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Old 07-18-2007, 09:58 PM   #29
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The 'Clint Eastwood' reference (Philippines) is, I imagine, a comment on the style of the officer who showed up to process the firearms declaration. My friend says the box of ammunition was less substantial when returned than when it was handed over, and that the breech had a distinct pong of recent use.

David.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:05 PM   #30
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The whole debate seems to be whether firearms should be carried to defend against pirates - yet how many pirates have attacked small yachts in the whole world this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Lighthouse'
Imb Piracy Reporting Centre - 2nd Quarterly Report, 2007, Download pdf.

Imb Piracy reporting centre - 2nd qtr Report, 2007

Only a couple of small yachts (worldwide) reported piracy attempts which in my opinion are debatable as true piracy attempts. Let us know YOUR thoughts.

quoted from : Cruiserlog's Sailing Forums and Free Cruising Crewfinder > REGIONAL CRUISING > SOUTH EAST ASIA CRUISING
Is it worth the hassle, and potential danger to carry a firearm to combat an issue which doesn't exist, except in the minds of the news media?

And yes I have been boarded by "pirates" in the Java Sea - and I argue against guns.

Pirate attack
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
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I think ExCalif may be mistaken about the rules in Singapore.

Cheers

David.
I posted a link to the Singapore law regarding firearms and trafficking. I suspect those laws stand. I did allow that the rules may allow for "bonding."

I posted in the interest of not getting anyone in very deep trouble. I did not profess to know the law regarding declaring or bonding firearms.

Regardless of what the folks at Raffles Marina say, I still strongly suggest anyone bringing firearms to Singapore call Singapore customs first. I doubt I would even rely on the embassy to be honest.

No offense meant to KiwiAussie but really, your first post with no detail was a bit reckless. Hope to see you here if you transfer.
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Old 07-22-2007, 02:27 AM   #32
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So you're stating they're not honest at the Singapore embassy at Canberra???
I'm saying they may not know. Singapore Customs in Singapore will know definitively.

Rgds
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:21 AM   #33
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The problem with gun control worldwide, is that politicians cannot remain constant under the light cast by the potential for terrorist attack.

Gun laws in Australia are forever changing. Laws in the US regarding the movement of guns are under constant review. In the UK, laws are also being changed frequently. In Japan, laws similarly are always being tinkered with. I imagine most countries will also tailor their laws to suit the ever changing threat level.

Anyone who assumes gun control laws remain unchanged from one year to the next and who imports a weapon to any country without first checking relevent legislation close to the date of their entry, is inviting trouble. To not make a declaration of a firearm, which is later detected, may result in the loss of your boat and of your freedom.

Irrespective of the debate which seems to resurface on a regular basis, few people will alter their conviction regarding the carriage of guns on their boats. If you do carry guns you must declare them when entering a country...and you must make yourself fully aware of the latest version of gun control laws before you enter.

The reality of government and all its agencies is, that if an example can be made of someone who, by their actions could be perceived as a threat, the example will be fully developed where convicting that person will have the least domestic, negative electoral impact. In other words, the foreign criminal will almost always suffer more than a the local, convicted of a similar crime.

The decision on carrying guns is yours alone. Having the latest information is solely your responsibility.

Finally, a note to crew. If you are signing on to a vessel which is cruising internationally, you need to know the skipper's position regarding weapons. You also could be seriously affected if your skipper fails to observe the law, even if you are totally unaware of the presence of weapons on his boat.

David.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:05 AM   #34
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Wow! I could not think of ever leaving my fire arms behind.

I am no cruiser. I do not even have my boat yet. Should in the next 2 weeks, but no guns?

Heck, I use my fire arm quit a bit. I target practice and carry. I plan on keeping at lease a 370 express short on my boat. Loaded with mini mags. You can get 14 shots out of that shot gun that way. It is also small and made for working in door ways and such. It is made for being in a vehical and such.

I DO NOT plan on going to any other countries. If I did I would rethink my tooling.

Weapons are pretty easy to come by and make. You have to be able to use them.

Carrying a gun is no more a problem, UNLESS you have never fired at a man. You can use flar guns the same. Just you have to know WHEN to use it. Also, train on firing it. Having a flar gun is great, IF YOU CAN HIT YOUR TARGET. Other wise you are a danger to your self and others.

Knives, that is funny. You can not protect your self from the well planned encrochment. You can't.

You can plan on such a thing, but when dose it stop?

If a guy just wants to rob you. Let him take your crap and get on his way. What do you do if he want to kill you and take your boat for the engines?

You never know.

Your gun dose very little to a person YOU LET GET close to you if they want to burn you out.

No matter how many guns you carry, there always will be a better weapon.

I would first figure out what you are protecting your self from. I would then make a game plan. Some times your game plan will include let it go.

I know one thing. I will burn My self out, before I get burn out.

From what I have seen hanging around dock and such while looking for a boat and for a slip. Most boaters are pretty close.

How, they are all by them selves out in the clear blue? I wouldn't trust any of them till I knew them very well.

I read the insurance reports all the time about large boats like mine. They are a huge target. There is mob type crime in hijacking these boats for the electronics and the engines.

