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Old 12-15-2008, 04:16 AM   #1
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I'm sure you could cruise around the Caribbean in just about anything if you really wanted to, but realisticly, is a 30' catalina sloop an ok boat to cruise on if your fine with the small size? How about taking a boat like that outside the caribbean, like from the caribbean to australia, or fiji?
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:57 AM   #2
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I'm sure you could cruise around the Caribbean in just about anything if you really wanted to, but realisticly, is a 30' catalina sloop an ok boat to cruise on if your fine with the small size? How about taking a boat like that outside the caribbean, like from the caribbean to australia, or fiji?
You might want to check out this discussion on an earlier CL topic:

link
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:24 PM   #3
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More than what the boat is capable of. Is what is the skipper capable of? People having taken the most unlikely craft around the world, and crossed oceans. A good skipper can take just about anything anywhere. A badf skipper can lose the finest boat in calm seas.......i2f
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:52 PM   #4
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Link to Atom. A 28' Triton that made 2 circumnavigations (One, I believe, without engine or power):

http://www.atomvoyages.com/

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Old 12-17-2008, 05:45 AM   #5
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Link to Atom. A 28' Triton that made 2 circumnavigations (One, I believe, without engine or power):

http://www.atomvoyages.com/

Bajamas
A Triton is a very different boat than a Catalina...the first boat over 14' that I sailed on was a Triton. Very sound little boat. Can't say the same for the small Catalinas.
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:51 PM   #6
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First of all, it is not a matter of size! There were times when a boat of 30ft was a normal size to take on extended cruises.

So, it is just a matter of comfort and maybe luxury that lets sailors choose bigger boats nowadays.

Back in the 70ies and 80ies many boats of around 30ft were built for offshore sailing, today built boats of this size are most times light weight coastal cruisers with spacious interiors and in fact good sailing performance in decent conditions that meet the weekenders needs (sailing a couple hours and then tying up an the marina for the night..)

And I did not know the 28' Triton before. What a nice little rugged boat!

Cheers

Uwe

perfectly content with 32ft

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Old 12-17-2008, 06:38 PM   #7
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There were times when a boat of 30ft was a normal size to take on extended cruises.

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If you want a wonderful bluewater boat that is small--find a Rawson 30! They're great, solid, and can go anywhere you'd like to take them. We were privileged to own on for two years and can attest to the seaworthiness of the design. Further, they're often inexpensive (may require some "fix up") ranging in price from $5K to $35K depending upon condition, electronics, etc.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:23 AM   #8
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Catalina's are always under rated. Get a self steer, some solar panels, a bimini and dodger and start in the Caribbean. The learning curve is steep and after a couple of overnighters you'll understand the plus and minus of the boat. I've learned over the years, Sail what you got.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:27 PM   #9
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Catalina's are always under rated. Get a self steer, some solar panels, a bimini and dodger and start in the Caribbean. The learning curve is steep and after a couple of overnighters you'll understand the plus and minus of the boat. I've learned over the years, Sail what you got.
"under rated?" No, many folks think highly of the Catalinas--just not for cruising. I know many people who love their small Catalinas for what they are--an inexpensive boat that is great for the Wednesday night harbor races and great for weekend trips and mild coastal cruising. They are by no means built to withstand the rigors of long passages involving ocean crossing and someone who pushes one into real cruising service is likely to be disappointed as these boats won't hold up over time to the punishment of the long distance cruising environment. It's just not what they were built for.

One can easily get a better small cruising vessel for the same money as a Catalina. If one already owns a Catalina, I'd still suggest selling and getting into a different small boat designed for cruising. If someone hands you a Catalina 30 on a silver platter, fully outfitted for cruising with every bell and whistle...maybe...nah...just sell it--they're easy to sell since everyone knows what they are and they're a respectable boat--and take the money to find a real cruising boat.
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:29 AM   #10
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"under rated?" No, many folks think highly of the Catalinas--just not for cruising. I know many people who love their small Catalinas for what they are--an inexpensive boat that is great for the Wednesday night harbor races and great for weekend trips and mild coastal cruising. They are by no means built to withstand the rigors of long passages involving ocean crossing and someone who pushes one into real cruising service is likely to be disappointed as these boats won't hold up over time to the punishment of the long distance cruising environment. It's just not what they were built for.
You are of course welcome to your opinion. However a large number of Catalina sailboats are rated by the ABYC as Category "A" - Ocean including the Catalina 30 MK III.

