim to miss, I doubt they would carry on in the face of something that is clearly a massive risk to their boat/lives...?

I know this is a tad controversial, but I would value people's opinion on this.
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