This crime is not over seas, but close to the USA. What can you do? Very little. 7 guys in a boat to 2 guys in a boat. When do you burn them out?
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:06 PM   #35
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Actually my question about knives was not with the intent of using them as a weapon... it was because I soon plan to fly to Gibralter for a fastrack course and didn't want to try and go through customs with my flick knife/dive knife/swiss army knife/leatherman if it is just going to get me in trouble and be taken away... not to mention that when talking about "piracy" I don't think most are talking about a well planned encroachment, but more along the lines of unscrupulous fishermen who want more cigarettes than you are willing to trade... in which case both a knive and a gun are probably not equal or necessary force...

So for my next "funny" question... does anyone know what the laws are on bows/crossbows... no not for self defense... for target/sporting, fishing... for instance I know that in australia guns are no no but you can buy crossbows in most sporting goods stores... would you even need to declare a bow/crossbow?? seems to me that they would fall into the same category as spear guns... which is another good question... do you declare your spear gun???

thanks,

J
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:53 PM   #36
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Well, just make sure you do not sail near Scandinavia with your gun; you'd be arrested before you could say "Texas".

It puzzles me that guns should be a main issue for sailors. Cruisers must by definition be fatalists: we prepare as best we can, but we know this is a dangerous life choice. As for risk, the usual candidates dwarf any risk from piracy: falling overboard, shipwrecking, disease, plain work accidents onboard, muggings in town, alcohol and traffic accidents - the list is long. Seems to me that adding a gun is just adding another risk. It is as with other crime statistics: there is such a thing as a "victim profile", and you can achieve more by adopting practices to keep out of trouble, instead of shooting your way out of it.

[QUOTE=name='Robinsvoyage' date='Jul 16 2007, 10:02 PM' post='9796']

I submit to you that I am not only informed, but having lived in the UK, Australia, Canada, and the USA, am probably better traveled and well versed in international politics than most of you.
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:21 PM   #37
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Hi Atavist, the knife you describe will not be confiscated as long as it is not in your hand luggage. If it is stowed in luggage which is to be flown in the cargo bay of the plane, it will be fine. Crossbows and slingshots onboard you boat will be treated as offensive weapons in Australia and may be treated the same as guns. That is, they will be impounded and flown to your intended port of departure and returned when you clear out of the country.

Your question on spearguns is a good one. There are areas within Australia where the use or possession of a speargun can attract fines of $10,000. Mostly these are inland. However, you must check with local authorities (particularly the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority) before leaping over the side to bag dinner. In some areas the use of spear guns is totally forbidden, but hand held spears are okay. The key to carrying a spear gun into the country is intended use. Unless the tool is a small pistol grip unit, it generally will be okay to keep onboard. I shall speak with Customs today to try to get a better determination on the laws regarding the import of a spear gun. UPDATE>>> Oz Customs tells me that cruising yachts can carry spear guns into Australia. They must not be brought ashore.

Cheers.

David.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

#2.

Hi Ormund,

Regarding the firearms debate, it is largely a debate between the rest of the world and the USA. Firearms and their use is so ingrained within their psyche, that native Americans don't necessarily see why the rest of the planet is opposed to their use. The subtext of the debate is cultural in that the rest of the world does not have a culture of 'toting' weapons...whereas the US culture is so readily accepted at home, that many Americans cannot conceive that the culture is not exportable. It is exactly the same basis of debate that excites such opposition to Japanese whaling.

Because of this cultural base, we have as much chance of preventing Americans from carrying weapons on their yachts internationally, as we have of stopping Japanese whaling in the southern ocean. Equally, people who apply their own culture in areas where it is clearly unwanted or illegal, will pay the price....and I suspect, will then whinge long and hard about 'heavy handed bureaucracy'. Claiming 'constitutional right' internationally is laughable, but it is a cliche which some less well travelled US citizens adopt irrespective of where they are talking about in the world, and of course, it exacerbates rather than helps solve the problems associated with guns.

David.

PS. Just to demonstrate one area of international opposition to guns. From race/rally briefing Darwin to Ambon race, Darwin Kupang Rally, Sail Saumlaki..."Failure to declare a rifle when entering Indonesia, which is later detected during a search will cause you to be IMMEDIATELY imprisoned. The penalty for non declaration of just ONE RIFLE is up to 20 years in jail".
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:46 AM   #38
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Thanks for the info, as always, David.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:28 PM   #39
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"Regarding the firearms debate, it is largely a debate between the rest of the world and the USA. Firearms and their use is so ingrained within their psyche, that native Americans don't necessarily see why the rest of the planet is opposed to their use."

David, Just a vote here for the other side: As a citizen (I don't want to call myself native American as my ancestors only got here from Switzerland in 1710) of the US, I want to come out as strongly opposed to guns and armament of any sort. I know the macho-gun thing, the self-defense excuses of a gun-toting cousin, but I don't think I'd ever be able to kill someone in cold blood (or even hot blood unless to save my child or someone left defenseless), so I'd be better off not arming my enemy. I don't state this to provoke argument, but merely to show that not all American citizens want to arm themselves (or anyone else). There really are others of us in the US. Not everyone is like my cousin.

Normandie
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