Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-23-2007, 12:34 AM   #1
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
Default

Hi all

I am in the process of looking for my perfect boat, if there is such a thing, and could use a little input even though I know it is a very subjective topic. I know my strength's and boat design is not one of them. I am gleaning as much info as I can from books and the internet and the more I read the more I realize that I may be in way over my head.

I know that the first questions you will have is what experiance do you have? Where are you going to go with the boat? What attributes are important to you? What is your budget? How much maintenance can you do and how much do you want to do? How big a boat? How many crew, if any? And I am sure you can add more but you get my drift.

I will answer the questions that I put down and if you have some of your own please feel free to ask. I have a fair bit of experiance growing up on the west coast of Canada. I am out of practice as I have spent most of my working life on the praries. Hey you gotta make a living! I am trying to get my skills current as best I can and have signed up for a cruising course this spring and will be doing as much as I can to sharpen my skills for offshore work.

I will be starting out and staying prodominently in the Carribean to start and from there who knows. One thing for sure it will be warm. Remember I am from Canada so cold is not my goal here.....ha ha

I want a safe well balanced boat that is a good performer to windward. I want a boat that can ride out bad weather and come back in one piece if I make the proper decisions. I want a boat I can single hand at times. I want a simple rig that performs well but is not a constant chore to handle.

My budget is 100 to 150 k Canadian

I have the skills and health to do alot of my own maintenace.

33-40 feet

3 people max but just me fulltime

Any how I already feel like I have got longwinded. So I will close by asking for some makes and models of boats you feel I should be looking into. Oh ya .....I have not been looking at very much on the new market. I feel that for my money I can get a good cruising home that someone has already at least partially fitted out for what I want to do.

Cheers Rob
__________________

__________________
Landlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2007, 06:46 AM   #2
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 84
Default

First question is how many years do you want to go cruising and do you have any income comming in other than your current budget?

Most people figure about $ 12000 US Dollars per year to cruise.

Your figure will get you into a new Dana 24, Picific Seacraft. Very nice for 2 people for the area that you want to go cruising that is if you have other funds to go cruising. I am sure that others will say otherwise, for me, If I am in the big blue sea and need the boat to handle bad weather, I want a boat in good enough repair to handle it. For a 20 foot Flicka, that is around $ 70000 if I do all the work.

If you want to harbor hop down to the Bahamas then a coastal cruiser will work fine as long as you have a good anchor system.
__________________

__________________
Cruising Bahamas
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2007, 08:23 AM   #3
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landlocked View Post
Hi all

I am looking for my perfect boat, One thing for sure it will be warm.

I want a safe well balanced boat that is a good performer to windward. I want a boat that can ride out bad weather and come back in one piece if I make the proper decisions. I want a boat I can single hand at times. I want a simple rig that performs well but is not a constant chore to handle.

My budget is 100 to 150 k Canadian

I have the skills and health to do a lot of my own maintenance.

33-40 feet

3 people max but just me fulltime

I have not been looking at very much on the new market. I feel that for my money I can get a good cruising home that someone has already at least partially fitted out for what I want to do.

Rob
Hi Rob,

Great project , initial ideas well balanced .

1) Make a written plan with your objectives - setting them out in terms of critical importance - with time/place/distance vs work/finance factors .

2) A good cruising sailing yacht :- Steel - 37ft x 13ft x 7ft , full keel running forward to 60% of water line - 5.5ft draft. Centre cockpit - good access to engine room - 65 hp naturally aspirated diesel engine producing 40hp at less than 2000 RPM with externally adjustable pitch prop . Aft cabin, cutter rigged sloop, oversized wire. Awning + Dodger+ Bimini. Self-tailing winches, electric anchor windless - 100ft min. chain, 50 lb plough anchor + good sand anchor. HF + VHF radio (Kenwood - Icom's small models ) Radar. Base GPS - hand held GPS . Laptop computer with navigation programs and charts. ( Extra - Hydraulic pump driving generator motor and anchor motor windless & 100lt /day watermaker) Hard Dinghy 9.9 hp O/B

3) The above should have a really good paint job - get it surveyed by a professional - pay and leave port (not on a Friday)

Fair Winds
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 07:38 AM   #4
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
Default

Thanks for responding. You both have some great input. I was thinking about a steel boat and know that from a structural standpoint and the ability to get them repaired worldwide they are great. Any big drawbacks? Are they maintenance heavy?

I am lookin at initially going " on the hook" for five years but my options are open. I can easily finance what I want to do because I am retiring with a company pension at 55 that is very comfortable........substantially more than the 12K you mentioned. That being said I have no wish to be boat poor so I don't want a boat that will nickle and dime me more than I know they all do.

What do you think of the following boats .......You will notice a bit of a theme here

Lord Nelson 33

Hans Christian 34 or 38

Topper Hermanson 33

Cape George

Island Trader

Thanks for the input........It forms part of my soon to be written plan.

