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Old 10-18-2011, 05:50 PM   #15
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Check out the Freedom 39 Pilot House

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Old 10-18-2011, 08:24 PM   #16
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Check out the Freedom 39 Pilot House
Thanks, very interesting boat!

Unstayed masts are heavy and require much heavier deck, also a mast on the very bow -- needs extra attention to avoid pitcholing (going over the bow when running before huge waves).

Also I feel a bit uneasy looking at her extra large portholes - quite dangerous for the high seas...

Otherwise a great boat!
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:53 PM   #17
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To summarize:

- What rig do you think is the most efficient and safe for a 34 - 36' boat in south oceans?

Thanks!
I've always thought a sloop or cutter rigged boat is best until you get up into a size that the sails are too large to deal with and then having two masts really helps. That would be over 40' IMHO.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:16 PM   #18
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I've always thought a sloop or cutter rigged boat is best until you get up into a size that the sails are too large to deal with and then having two masts really helps. That would be over 40' IMHO.
From my experience, when sailing singlehanded, even 36' sloop may be difficult to handle efficiently in gusty conditions. I think that ability for singlehanded sailing varies greatly from individual to individual...

Anyway I am looking for a good book about sailing ketch, but can't find one. Maybe some one knows such a book? I would be very much obliged for your advice!

Thanks!
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:24 PM   #19
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Speaking about Bernard Moitessier, I simply can't skip his great ideas. Here are some quotes from his "The Long Way" book:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Moitessier)

p.97

I shut the radio up yesterday. They were really getting on my nerves with their infant Jesus. We use Him as a shield, quietly going about our sleazy huckstering, making the sign of the cross all over the place to pretend we are facing up to ourÂ*selves. How could we so lose our sense of the divine and the meaning of life? I have been rereading Steinbeck, Wind, Sand and Stars, Avant Que Nature Meure, The Roots of Heaven these last months. At times I would close my eyes after reading a line, a paragraph, a page, when it stirred a special response in me. I feel now that the people who wrote those books were expresÂ*sing themselves not only with words and ideas, but with vibrations. And those vibrations go far beyond our puny little man-made words.

In the beginning was the Word. I have not read the Bible, the print is too small. And it seems 'God' was translated wrong, the Hebrew text actually reads 'gods'. But that does not matter, because there is the Word. The Word goes well beyond everything, no translation could touch it. Could the Word be a vibration, I wonder? A vibration so powerful that out of it the universe was born. I do not know whether I read that somewhere, a long time ago, at a period of my life when those things found no answer in me, or whether I felt it all by myself on this Christmas night. I think it is rather a very distant echo, because I also feel that the books I have been reading since setting out were not written by Jean Dorst alone, or Romain Gary, Saint-Exupery or Steinbeck alone, that is to say not by some men, but by all men. And those works are everyone's, and our heritage together.

p. 118

I found something more. A kind of undefinable state of grace. Some people may possess it by birth or instinct. Others can find it someday in the course of their lives; no one will ever know and it does not matter. The main point is that it exists, and with it things take their natural place, their proper balance in the whole within.

The moon is gone. She will be back in a few days, like a smile, very shy at first, then bigger and bigger. The barometer is falling now, but life goes on at its normal pace, even with the threat of a gale. How long will it last, this peace I have found at sea? It is all of life that I contemplate — sun, clouds, time that passes and abides. Occasionally it is also that other world, foreign now, that I left centuries ago. The modern, artificial world where man has been turned into a money-making machine to satisfy false needs, false joys.
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Old 11-04-2011, 05:56 PM   #20
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The unstayed masts on Freedom boats are made of carbon fiber and are much lighter than you would think. Add up the weight of all the standing rigging on a stayed masts and you would be amazed! Especially a boat "over-rigged" for heavy-weather sailing. The hull is designed with added buoyancy to support the weight and I've never heard of a freestanding rig making a boat more likely to pitchpole. A jib out on a bowsprit would likely have more of an effect than a freestanding mast in that regard.

There are many boats in the Freedom line-up, my personal favorite being the early center-cockpit Freedom 40s, but they aren't pilot house boats....
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:06 PM   #21
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The unstayed masts on Freedom boats are made of carbon fiber and are much lighter than you would think. Add up the weight of all the standing rigging on a stayed masts and you would be amazed! Especially a boat "over-rigged" for heavy-weather sailing. The hull is designed with added buoyancy to support the weight and I've never heard of a freestanding rig making a boat more likely to pitchpole. A jib out on a bowsprit would likely have more of an effect than a freestanding mast in that regard.

There are many boats in the Freedom line-up, my personal favorite being the early center-cockpit Freedom 40s, but they aren't pilot house boats....
Freedom is a nice boat, sure. And cat schooner rig should allow go up closer to the wind, I think. I was always wondering on the term "cat schooner", does it come from abbreviating "cutter schooner"? What is the history of this rig, when and where "cut schooner" came into being first of all?
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Old 11-06-2011, 01:46 AM   #22
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"CATBOAT: A catboat (alternate spelling: cat boat), or a cat-rigged sailboat, is a sailing vessel characterized by a single mast carried well forward (i.e., near the bow of the boat).

