Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-17-2011, 03:52 AM   #29
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

OK, I see your logic though I don't agree with it. I happen to see steel boats as "throw away" construction. I would personally prefer an aluminum hull, a fiberglass hull, or a (traditionally planked, not plywood/cold molded) hull. Steel doesn't meet my own personal cut for a long lasting hull material. But, many people to buy and build steel boats--to each his own, as the saying goes. Are you an accomplished welder? I missed that in the post. Or, when you say you're thinking of building "yourself" do you mean hiring people to build it for you? This is often what people mean when they say they're doing something themselves.

Have you ever sailed a ketch rigged boat solo for a lengthy passage? I believe you may be making a big assumption regarding it being better than the (simpler) cutter or sloop rigged boats of this size. In the general case, I see no benefit for a boat of that small size to have a split rig. It is only when the sails become too big for one person to handle that a split rig is nice to have. Rather, you will have more rigging to deal with--more to handle alone. If your experience cruising with a ketch rigged boat is already extensive, you may have a preference for it. However, IMHO, any boat under 40-45 feet range is just not worth the additional spars and rigging. More lines, covers, stays, sails, everything to install, maintain, inspect and operate. For short-handed or solo sailing, keeping things as simple as possible will really help you to travel safely and to be less tired.

No matter the rig and hull, a good sailor will learn the nuances of the particular boat and then successfully sail that boat. There are numerous cruisers who have taken boats not suited to cruising and...well...cruised for many, many years. Don't box yourself into a corner of having to build the "perfect" boat because you can't find it. That will take longer than 2 years (most likely) even if you're already an experienced boatbuilder (and it sounds like you are not). It is very easy to end up in that corner!

You mention that you wish to have a bowsprit. Our boat has a lovely bowsprit (and a split rig, too, as it is a larger boat) but I must say that if you are concerned about solo sailing and heavy weather (you mention some drama with getting knocked down) having a bowsprit will be no comfort to you. If you have a permanent bowsprit, you will end up having to go out onto it to bring in a sail in rough seas. That will happen at some point. It will not be easy. It will not be fun. Even if you have furling gear, you will likely have a reason that at some point will require you to be on the tip of the bowsprit. In the waves, up and down, alone. Not a happy place. Don't get me wrong--we have an 11' long sprit as it is part of our boat's design. However, my husband has been out on the end, tethered into the jackline (for what good that would do...) as we've crashed through seas and he's been drenched--or as we've gone up and over big waves--he says it is like trying to get something done while on a roller coaster ride. We do not have roller furling gear, but rather we dowse and change the headsail traditionally. So, we're out there more than most would be.

What is your schedule of action? If you want to do this in 2 years--you must have an aggressive schedule to succeed in building a boat--whether it is you building it or someone building it for you. I've asked before--where are you right now? Your profile says home port of Moscow. However, you may not be there...



link to bigger image
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 08:05 AM   #30
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

OK, I see your logic though I don't agree with it.

...
Thanks for your comments and advice. I agree that you have many good points about reducing the amount of rope to handle. To answer your questions:

- I have never said that "I am going to build a boat myself". I live in Moscow and in case I decide to build a boat I will turn to a boatyard in Russia or Europe.

- So far I sailed singlehandedly many different boats from 10' to 38', and up to 43' as a crew, all rigged as Bermudian sloop. Personally for me, riffing the main on 35' - 38' boat in gusty weather is not an easy affair, when I am alone on the boat. Also, from my solo experience, Bermudian sloop is not the ultimate rig for running downwind or reaching on a high seas. That's why I am thinking about ketch rig.
__________________

__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2011, 11:39 AM   #31
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Bernard Moitessier in "Long Way" writes on hull material:

"It is commonly thought that a steel boat can't be under 30-33 ft, because she would be otherwise too heavy, as the steel plate must be at least 3 mm thick (approx. 1/8 in.) so as not to corrode through too quickly. The hulls of Ophelie, Santiano, Joshua and many other 40 ft boats destined by their owners for blue-water cruising are made of 5 mm steel. If 4 mm had been used, they would be noticeably improved from standpoint of speed and heavy weather sailing. If I were building Joshua over again, I would use 4 mm steel for the hull.

After nearly ten years' experience with Joshua, and my very favorable observations of other steel boats, I would not hesitate to build a 23 ft boat out of 2 mm (5/64 in.) steel if, for plenty of perfectly valid reasons, I now preferred a very small boat whose upkeep would be much cheaper that Joshua's. In my opinion it would be even possible to go 1.5 mm (1/16 in.) for a 20 ft. boat. Corrosion and electrolysis are no danger if proper precautions are taken.