Rob
__________________
Landlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 10:03 AM   #5
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landlocked View Post
Thanks for responding. You both have some great input. I was thinking about a steel boat and know that from a structural standpoint and the ability to get them repaired worldwide they are great. Any big drawbacks? Are they maintenance heavy?

I am lookin at initially going " on the hook" for five years but my options are open. I can easily finance what I want to do because I am retiring with a company pension at 55 that is very comfortable........substantially more than the 12K you mentioned. That being said I have no wish to be boat poor so I don't want a boat that will nickle and dime me more than I know they all do.

What do you think of the following boats .......You will notice a bit of a theme here

Lord Nelson 33

Hans Christian 34 or 38

Topper Hermanson 33

Cape George

Island Trader

Thanks for the input........It forms part of my soon to be written plan.

Rob
Hello Rob,

I suppose the most dangerous thing to ask any yachtie what they think about a specific design or even worse to ask what they think about a particular boat, in that whatever answer one gets there will be disagreement from owners and others. Anyway into the deep end :-

Lord Nelson :- old fashioned design - limited berth accommodation - tiller steering - overpriced

Hans Christian 34 or 38 :- Having sailed the 48 - the smaller models are heavy , need tons of wind to achieve hull speed - uncomfortable sleeping facilities - lots of brightwork, not value for money - good show off boat in a cold water marina.

Topper Hermanson 33 :- Getting to the engine is a PROBLEM - tiller steering - poor accommodation - expensive

Cape George :- Again poor sleeping accommodation - old fashioned design - The Cockpit takes up too much space for a boat that is happy in cold climates.

Island Trader :- Of the five designs selected the Island Trader comes out top. However like the others - apart from a generous sized cockpit, the interior is cramped - Also figure on spending an extraordinary amount of time on brightwork - typical of Taiwanese builds.

So Rob, going back to the original criteria for warm water - none of these designs are suitable

for cruising in the warm waters 30 degrees either side of the equator. Ventilation insufficient

to get that cool breeze into the living quarters. Light winds need designs that will move.

Getting to the engine easily, is very important.

As far as steel is concerned :- Properly treated and finished with good quality paint - maintenance not more important than is necessary with any other construction.

So search some more - Eve's partner may provide an answer.

Fair Winds
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 02:06 PM   #6
Admiral
 
atavist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vessel Name: Persevate
Posts: 548
Send a message via Yahoo to atavist
Default

I found this link very informative.

http://www.kastenmarine.com/gaff_rig.htm

And this is my dream boat... not that I'll ever be able to afford it.

http://www.kastenmarine.com/redpath.htm

Now that is a nastalgically beautiful boat.
__________________
“The world turns aside to let any man pass who knows where he is going.” (Epictetus 55 - 135 AD)

"To see new things, and live day to day, is better than wine or poppy, and fitter for a man." (Theseus)
atavist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 02:38 PM   #7
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 143
Default

Rob,

I sat in the SSCA booth at the Oakland Boat Show with folks who have cruised all over the world. One couple just returned from their 18-year circumnavigation on a Choy Lee 40. Yes, lots of bright work, but they love it--and it took them safely through the middle of the Queen's Birthday Storm. Two owned Vagabond 47's. There must have been three Hans Christians of vaying sizes. And, yes, the Hans Christian is heavy--so are the others, so is mine--but when I sailed NC waters in a Hans Christian 34 in 90+ degree July heat I had no problem--we vented and left hatches open--and I got the master berth, which I thought wonderful. So, everyone has an idea--and it's got to be what you like, what makes you comfortable. From just the list of those I met in the SSCA booth (Seven Seas Cruising Assn.), you can see that a number of people cruise with joy in boats that others will scoff at as too heavy with too much bright work. If you don't mind doing bright work (I don't), and you don't mind not being the fastest boat across the sea, and you don't mind not pointing quite as high as the fin keel boat next to you, then there's nothing wrong with going for a heavy girl who'll treat you well on the seas. Larry Pardey said something interesting about buying a boat that is designed to sail when weighted so it won't become more sluggish after you've loaded all the stores. I wish you could go on their boat...what a work of art.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is go sailing with as many people as you can on as many different boats as possible. I had a certain idea when I started looking. It changed as I read and sailed with others. Have a wonderful search!

Normandie
__________________
SeaVenture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 01:00 AM   #8
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,727
Default

Philosophy was never my strongpoint, but I was always impressed that once you are out there sailing, you are 'doing it', irrespective of the rate at which you are approaching your destination.

It seems to me that if you take from the equation the speed at which you travel, all other considerations relative to voyaging favour the slower boat when on a passage. Sailboat speed will rarely be the factor in helping you avoid a storm at sea, and even when crossing an ocean the difference between a 'fast' and 'slow' boat will not, in the grand scheme of things, make that much difference in time.

My tried and true system for ending up with the right boat remains almost as simple as that which is enclosed beneath my hat ..... Buy the boat you fall in love with, then do a little tinkering.

Best wishes

David.

