Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-14-2013, 04:13 PM   #1
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default Dreamers...little do they know



What they're in for, that is. Sure they're thinking of the sailing, the ports, lovely sunsets on the water. They're not thinking about the gear breaks, regular maintenance, and details of just keeping things ship-shape.

Hubby and I have spent the past couple days working on projects outside with tools strewn all about us. We're sitting on a visitors dock where everybody must pass us to get to their boats. Loads of watchers. So many are dreaming of when they too will take off and enjoy a life afloat.

Ha! don't the wonder about us spending days and days working on projects under their noses before heading back out again? Blissful dreamers, they look on and tell the most amazing stories of what they're going to do "someday." Because we've been in and out of this marina and this port over the last 4 years, we know some of these sailors and their boats quite well. When we learn that they still, in 4 years, haven't been able to do the small stuff (compared to what we do almost monthly on our boat) needed in maintenance to sail out of the harbor to the near-shore island, we really wonder if they've thought things through. Sigh. Each of us has a dream.

Good thing part of our own dream was indulging our hobby of "fixing things"! because if we didn't already like projects, our dream would have become a nightmare.
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 03:21 AM   #2
Admiral
 
haiqu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Home Port: Sydney
Vessel Name: Keppelena & Shenoa
Posts: 1,378
Default

Certainly I've noticed that there are a lot of people who buy newer yachts to avoid having to learn maintenance. The range of skills required for cruising is daunting and many just stay on inshore waters and play around in club events to keep within their safety zone.

I have a profound respect for cruisers these days. It's not as easy as it looks, and buying a cheap boat really can be the expensive option when repairs and time are taken into consideration. However the experience of renewing antiquated systems and knowing where everything is and how it works is worthwhile. And there are some boats that just aren't available in fantastic condition for any amount of money.
__________________

__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen

I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: All sections
haiqu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 09:01 PM   #3
Admiral
 
atavist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vessel Name: Persevate
Posts: 548
Send a message via Yahoo to atavist
Default

The question is what you are willing to do without...

one of my friends Lee bought his boat for 5K, a nice little 28ft bruce roberts gaffer.... put about 1k into a new mast (steel pipe) and rig (galvanized) and a 4hp used outboard and set off with just a coleman camp stove and used sails... he's been out there now for about 6 years.... whenever I check in he's always somewhere new... no frills... but he's out there sailing and seeing the world...

That's pretty much the way we intend to go... smallish boat, trim tab windvane system, and a diesel outboard... no frig or complicated electrics. to break.

the more you have the more it has a hold on you.
__________________
“The world turns aside to let any man pass who knows where he is going.” (Epictetus 55 - 135 AD)

"To see new things, and live day to day, is better than wine or poppy, and fitter for a man." (Theseus)
atavist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 11:20 PM   #4
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Simple is good, yes. Even with simple there is maintenance though. The smaller the boat, the faster that maintenance will go though.

We have an odd assortment of complicated and simple aboard. It works for us. Some of the things which one is stuck with having (to be safe) on a larger boat? A powered anchor windlass, some sort of aux engine (e.g. inboard diesel), some sort of autopilot or windpilot.
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2013, 02:47 PM   #5
member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Home Port: Chicago
Posts: 3
Default To the OP

Pat yourself on the back. As though you never "dreamed" prior to becoming a cruising god. I love how you assume you are the only person with tools and knowledge of their use. You are truly special. We should all bow down and worship you!
You ever think that all this endless maintenance is because your boat is junk or maybe you just dont know how to properly sail it?
There are many "dreamers" with more experience than most current cruisers will ever have. Think about that the next time you feel elite and try to deter new folks from casting off their dock lines to enjoy some small portion of their slave like lives to the system.
__________________
MikieG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 02:23 AM   #6
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,727
Default

Ah Mikie! It is never wise to rush into print before first researching the subject of your discourse. Most posters here are serious sailors, or people working toward that goal. We leave the negative comments generally to forums which preach sarcasm, bigotry and BS.

In the post to which you refer, you slander two very humble, yet highly experienced cruisers who, with a degree of craftsmanship rarely found, are keeping a beautiful old wooden ship in pristine condition as they fulfil their cruising dreams.