See http://www.catalinayachts.com/certif.cfm

I will not argue about the merits of a Catalina vs other designs. However it is incorrect to say "It's just now what they were buit for."
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:11 PM   #11
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Of course the Catalina can sail the oceans - as most sailboats have proven -

However, very few Catalinas (and there are many) under 40ft that are found cruising the oceans. Whatever the reason, the fact is that they are not to be seen in anchorages, marinas - or in broker's listings outside the USA.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:15 PM   #12
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it is incorrect to say "It's just now what they were buit for."
Looking into it--you're right, technically, the Catalina 30 (MK III and others) were actually built for cruising. That's amazing to me since here in So Cal where there are many, many, many Catalinas sailing, no one that I know of... including Catalina owners...thinks of these boats as real cruising boats. But rather as fun weekend boats that one can also do a little coastal cruising in.

From my interaction with numerous Catalina owners, I always figured the boats were marketed for the weekend sailor/coastal cruiser. Live and learn...

Oh, and now that I look at it, the Catalina 30 is actually a 34' boat! more learning...It seems they jump from the 27 which IS 27' LOA to the 30 which is 34' LOA...must be a 30' waterline? Who'd have known...
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:11 AM   #13
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Looking into it--you're right, technically, the Catalina 30 (MK III and others) were actually built for cruising. That's amazing to me since here in So Cal where there are many, many, many Catalinas sailing, no one that I know of... including Catalina owners...thinks of these boats as real cruising boats. But rather as fun weekend boats that one can also do a little coastal cruising in.

From my interaction with numerous Catalina owners, I always figured the boats were marketed for the weekend sailor/coastal cruiser. Live and learn...

Oh, and now that I look at it, the Catalina 30 is actually a 34' boat! more learning...It seems they jump from the 27 which IS 27' LOA to the 30 which is 34' LOA...must be a 30' waterline? Who'd have known...
I am not sure that I disagree with you analysis of the target market for Catalina. I would expect that it is reassuring to most purchasers that the boats are "sturdy" (for lack of a better term.) On the other hand the large open salon area, limited tankage, and limited storage space would suggest boats more suitable for short pleasant cruises.

We do multi-day racing in our Catalina 42 two cabin. At least one stateroom and one head are turned into storage space for extra sails and crew gear. Conditions in the Great Lakes can get very severe (as the "Mouth of the South" found out) and I have never questioned the seaworthness of my Catalina. On the other hand my previous boat was a steel hulled Bruce Roberts Offshore 44. I loved the cutter rig and the center cockpit and having a steel hull was very reassuring.

I know of families of 4 that have gone offshore for long periods (including circumnavigations) in the 42. I think they must get very good at the old adage "a place for everything and everything in its place."

BTW, thanks for pointing out you are in SoCal. In Milwaukee it is 41 degrees and sleeting. Isn't life grand!
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:39 PM   #14
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Up and down the Caribbean for 5 years, Florida, Cuba and onto Grenada. Must have been up and down at least twice a year and you will be surprised to see how many Catalina's are out there. Remember, Morgan's after 1996 are all technically Catalina's. Hell, we saw a guy sail a 35 C&C from Europe. 35 gals of water and 20 of diesel. It's what you make of it. Tell me where the boat will fail. The hull is solid, add ons should be well backed, and the rest is comfort.
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:27 PM   #15
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Up and down the Caribbean for 5 years, Florida, Cuba and onto Grenada. Must have been up and down at least twice a year and you will be surprised to see how many Catalina's are out there. Remember, Morgan's after 1996 are all technically Catalina's. Hell, we saw a guy sail a 35 C&C from Europe. 35 gals of water and 20 of diesel. It's what you make of it. Tell me where the boat will fail. The hull is solid, add ons should be well backed, and the rest is comfort.
The hull is solid? The only failures I know of are on the smaller Catalinas (27's and 30's) and they relate to localized fatigue, e.g. cracking in the fiberglass on deck where things are bedded including travellers. Also, one boat I know of was used a lot for coastal cruising and had fatigue related hull problems with bulkhead and deck; I have no idea if it was tabbing or something else. Finally, there are a variety of keel and rudder configurations offered on the smaller Catalinas--none of them a "traditional" full keel with keel hung rudder that many cruisers perfer. I know of two cases where there was a minor (very minor in both cases) grounding that ended up with serious leaking because the interface between keel and hull was breached. One of those was a boat that the son grounded but didn't tell Dad and Dad discovered the problem a couple days out from So. Cal on his way to HI. Had to turn around and come back to deal with the huge leaking. Later found out it was also a very minor grounding--boat skimmed over a sand bar--and son didn't expect there to have been a problem.