PS. Come to think of it, that's the same system my beautiful girl used to get hold of me. Except she reckons it was more major overhaul, than a bit of tinkering that turned me into the fine.....er.....hmmmm........
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 04:27 PM   #9
Ensign
 
ExCalif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Default

I am a complete newbie and also I am never good at "makes and models" Whether boats cars or whatever. Some folks are encyclopedic in their knowledge of different models. However, I am a bit of a data and stat nut. My wife bought me a book years ago titled, "The Liveaboard Report" by Charlie Wing. It is basically a compilation of survey data for over 400 liveaboards. It's over 120 pages but here is an interesting summary of what people currently live on - recognize that this is 1993 data so it's getting quite dated.

Length on Deck - 38 ft. average

Hull material - Fiberglass (80%)

Draft - 4-6 feet (70%)

Rig - Sloop (44%) Cutter (35%)

Spinnaker on board? - No (64%)

Furling Jib? - Yes (85%)

Dodger or Pilot House? - Yes (95%)

Bimini? - Yes (93%)

Most popular engines - Volvo, Yanmar, Perkins

Horsepower - below 34 feet about 1hp per foot. Above 34 feet about 1.5hp per foot

Fuel Capacity - Below 36 feet owners wished for about 50% more fuel than originally installed regardless of boat.

Total Electrical Storage (batteries) - 408 Ah

Most common electrics - Depth sounder, Autopilot, VHF, Loran (I assume gps these days ;-), Stereo, television

Water capacity - Averages about 60 gallons

Now of course these are averages and as we all know there is no such thing as an average boat ;-)

At the least it is a nice list to organize your thoughts around the different things one might consider. Of course data doesn't begin to talk about the looks, feel and handling of a sailboat and that's why there are so many makes and models, I suppose.

As a final thought - The above data is what the respondents have. Here is what the survey respondents said they wanted in their "next" boat.

Length - 39 feet 8 inches

Hull material - Fiberglass (75%)

Rig - Cutter (56%)

Roller Jib - Yes (85%)

Bimini? - Yes (93%)

Diesel Power? - 43 hp

Fuel capacity - 130 gallons

Range under power - 1,222 nm

Battery Capacity - 520 Ah

Water Capacity - 175 gallons

I certainly would be curious to see what that boat looks like ;-) Perhaps a bit like a fuel, water and battery transporter - LOL.

Cheers
__________________
ExCalif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 10:04 PM   #10
Admiral
 
atavist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vessel Name: Persevate
Posts: 548
Send a message via Yahoo to atavist
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzee View Post
My tried and true system for ending up with the right boat remains almost as simple as that which is enclosed beneath my hat ..... Buy the boat you fall in love with, then do a little tinkering.
The only problem with that philosophy as I see it, at least for me, is that I could very easily be inclined to fall in love with a completely impractical old boat... say a beautiful but half rotten old gaff rigged schooner... the lines and styling of the boats speak of a by-gone era and call to a completely impractical side of me that would enjoy the labor of love that she would be.... on the other hand the rational side of me realizes that something more along the lines of a nice 41' Beneteau would be much more comfortable, and lower maintenance....

(sigh) I guess as with all things in life it's the heart versus the brain...
__________________
“The world turns aside to let any man pass who knows where he is going.” (Epictetus 55 - 135 AD)

"To see new things, and live day to day, is better than wine or poppy, and fitter for a man." (Theseus)
atavist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 09:56 AM   #11
Ensign
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Default

The problems with buying a new boat is that whatever you get it will be the best you've ever had. Trouble is, 5 years later you'll be looking at something with a couple more feet...and 5 years after that... ad infinitum (bet you didn't know I could speak French ). Now please remember I'm someone who's moving up from a 21 foot tub (although I did love it dearly) to something twice the length. I'm working on the theory that I won't want to 'upgrade' for the rest of my sailing life. Please pay no attention to my advice except for the bit about "the next boat you get will be the best you've ever had".

Happy sailing , John
__________________
Muroc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 08:40 PM   #12
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9
Default

Thank you all for your input. I was blown away by the response. Great stats ExCalif. Yah I know what you guys mean by getting sucked in by a gorgeous item just to find out that under what you thought was perfect and romantic is something flawed and high maintenance. ( yes I am divorced ) Sorry that was not a shot at marriage in general, just mine. Amazing how the process of buying a boat mirrors that of finding a mate. HMMMMMMMMMMM

Ok besides the obvious what is the drawback to tiller steering. I can see there being advantages to assisted wheel steering in bigger boats but at what size does this play in? I have steered both and saw the differences in some small keel boats, but what are the problems and plus's as you hit the mid 30's range?

Keep that great info rolling in when you can I am really enjoying it and am learning a lot.

Keep your stick on the ice !!

Rob
__________________

__________________
Landlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Outboard Choices Muse41 Other Equipment 3 03-01-2009 01:21 PM
Tv Antenna Choices Wildernesstech Living Aboard 1 08-20-2008 02:09 AM
Inverter Choices... Wildernesstech General Cruising Forum 2 05-15-2008 11:09 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0