What about aluminum alloys for small boat construction? The first problem is that a boat made of light alloy is very expensive, because of the cost of materials and skilled labor.

...

How about fiberglass for small boats? Take a tin can and a plastic container, and just kick them along a stony path for a couple of miles. No need to say more; the choice between metal and fiberglass is up to individual. But those who pick fiberglass will be especially careful around rocks. And if they have read books on sailing, they will recall that very great sailors like Slocum, Pidgeon, Voss, Bardiaux and Vito Dumas found themselves unintentionally on rocks or aground. During our four month 1965 stay in Tahiti, four yachts hit coral in the Tuamotus. Three were total wrecks within a few hours; the forth escaped with major damage thanks to the keel bolts breaking on impact, which allowed the boat to ride high on her side as far as coconut trees, after passing over the reef. More recently, a fiberglass trimaran being sailed from Tahiti to Hawaii hit a cliff on arrival. Within a few hours the biggest piece of the wreck was not over five feet long. This doesn't mean that a steel boat would have survived under the same conditions, but it would make a big difference in less drastic circumstances, on a reef, for example. Nevertheless fuberglass boats have one fantastic quality; they need practically no maintenance compared with steel or wooden boats. For that reason, I must agree that fiberglass boats can be really welcome, especially when small. And a small boat is easier to handle among coral reefs and in narrow entrances."
__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2011, 12:59 AM   #32
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Ah, yes, reefing. Always a challenge when the sail size gets big. That is the whole benefit of split rig, yes. I know a wonderful fellow who solo sails who decided that everyone should be great at something. His "something" that he decided to be great with...Reefing He said he'd reef and shake out reefs every time the winds changed hour after hour, midnight, 2 am, 3 am, who cares...all the time. The winds would change and he'd reef. Finally after re-doing his reefing lines 3 different ways and countless hundreds of reefing exercises (while he was solo sailing along the West Coast of South America) he decided he'd achieved his goal--he was an expert at reefing. Good plan

Ah, so you were

1. thinking about "having a custom boat built"

rather than

2. thinking about "building a boat"

To me, these are two very different statements. The first is that you're having a boat built by someone other than yourself (you now state this is your plan. That does make sense to me) whereas the second is stating that YOU are physically doing the work of building a boat. Misunderstanding.

Fiberglass only makes sense for production boats. Since you are not looking at production boats, then metal or wood are your best choices. My aversion to steel is personal only. I worked for many years as a structural engineer with steel pressure vessels and steel structures in transportation. I know too much about steel to be happy with maintaining it properly on my own boat. Thus, I avoided steel. And that is the way it goes with boats--we each have something we really want and we each have something we're really avoiding it seems. LOL.

There are many stories of material failures when one hits reefs, rocks, shore, whatever. On the side of steel you have the opportunity for catastrophic failure at sea if you incur corrosion (on the inside of your boat where it cannot be easily inspected) or have a weld defect of significant size for failure. This idea of "significant size" can be very, very small. You may experience a defect with a stress-induced crack growth getting to a size of 3/4" or so and then causing a split that water can ingress the hull. This does happen. If in cold waters, it happens more often since critical size of defect gets smaller with the decreased ductility of steel alloys at low temperatures. Example of that--think of the Liberty Ships during WWII. Example of a defect leaking in a cruising boat...read "Into the Light" by Dave Martin. He tells a story of sailing, with his wife and 3 children aboard their 33 ft steel sailboat, on the way to Iceland (from...?Bermuda or North Carolina? so sorry I can't recall the exact passage) and his boat began to leak. He did a repair underway and later did a weld repair once in Iceland. Interesting little side story about dealing with that leak. Steel is only as good as the original construction and the inspection and maintenance provided to it. Thus--a throw away boat. You can certainly get out sailing quickly and cheaply as possible in a steel boat though. That in itself is very appealing to many people.

Good luck with your project and getting out there cruising (or weekend sailing if that is your goal) as quickly as possible.
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2011, 01:16 PM   #33
Moderator
 
JeanneP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

To add to Brenda's comments a bit.

First, though, I want to comment that nobody is safe from making mistakes - stupid mistakes, mistakes due to inexperience, mistakes just because it was (?)Monday(?). Nobody is immune from them, and as I've said before, things happen at the worst possible time - that's what Murphy's Law is about.