Dreamers gain experience by becoming doers and a quick look through the hundreds of titles in this forum will very quickly show you that we encourage and assist wherever we can in order to provide whatever small service we can offer which will make the transition from dreamer to active sailor as easy as possible.

You hold a rare distinction! Very few people who contribute to this forum introduce themselves in the manner which you have. I invite you to look through the boards here and to then either use the resources to your advantage, or if you have specific knowledge which will be of benefit to the cruising community, to provide it in the spirit of assistance which has become our hallmark.

If your aim is merely to criticise, there are places on the 'net which would better suit your personality. If your aim is to help other sailors, then we welcome you and expect to see more positive comments in the future. Either way, your comments above have branded you in a particular way, and an apology would not go amiss.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 03:24 AM   #7
member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Home Port: Chicago
Posts: 3
Default Dreamers

I have noticed there to be a better than thou mentality within the sailing community. I saw nothing that resembled your eloquent discription of the OP.
It was nothing more than a post designed to discourage and belittle "dreamers".
This is why outsiders refer to us sailers as snobs.
I take offense to this because i personally choose to do so. On the other hand if one chooses to take offense at my observation, then they might try to change what i observe.
Thank you for intervening. I do enjoy your contributions so.
__________________
MikieG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2013, 07:07 PM   #8
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Interesting posts. Thanks for the loyal defenses Auzzee. And Mike, I don't like the style of delivery of your message, but thanks for alerting me to the fact that some of our readers do not understand what I was saying and I should expand upon it here.

I love dreamers. I am a dreamer. I mention in my original post that it's a good thing our dream includes fixing things. I generally like fixing things. Satisfying to work with your hands and achieve a good outcome. You can read a post on my blog about cruisers/dreamers here. I call them "happy doers" in my post. The photo in the post is a ferro hulled schooner sailing; it was built by hand over many years by her owners. They are both dreamers and doers.

I do not consider my hubby and I any more--or less--special than all the dreamers out there who are also the "doers" of things. Any/all cruisers know the drill--go places, use the equipment aboard and some things will eventually wear out or break. New boat, old boat, high quality components, or low--they eventually must be replaced.

Nothing special going on here with us in terms of good or bad--just the normal work of keeping things going that can be more than most dreamers want to deal with. If you're a cruiser and going places, you've either got the skills and inclination to fix things yourself or the money to pay for it, or both. You're also constantly fixing things--it goes with the territory. If a potential cruiser believes their boat will be different than the rest, that particular person might wish to start a topic here on CL to explore the facts. There are many ways to increase reliability but no magic bullets that I'm aware of.

My post was written that particular day in May because I was tired of seeing the same people over a multi-year period (when we visited the particular town) voluntarily tell me the same dreams for "next year" and explain how they just didn't have time right now to take off and do it. And, how they just needed to get x [insert a small project here like “buy and install new battery” or “climb the mast and re-attach the main halyard”] done but they can't find time so therefore they can't do y [insert pre-cruising prep thing here like "sail my boat" or "learn how to anchor" or "leave the dock"]. After juggling a lot of things including a particularly frustrating set of experiences with replacement parts for our own anchor windlass in early May, my tolerance level for these particular dreamers was most certainly at a low. I was thinking that if they won't take the steps to get x project done so they can progress to y sailing experience, how are they EVER going to leave this marina? Reality check needed.

The fact remains that all cruiser wanna-be's must have SOME idea of what it takes to make their dreams a reality and even if their head is mostly in the clouds, if they don't take steps towards living their dreams, it will never happen. They will remain an armchair sailor with pipe dreams of travel.

This post isn't about patting myself on the back. It is about dreamers having some sort of idea of how to make their dreams come true. It's not socially acceptable for me to say, to one of those lovely boat owners we saw in May, “Make a plan—deadlines and commitments—or you'll never achieve your goal!” However, many of these same sorts of dreamers join us here in the forums. And here I can opine about this issue and hopefully an armchair traveler will step out the door, go install that new battery and start sailing.

"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams and endeavors to live the life he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours." Henry David Thoreau
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 01:51 AM   #9
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Home Port: Cleveland
Posts: 2
Default

Hi...I'm a dream sailor. I grew up on the water, (power boats) left it as a young adult and am now aching to get back into it since my life circumstances have finally freed me up to do so.