It seems that the systems are fine as in most production boats--though as you note small tankage--but that the hull and deck may be a bit bendy to have such fatigue related problems.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:16 PM   #16
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I think (and my opinion is obviously slightly biased) that Catalina's make great cruising boats. I have sailed one of our WindPath Catalina 400 MKII's over 3,000 miles offshore, including 3 days in late November in 47 knots in the gulf stream. The boat did great, some of the crew were not so happy… Catalina's are solidly built well designed boats. While they may not come with all the bells and whistles one might want for extended passage making, very few boats do. I would have no problem taking the new Catalina 309 for an extended cruise.

I also suggest taking a look at the "Catalina Offshore Cruisers Hall of Fame" here:

http://catalinayachts.com/hof.cfm

Some Voyages of note:

The circumnavigation of the "Juggernaut"; a solo circumnavigation in a Catalina 27

The voyage of the "Figment II"; 3 years in the stormy north sea on a Catalina 320
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:22 AM   #17
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Thanks for your post WindPath. Its always good to read up on stories of people who have done amazing things in small boats--it lets you know that you don't have to have a huge boat to voyage widely. Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a Small Income really discusses this point.

The Catalina 400 MKII is a good sized boat--40-41 feet or so right? With size a lot of things do improve and I would certainly hope that one could enjoy cruising the boat you reference offshore. The prices on these boats given a quick google search seem to range from $150K US to $240K US at this time, used. That's a lot of money and hopefully alot of boat.

Our cruising boat is 54' and has a traditional planked wooden hull--yet I would not consider cruising on a wooden boat of 30' as it is really difficult to fit everything in as a wooden boat's frames and overall construction generally make it smaller inside than a similarly sized fiberglass hull. It would be like cruising on a 25-26 ft boat in most cases and likely fairly challenging to provision properly and carry adequate safety gear.

The original topic was the question of whether one could do an extended cruise in a 30 ft Catalina Sloop. You reference the 309. A "used" but this year model 2009 Catalina 309 is a $100K boat according to marinesource.com. That's also a pretty hefty price. Now, there are older Catalinas out there in the 30'-33' range with prices from $7K on up to $100K plus--but dollar for dollar on the older used boats, I do believe the small Catalinas don't fare well in condition nor real cruising performance for the price. JMHO. A Catalina does seem to hold its value quite nicely. Thus the performance for price never works out quite as well as some other boats. If you want to have a boat for a year or two and then flip it, a Catalina might be just the boat to suit the purpose.

When we moved out from the east coast to San Diego to work on the major rebuild of our cruising boat, we decided we wouldn't be able to handle not having a boat for a couple years (length of expected rebuild). We (ourselves and through our surveyor and our broker) looked and considered many boats to own for just two years...including a couple Catalinas in the 40-50' range that were priced from $50K-$150K. We were advised by surveyors and brokers that we'd be very likely to sail a Catalina for a couple years and sell it for exactly what we had in it as they hold their value quite nicely in So. Cal.

Ah, but then we saw a great deal on a little Rawson 30--a bit of a quirky little boat designed by Bill Garden specifically for cruising. With only about 260 of them built from the early 60's through around 1980, they're not well known and really don't hold their value--likely due to their obscurity. Ah, but what a "bang for the buck" one gets with something like a Rawson 30 when it comes to a cruising boat. They pop up for prices between 5K and 40K, most at around $15K. And, as far as we can tell from owning one for two years--they're built like a tank for cruising. There are numerous other small boats built for cruising between the mid-60's to early 90's that offer great potential as well.

So, yes, one might happily take a 30' Catalina cruising especially if one already owns one, loves it, knows its good points and bad...but if one is going off to find a small cruising boat to purchase--like the originator of this thread--the Catalina doesn't rank high on the list of most boat for a given dollar to purchase for cruising.
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:31 AM   #18
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As I said before, I'm a little biased, but I will have to respectfully disagree with you.