Bowsprit. I was convinced that a bowsprit was a bad idea for us when we met an elderly couple whose boat was terribly beaten up on the bow. Scratches, gouges in the gelcoat and deeper; just nasty damage. When I asked what had happened, they told me that they were caught in some nasty weather and the anchor slipped down from its place on the bow and hung just at waterline, and the seas and motion of the boat swung the anchor against the hull, over and over again until the storm front passed. Until then they were afraid to go forward to retrieve and resecure the anchor. ----- Yes, there were ways to do it long before the weather calmed down, but this couple were unable to do more than just wait in the cockpit. For a single-hander of any age or level of fitness to try it alone would be very scary, IMO. Here's where a steel boat could be holed a lot faster by such a swinging anchor than a fiberglass or wood boat would be. After all our years of long-distance cruising I am keenly aware that mistakes are not just in the realm of the newbies. I have documented lots of our own in our logs long after we would have been considered "experienced." Humility just might be the best sailing lesson of all.

Roller furling headsail on a bowsprit? Wow, do bad things happen at the worst of times with roller furling. Even tied on, falling off a bowsprit would have to be a death sentence for the single-hander.

Split rig. Our Jeanneau Sun Fizz was one of the first "racer/cruisers" and was raced in the 1981 Two-Star - double-handed trans-Atlantic race - to introduce the boat to the US market. It was raced by Jeanneau and was a "cheater" - the rig was about 8' taller than what was standard for this boat from the yard. It was a fractional rig and thus required running backstays. We cruised it this way for several years before we decided to cut the mast down. It was/is a Marconi (Bermuda) rig. The mast, even after we cut it down, was still taller than for most of the 39' sloops we encountered in our cruising. For cruising we used a heavier mainsail, but it was never too heavy or unmanageable for one person to raise/lower/reef. For cruising we had three reef points rather than the two reef points that so many mainsails come with. We were knocked down quite a few times in the first years that we sailed her. Most were the result of mistakes on my(our) part, some were freak winds accelerating through passes. As I/we learned to read the wind better, these knockdowns moved to the realm of "rare". Our most successful strategy was the cruiser's mantra - reef early - if you are thinking about reefing, it's time to reef.

It is rare to see a split rig on racing boats anymore. Since in races go-fast is the most important consideration, you might reconsider your arguments in favor of a split rig. One consideration: nothing you do is going to enable you to outrun strong gales and, IMO, running downwind in gales is a scary and potentially dangerous tactic.

As for crawling your way off a lee shore, it seems to me that two sails would be difficult for a single-hander, and three sails (foresail, main and mizzen) would be even harder.

Under most circumstances, two-handed long-distance cruising is really single-handed sailing for 1/3 of the time.

There are two other threads on Cruiser Log discussing steel versus fiberglass. Here's the one I started several years ago,

Steel vs. Fiberglass as a hull material

Lastly, I can't seem to find any statistics regarding the number of sailboats lost at sea with information regarding the hull material. For that matter, I can't come up with any information on the number of sailboats out there giving any statistics on the hull material. From my own experience, steel hulls were the rare cruising boat, and in general I saw them primarily where French cruising boats were in the majority. Given the relative rarity of steel sailboats, I'm not surprised that it is easier to come up with stories of fiberglass boats being lost on reefs or other such damage than stories of such problems with steel-hulled boats.
__________________
In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

SY WATERMELON |
MV WATERMELON (New) | Cruiser's Dictionary, free ebook

= Cruiser's Dictionary, North America,
JeanneP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2011, 09:22 PM   #34
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Joshua de Bernard Moitessier

Episode 1



Episode 2



In the second part one can see a small turret / bubble? on Joshua hatch. It looks like this hatch was used to cover the cockpit. Thus cockpit gets transformed to a small cabin from where Bernard could safely steer the boat observing the seas from a small turret?
__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2011, 09:39 PM   #35
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

...

Fiberglass only makes sense for production boats. Since you are not looking at production boats, then metal or wood are your best choices.

...
Oh yes, I like wood! If I only could afford it I would go for Paul Gartside's 38 ft Double Ended Ketch:

http://store.gartsideboats.com/colle...nded-ketch-173

With all wood boat strength and beauty there are two great problems to solve:

- Find humongous funds, time and building skills resources

- Make the boat dry
__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2011, 10:50 PM   #36
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dokondr View Post

Oh yes, I like wood! If I only could afford it I would go for Paul Gartside's 38 ft Double Ended Ketch:

http://store.gartsideboats.com/colle...nded-ketch-173

With all wood boat strength and beauty there are two great problems to solve:

- Find humongous funds, time and building skills resources

- Make the boat dry
Can't speak to the first problem, however many wood boats are bone dry in side including bilge.
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2011, 09:45 AM   #37
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

...