My dream is to learn to sail, buy a boat and then set off on a live aboard lifestyle. I've got a lot to learn and I'm meeting lots of friendly, helpful, non-offended sailors in my quest. Sharing knowledge and support are a huge part of what makes the boating community special.

I'm guessing the op just had a bad day when she posted this. Because it certainly isn't the norm that I've experienced.
__________________
Juberoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2013, 06:37 AM   #10
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

I love my boat and our lifestyle. I'm pretty sure many other cruisers feel the same. I just today read this blog post Living, Loving and Perfecting "The Dream" from a cruiser who is getting out of cruising but will still be traveling. There's a very realistic assessment of why they've made the decision: largely because of all that "fixing" I was referring to. The post makes me feel good about loving my boat and sailing her first--and the travels second

Fair winds,
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 11:13 PM   #11
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Home Port: Stockton, MO
Vessel Name: Ceilidh
Posts: 160
Default

Wow! It may just be that I have a history with the OP, but what I got out of the post was a frustration with those who espouse the same intentions over and over, year after year, and never do any sort of preparation toward their goal... But then again, we are out here doing it and are comfortably surrounded by many who have done so. I know Redbopeep has never discouraged anyone from dreamimg or following their dreams! But it does get old hearing from the many how they intend to do what they dream of, yet watching them avoid the education and preparation to safely do so...
__________________
Wildernesstech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2013, 05:01 AM   #12
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 25
Default

Auzzee. Good on you for saying what you said so well. This site, I would respectfully submit was never designed for nasty comments such as Mikie's. I have vented my spleen here once in the past but never in the form of a 'personal attack' on a fellow cruiser, be he a dreamer or a doer. We all learn from others in one way or another and Mikie I have learned a thing or two from you. I hope tomorrow is better for you than today. Cheers
__________________
oneman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 11:34 PM   #13
member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Home Port: Chicago
Posts: 3
Default

Haha. You folks have missed my point all together. I bet it will be OK either way. Happy sailing everyone!
__________________
MikieG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:33 AM   #14
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 13
Default

Redbopeep:

I for one, share your dream. And I can also offer logic to support the notion that building/rebuilding is far, far better in many ways that "dumping all you can afford and going sailing."


If I were to have purchased a boat - ready to go, I would likely be dead by now. I have never sailed a day in my life. My only experiences with sailboats previously were my father's catamaran; which he wouldn't teach us how to sail, and a day being sick on a trimaran (where's the water, the sky, the front, the back...THE BUCKET!!!)

Why would a new boat have killed me?

Because I wouldn't have known it, through and through.

Buying a sailboat new is a huge gamble, and one I would never take, not even if I had all the money in the world available to me. Of course, I only know this now after having gone through every aspect of my boat in the refitting process.

A turnkey boat, isn't. You are paying money, and lots of it, but you aren't just buying a sailboat; you are buying trust. The maker of that boat doesn't know you, or how you sail, or how well you understand the various systems on the boat. And if it is a new boat, it will be designed with one thing in mind: getting as much of your money out of your pocket and into their pocket as possible. So it will have features which appeal to your desires, not your needs.

Desires don't save sinking ships, nor do they fit a yacht for Force 10 conditions.

When I purchased my yacht, my foolish dream was of two weeks of cleanup and then off to the wide blue yonder. Of course I got a dose of reality. It has been now 12 months, and I am only off to the wide cement hard for more fixing.

Am I disappointed? Yes, in myself for assuming so much. Do I regret things taking longer than I expected? Not in the least. I am much safer for it. I know every aspect of my boat now (including the belated discovery of the shaft coupler and its incorrect hardware), and have been living aboard, and working on her in harbor for so long, that I know every sound she is supposed to make, thus I know when something is wrong by sound.

Ideally, I would prefer to build my next yacht from scratch. And I may do that one day. But that I had to go through every single system, every single inch of hull, every stringer, every electrical system, every pipe, every line, cord, cable, mast, mount, through-hull, block, winch and windlass means that I became intimately aware of every aspect of my ship.

I'm so glad I bought a derelict boat in the mud in a river in central California. What better way to learn everything I need to know about sailing than to be forced to learn it all before I could even put canvas to wind!
__________________

__________________
Guest2013b is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0