In a sense you have helped me make my point. You pointed out how well Catalina's retain thier value in the used boat market, in my opinion this is because they are well built, sturdy boats that have stood the test of time. Catalina has built more of the 30 then any other boat in its lineup; the numbers really speak for themselves.

Boats like the Rawson 30 are solid, heavy boats designed and over-built to handle heavy weather and big waves.

As most modern cruisers and books will argue there is a big trade off between speed and seaworthiness in open water and big weather; i.e. moderate vs. heavy displacement. The question for any particular sailor evaluating these two very different types of boats then becomes do you want to try to outrun the weather, or sit through it "comfortably".

I'd prefer to be at the dock with a rum drink, but to each his own...

Just to clarify, Catalina stopped production of the 30 in 2007 and introduced the "309" to replace it. We have 2 in our fractional sailing program and they are great boats that can take the abuse our type of program can dish out in stride. The 309 (redesigned 30) actually won Cruising World’s best overall boat of the year when it was introduced in 2007.

If I were looking for a solid 30 footer to live and cruise on I would not knock the Catalina 30 or 309 off the list until the very end, if at all. For what you get for the money it is an exceptional boat.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:47 AM   #19
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ummm... we're not disagreeing, its just that cruisers typically have a fixed budget and well, budget is budget and "bang for the buck" is...well...what do you get for that money? The Catalina brand and recognition of that brand has value to folks in the business of selling boats. I agree with you about the value of the name recognition of Catalina. I would certainly use that value if it were to my advantage--e.g. if I were selling yachts or knew I'd be owning a boat for a short time and re-selling it. However, brand value is simply that-- recognition that can equate to resale value but it doesn't necessarily equate to increased performance. That is where the boat buyer really does need to look at the individual boat.

Established brands have a wonderful way of continuing to retain value solely based on name recognition and not on performance. When I was doing an executive MBA about 10 years ago, we had a great example of this in a marketing class--the professor asked the group of 105 students the question: "who owns a Toyota Camry?" and found that one student did. Then he asked how many had owned a Toyota Camry in the past...and discovered that 10 more had owned one in the past. Then he asked the single Camry owner if she would buy one again...she said no, her next car would be something else. And similarly none of the Camry owners would ever purchase a Camry again. Ah, but the Toyota Camry at the time was a very popular car--supposedly with great brand loyalty--but it seems that it's brand recognition was really selling the car AND that the car really only suits a very small percentage of the people who purchase the Camry--thus, a great car, great brand, great price, great everything...but people tended not to buy them again after owning them. In the meanwhile, Toyota sells a lot of Camry cars

Brand isn't everything. Its a great starting point. Cruisers, generally on a budget, have to look at what they're really getting for their money--and if they really look into things they will likely bypass Catalina yachts for another yacht that offers the same or better performance at a better price.

Regarding speed--when you have a 30' boat, you're going nowhere fast unless you're on a lightweight multihull 30' is 30', waterline is waterline...and though a full keel boat will have more wetted surface and it should make a difference, I surprisingly haven't seen a lot of 30' Catalinas (um...outfitted for cruising...not the beer can races) outperform well designed full keel boats intended to carry the load of cruising. A few tenths of a knot isn't going to help you get out of the way of a storm. A knot or two isn't going to help a whole lot either. But, a boat designed for heavy weather will help one survive some awful storms. Further, a boat (with any type of keel) designed for the load it will be expected to carry is likely to be balanced and is likely to be able to point up closer to the wind--even if the overall design can't point as high as compared to a lightly loaded lighter displacement hull. When clawing your way off a lee shore, I'm sure you're likely to be grateful if your boat isn't overloaded and if it working within the expectations of its designers.

I'd think that being in the Catalina Yacht value chain in any way is a rewarding career to have. Congratulations. I do also think they're great boats for a lot of people--and surely we do find folks around the US coastal cruising with their Catalina yachts and crossing oceans as well. I wouldn't...but then again that's because we each have our own vision of what our voyaging life should be--that's what makes living aboard and cruising a rewarding life to have.

Fair winds
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:19 PM   #20
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Looking into it--you're right, technically, the Catalina 30 (MK III and others) were actually built for cruising. ...
If You want to know about sailing a catalina contact capt. woody ( lattitudes and attitudes magazine) I met him in rangaroa when he was on his 27' Tell him Mark from last penny says hi.
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