Fiberglass only makes sense for production boats. Since you are not looking at production boats, then metal or wood are your best choices.

...
Do you know any production fiberglass boats no more then 10 - 15 years old good enough for blue water cruising?

I am not talking about old fiberglass boats such as Alberg 35, Pacific Seacruft, Allied Princes, Ocean Lord, Pearson, etc., the boats 20 or more years old. These boats are too old for today.

What production boat from year 2000 and newer can safely bring you around three horns?

There are many goods books, such "The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat" by John Vigor meticulously enumerating requirements for the offshore cruiser. However none of these books give you the brand names of modern production boats that meet these requirements. Why is that? The answer, I think, is: "Today they don't build production boats for serious offshore cruising in south seas" .

Please, correct me if I am wrong, and give the brand names of such production boats.
__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2011, 08:57 PM   #38
Moderator/Wiki Sysop
 
Istioploos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Home Port: Samos
Vessel Name: S/Y Thetis
Posts: 556
Default

Dmitri



Some time back I promised to give more details from the book (in Greek) of my friend Nikos Vartzikos who owned a Joshua with which he crossed the Atlantic singlehanded and cruised the Black Sea and Greenland. Here are some scans from his book:

Front Cover.png

[/size][/color]

I also want to add that Nikos was one of my mentors and encouraged me to undertake long singlehanded voyages.

Vasilis

Travels with S/Y Thetis
Attached Images
File Type: png S:Y Samos.png (2.27 MB, 6 views)
File Type: png Samos at Samos.png (2.36 MB, 4 views)
File Type: png Interior of Samos.png (2.85 MB, 3 views)
__________________


The World Cruising and Sailing Wiki

Help to build this free, online world Cruising Guide

Built by cruisers, for cruisers.

=Mediterranean,Black Sea,North Atlantic,Caribbean
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: Mediterranean, Black Sea, Atlantic
Istioploos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2011, 09:01 PM   #39
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Start with Hallberg-Rassey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallberg-Rassy

I will make the bold and broad statement that ANY production boat built today that was designed by the naval architect to be a blue water boat CAN take you safely around all the capes and then some. What is more questionable is whether the particular sailor can do it in a particular boat.

Side path--You may wish to re-visit your thoughts on what is "too old" for today. Some of the really old (mid-60's to late-70's) era solid fiberglass (non cored) hulls are amazingly strong. They're going today as good as they were 35-40 years ago. Further, when you get into "used" boats, IMHO the one's you'll pay too much for are the ones that are almost-brand-new but not quite. Those are the ones that the systems, sails, rigging may all be commanding too much in price vs how much life they actually have left. Whereas the older boats go for much lower prices--often because it is assumed that many things are beyond their life. Think of it like paying for the hull and getting the systems for free. On many of those older boats you can afford to replace many systems components, sails, etc, because you've paid so much less than on an "almost new" boat.

After having said ALL THAT, I cannot point you towards a particular boat. When we were looking for a serious cruising boat, we added additional constraints that you don't have (classic wooden boat by a reputable naval architect of the day (pre-1950's)) so I can't really help you with specifics of high quality, recently built, boats (unless they are wood). Find yourself a yacht broker and start looking at what's on the market. That will help you. We seriously looked for about 18 months before buying a boat (to rebuild). We looked in US, UK, Europe, and South America. We were agnostic regarding initial location of the boat as long as it was already rebuilt/strong/seaworthy or could be rebuilt where it lay.

What is your budget? By that, I don't mean what do you hope to spend--rather how much could you spend if you had to? For example, you may hope to only spend $70K US on a boat fully outfitted for cruising but you've got $200K available if you should find something more costly. Even if you don't share your budget--start thinking about it in realistic terms.

Forget about the boat for a minute--are YOU someone who is going to be sailing high risk (e.g. Southern Ocean or high latitude) solo? You keep alluding to this concept by what you write. What are your sailing experiences, to date, that bring you to the idea that you will be pushing the structural integrity of the hull by solo sailing around the worlds capes? There are a lot of really serious sailors out there cruising some challenging waters in hulls that you've seemingly written off. A music analogy is that you are presenting yourself as an amateur beginning pianist who is ignoring electric keyboards, spinets, consoles, and upright pianos with full-size soundboards but rather will only play on a grand piano of a brand that a highly successful concert pianist would own--perhaps Steinway would do--but only certain vintage, at that. Sure, you're giving up the idea of a concert grand, it's too big for your apartment...Get my drift?

