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Old 08-04-2007, 12:24 PM   #1
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Timing's all wrong cos I'm planning to crew across the Pacific from LA via Mexico to NZ in the coming year but I keep coming back (in my dreams) to the cat-ketch as an attractive option - good size/layout coupled with shorthanded capability, good down/reasonable upwind, low pressure ketch rig, reducing rigging maintenance etc.

All might be different, of course, when I eventually get to the point of buying rather than simply dreaming but, in the meantime, I'd be really interested to learn how you feel about this rig in general and, if you have a moment or two:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boa...=75470&url=

which looks like a pretty good, reasonably priced, maybe exceptional example of a Freedom 44 - other, of course, than the name!

There are other marques, of course, and search of the same site will throw up a good few Freedoms and a couple of Tantons around this size. One of the latter uses the original wishbone booms which my instincts suggest is a good good rather than bad option but ... who am I to know without help?

I seem to remember starting a topic about alternative rigs ages ago and got some interesting if slightly sceptical response. As the savings slowly increase and I move toward actually buying, I guess that the decision is just going to get harder. Maybe, I've just got to go conventional and a bit smaller - an Island Packet or some such - but, first, I've gotta scratch this particular itch!

Thanks for your time and, hopefully, interest; see ya!

Peter
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Old 08-04-2007, 07:31 PM   #2
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I could not get the link to work (something about session ID I think).

However, if you search www.yachtworld.com yachts for sale:

Design: Freedom

Length: 44 feet

Boat type: all sail

you will find 4 x Freedom 44s

They have two carbon fibre masts with no stays, and just a mainsail on each mast.
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:20 PM   #3
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Sorry about the link; no idea why it failed the first time but thanks for trying again. I too am fascinated by what some of the less convention - more traditional - rigs have to offer and, as interesting as the discussions become, often confused (and frustrated) by the complexity of even the simplest stayed rigs.

At 61, this will be my first boat and, having come to the sailing party late, I believe that I need to find a vessel that I can not only handle safely now but which will meet most if no all my living and sailing needs for the duration.

Sailing solo on longer passages is not something to which I'm currently attracted or, indeed, equipped. I'm also not blessed with a partner who wants to go sailing with me (can you hear the violins playing?) so shorthanded capability is more to do with being able to deal with shorter passages when I might only be able to find relatively inexperienced crew or want/need to sail her single handed.

Maybe it's just a matter of getting out there and doing it but, while I'm reasonably confident in handling smaller conventionally rigged boats on my own, I'd really like to have something in the 45ft range to make living aboard that much more comfortable when not actually sailing.

As always in life, it's a question of achieving the right balance or something approximating to it

See ya!

Peter.
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:37 PM   #4
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Duckie

Never thought I'd address anyone in this way let alone on a web forum but, moving on ...

....the link provided which seems to work intermittently was actually to one of the Freedom 44s on Yachtworld; the one called "Frog Kiss".

There's also a well equipped Freedom 39 PH (in the UK) with a freestanding schooner rig in which I'm sort of interested.

Thanks for looking; whadya think?

Peter
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:49 PM   #5
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The link does not work for me either.
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:08 PM   #6
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Hi Peter,

Happy birthday

Frog's Kiss, looks like a nice yacht. Personally, I am not a fan of the appearance of the Freedom rig, but that's a personal statement and in no way should it be taken as a sleight against the performance of these popular yachts.

Two aquaintances in Darwin have Freedoms. Both swear by them as a good performing, yet easily shorthanded yacht. Both sailors have singlehanded them internationally and have nothing but praise for them.

I think the 44, considering its LWL (39'6") must be close to 44 LOD (particularly as the bow sprit is retractable).

Best wishes for a speedy choice.

David
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:35 PM   #7
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Hello Peter - Happy Birthday !!

Having crewed on a Freedom in a couple of regattas - agree that they are a pleasure to sail. Good boat generally.

Couple of comments regarding FROG KISS :-

Well fitted out ! But the broker makes no comment about the overall condition ?

Boat built 1982 - 13 years later engine given major overhaul . A further 12 years have elapsed, possibly means the engine may be tired or worse.

The masts will need a specialist survey to the extent of examining them on-shore.

Richard
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiAussie View Post
Don't know much about carbon fiber masts (except that they're meant to be "light & strong" (with exception to ex CarboSpars AeroRig)), but are you saying that "carbon fiber" masts must be removed from the boat to satisfy the survey examination?
What was said, was "The masts will need a specialist survey to the extent of examining them on-shore."

The reason for the comment was that if these free standing masts have been on this boat for 25 years - then it would be prudent and reasonable to give them special attention during survey - to do this effectively and thoroughly it is necessary to remove the masts for a very close up inspection. Although carbon fibre is light and very strong , the earlier CF masts showed signs of fatigue after 4 or 5 years - especially the white carbon fibre masts. Therefore, to evaluate almost microscopic areas of possible fatigue whilst sitting in a bosun's chair 30ft up the mast may prove to be easy but not efficient.

Another reason for special attention, is unlike stayed masts, the Freedom masts flex continuously during sailing,

and it is this flexing that can give problems - therefore if someone is considering buying a 25 year old boat to cruise the oceans, the cost of a good thorough survey may turn out to be the best money spent on that boat . However, notwithstanding the above comments - carbon fibre masts and other CF components have come a long since the 80's.

Hope that answered your question ?

Richard
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiAussie View Post
Yikes! That would mean cutting the deck (around the masts) & detaching the masts from the hull & any bulkheads & transporting them to a workshop (for inspection).
Interesting, where did you get that impression ?
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiAussie View Post
Do freestanding carbon masts not go through the deck? Boat designs I've seen for freestanding aluminum masts go through the deck & are attached to bulkheads.
Hello There,

Nothing further to add on the subject ? Your sources may be able to answer your questions.
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:19 AM   #11
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The only problem that I see is you are not going now or in the near future. If it is not real for you to leave in the next few years with that boat, you may want to scale down to get into something that will take you somewhere now.

A few months on the water now might better.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:08 PM   #12
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Kiwiaussie,

Certainly not offensive or sarcastic to me - rather supportive and interested - thanks for your help!

I guess that this could all change when you realise that I'm an England supporter so ...... here's to lottery wins, happy, safe sailing and a damn fine RWC!

See ya

Peter
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