Although any boat with a single sail and a mast carried well forward is 'technically' a catboat, the traditional catboat has a wide beam approximately half the length of the boat, a centerboard, and a single gaff-rigged sail."

quoted from Wikipedia, CATBOAT
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:49 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JeanneP View Post

"CATBOAT: A catboat (alternate spelling: cat boat), or a cat-rigged sailboat, is a sailing vessel characterized by a single mast carried well forward (i.e., near the bow of the boat).

Although any boat with a single sail and a mast carried well forward is 'technically' a catboat, the traditional catboat has a wide beam approximately half the length of the boat, a centerboard, and a single gaff-rigged sail."

quoted from Wikipedia, CATBOAT
Thanks for the clarifications. I know catboats, though it never occurred to me that cat-schooner originates from a catboat.

BTW, catboat rig and beamy aft are very unsafe for cruising in south seas.

As for freestanding fiberglass masts on Freedom - how one can possibly repair these in cruise?

And also how strong are her huge portholes to the breaking waves?
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:31 PM   #24
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Looking for a 34 - 36' ketch I came across these two Bruce Roberts designs:

1) Roberts 36 ketch:

http://www.brucerobe...description.htm

L.O.D. 11.20 m 36' 9"

L.W.L. 8.76 m 28' 9"

BEAM 3.35 m 11' 0"

DRAFT (lead ballast) 4' 0"

(scrap steel ballast) 4' 9"

DISPL. (Fg or Wood) 14,750 lb (steel) 18,000 lb

BALLAST
6,275 lb

AUX. PWR 20 TO 33 hp

2) Centennial Spray 36

http://www.brucerobe...description.htm

L.O.D. ( HULL) 11.05 m 36' 4"

L.W.L. 9.85 m 32' 4"

BEAM 3.96 m 13' 0"

DRAFT 1.30 m 4' 3"

DISPLACEMENT 12,700 kg 28,000 lb

Both are quite beamy, I think.

Any other comments?

Which one will go better wind-ward, what do you think?
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:47 AM   #25
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Hi there,

Sorry to say I can't tell you which would go better to windward. The Spray has a lot of windage--I like the looks of the other better. However, that's not helpful is it?

Are you considering building one of these? Where are you located right now? A lot of US boatyards have half-built Roberts sitting around.

Regards,
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:36 PM   #26
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Are you considering building one of these? Where are you located right now? A lot of US boatyards have half-built Roberts sitting around.
I am thinking about building in Europe. Unfortunately, so far, I can't find really good ketch designs (plans) in 34 - 36' range.

Another design I was considering before setting firmly on a small ketch was Pratique 35:

http://www.dixdesign.com/pr35.htm
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:21 AM   #27
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It is shown in your link as a cutter. In the size you wish, a sloop or cutter rigged vessel would be very nice. Why go for the ketch? A split rig only really helps you when the sail sizes become quite large (then it is so nice to have shorter masts and smaller sails that the split rig of ketch or schooner provide). So--with a boat under 40'...why bother with making it a ketch?

Why will you build a boat yourself rather than buy one? It takes so many hours to build a boat that unless you regular job has you making minimum wage or you are a retired person, you are likely better off simply purchasing a production boat or a used custom boat or one that someone has built to "almost done" state. Better to be sailing than building, no?

What is your timeframe for building/buying your boat and for sailing it? Will you cruise or is this for weekend and vacation use?
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Old 11-16-2011, 05:00 PM   #28
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It is shown in your link as a cutter. In the size you wish, a sloop or cutter rigged vessel would be very nice. Why go for the ketch? A split rig only really helps you when the sail sizes become quite large (then it is so nice to have shorter masts and smaller sails that the split rig of ketch or schooner provide). So--with a boat under 40'...why bother with making it a ketch?
I plan to sail mostly singlehanded for weeks without landfall including south seas. I will cruise and live aboard. Ketch split rig allows to set the safest combination of sails for all wind/seas conditions as it distributes forces that boat endures more evenly. I need to be able to take a nap without being afraid to be knocked down by a sudden blow and still making progress on the passage when I am asleep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

Why will you build a boat yourself rather than buy one? It takes so many hours to build a boat that unless you regular job has you making minimum wage or you are a retired person, you are likely better off simply purchasing a production boat or a used custom boat or one that someone has built to "almost done" state. Better to be sailing than building, no?

What is your timeframe for building/buying your boat and for sailing it? Will you cruise or is this for weekend and vacation use?
I am thinking about building a boat because I can't find the production one with the features I need:

- Steel hull

- Long /cut-out keel

- Stern-hung rudder to directly connect self-steering device

- Pronounced bowsprit

- Ketch rig

- Double steering from cockpit and from inside cabin safe from breaking waves. No pilot-house that can be smashed away by seas.

My time frame to get the boat (one way or another) is 2 years.
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