Boats--

Take a look at the people cruising now. The Cruising Wiki has a list of the blogs of many cruising boats:

http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Cru...and_Narratives

You can spend hours reading these blogs and you'll get an idea of what works and what doesn't from their posts.

I would think someone else with boat-shopping experiences will come along with some helpful suggestions for you shortly here as well.

Fair winds,
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2011, 09:28 PM   #40
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Thanks for your advice, redbopeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

...

Forget about the boat for a minute--are YOU someone who is going to be sailing high risk (e.g. Southern Ocean or high latitude) solo? You keep alluding to this concept by what you write. What are your sailing experiences, to date, that bring you to the idea that you will be pushing the structural integrity of the hull by solo sailing around the worlds capes? There are a lot of really serious sailors out there cruising some challenging waters in hulls that you've seemingly written off. A music analogy is that you are presenting yourself as an amateur beginning pianist who is ignoring electric keyboards, spinets, consoles, and upright pianos with full-size soundboards but rather will only play on a grand piano of a brand that a highly successful concert pianist would own--perhaps Steinway would do--but only certain vintage, at that. Sure, you're giving up the idea of a concert grand, it's too big for your apartment...Get my drift?

...
To your analogy I will answer with real-life story. Patrick Childress of Newport, Rhode Island sailed second-hand Catalina 27' around the world after making considerable enhancements to the boat. Later he said: "People occasionally ask me what they should do to beef up their Catalina 27s for an ocean passage and I tell them: 'Buy a different kind of boat.'"

Yes, people sail all kinds of improbable boats around the world, not the boats designed for serious offshore, but the boats they have, I know that. Thanks, for reminding me. ...

Just in case you come across a modern long keel boat, please let me know.
__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2011, 09:35 PM   #41
Lieutenant
 
dokondr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Istioploos View Post

Dmitri

Some time back I promised to give more details from the book (in Greek) of my friend Nikos Vartzikos who owned a Joshua with which he crossed the Atlantic singlehanded and cruised the Black Sea and Greenland. Here are some scans from his book:
Vasilis, thanks!

I also did some research and found two videos of Joshua.
There was a turret on top of the companion hatch. On the second video at 2.10 one can see the inside wheel fitted on an extension of the shaft of the outside wheel, so the inside wheel and outside wheel are on opposite sides of the cabin end.

Joshua de Bernard Moitessier

Episode 1



Episode 2

__________________
dokondr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2011, 01:15 AM   #42
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dokondr View Post

Thanks for your advice, redbopeep.

To your analogy I will answer with real-life story. Patrick Childress of Newport, Rhode Island sailed second-hand Catalina 27' around the world after making considerable enhancements to the boat. Later he said: "People occasionally ask me what they should do to beef up their Catalina 27s for an ocean passage and I tell them: 'Buy a different kind of boat.'"

Yes, people sail all kinds of improbable boats around the world, not the boats designed for serious offshore, but the boats they have, I know that. Thanks, for reminding me. ...

Just in case you come across a modern long keel boat, please let me know.
Perhaps you are not a musician? Your Catalina 27 story is like having a concert pianist take a spinet on world tour. However, there are very few concert pianists on tour--but many more fledgling pianists dreaming of becoming concert pianists.

Please do go check out the blogs on the wiki. Most of those cruisers would not call their boats "improbable" for the task of cruising. Anything but!

However--back to YOU. Please do let us know your own plans and decisions you've made. You will be making your decision very soon if you plan on taking off cruising in 2 years. That is a very exciting thing.

Since you are going solo, you can go on a smaller boat...you might really go take a look to see what used BCC are on the market (see http://bluewaterboats.org/bristol-channel-cutter-28/) for a review. You can find fiberglass ones built in recent years. You can also find them carvel planked. A family of 4 completed the Northwest Passage in 2009 in one. Link. The "original" one designed for the Pardeys made it around all the Capes as I recall. For other bluewater boats--there are numerous reviews on that site as well. You may find something that you really like.
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need To Use Up Those Beans... Ideas? behang The Galley 12 08-10-2016 10:49 PM
I Would Like Some Opinions/ideas Greenante The Tavern | Welcome Aboard 2 12-07-2010 02:21 AM
Would Love Some Ideas Or Input! caveatemptor The Poop Deck 16 03-15-2010 05:19 AM
New Caribbean Food Minimart Ideas minimart Living Aboard 6 07-13-2009 02:04 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0