Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-22-2012, 06:36 PM   #21
Rear Admiral
 
Coyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Home Port: San Jose, CA
Vessel Name: Coyote
Posts: 215
Default

Yes, Auzzee's politeness is in fairly stark contrast to my almost not quite calling you a quack. So you are calling vaccination an "assumption" but mms a "miracle cure?" I don't think you are going to convince anybody here, but by all means keep talking to yourself.
__________________

__________________
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: San Diego
Coyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 06:48 PM   #22
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Home Port: Richards Bay
Vessel Name: Phefo
Posts: 10
Default

Hi Coyote,

mms is not a miracle cure. It just happens to eliminate pathogens at low cost and with great efficiency. Google 'chlorine dioxide' for info.

Selective quoting will not bring you very far. Just please find a science paper that proves that vaccination works (only one paper).

A quack I would say is somebody who puts bleach in the tank of his own boat.
__________________

__________________
Hansulrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 08:35 PM   #23
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Home Port: tampa
Posts: 16
Default

Can we stick to the subject and ignore snake oil.
Some of us would like to hear from those that have gone before.
What was useful and what wasn't.
__________________
ParadiseParrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 11:46 PM   #24
Capt'n
 
Lexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
Default

Hansulrich ... if you are not really promoting MMS as you say then why are you defending it so hard ???

To answer your questions ...

How do you keep the drinking water in the boats tanks clean? ... I use a reverse osmosis filter on drinking and cooking water. I may if I feel it is warranted use Puri tabs in the water tanks.

How do you heal Malaria and how long will it take and how much cost? ... There are many 'treatments' for malaria and preventative medications but no 100% proven 'cure. I personally don't worry about it much.

How to you heal burns? (very frequent on boats) ... For the most part we don't 'heal' burns ... our bodies naturally heal burns, we simply take steps to prevent infection while our body heals its self.

what if you are bitten by a sting ray? ... Stingrays don't bite ... they sting through a barb on their tail. Stingray stings are caused by the sharp barb that transmits a protein-based venom. The best treatment to date is to soak the sting area in hot water as stingray venoms are composed of heat-labile proteins and soaking in hot water alters the tertiary structure of the polypeptide protein molecule by denaturing and thereby deactivating the poison.

Food poisoning, incl. Cholera? ... The chances of getting cholera from food poisoning is about 0.34 per 100,000 population and with a mortality rate of 0.01 per 100,000 population ... (World Health Organisation Health facts 2009) ... The body generally purges its self in most cases of food poisoning so I am not concerned about this at all and if we use proper food hygiene there won't be anything to really be concerned about.

Question ...also why are you waiting for a suitable medical kit for boats ... I mean you already have your mms don't you.

As to mms ... snake oils and magic elixir ... you know what you can do with them ... I am sure you don't need my advice there ....

Just my 20 (inflation) cents worth ...

Lexx
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
Lexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 11:55 PM   #25
Capt'n
 
Lexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
Default

Now that I have had my little rant ... I agree lets get back to the topic at hand ... first aid kits for cruising ...

I am quite interested in others opinions and will try to make a list of what I keep in my kit as time permits as I am about to update my kit.

Lex
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
Lexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 06:24 AM   #26
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

My goodness fellas, I leave you alone for a couple days and you're bickering about something completely unworthy of us bickering about.

There are loads of ah...hem..."different" remedies which people swear by and which manage to make folks feel pretty confident about medical outcomes. We certainly don't want to go down the path of fighting about all these things.

I do like wikipedia as a source of information since it is contributed to by many people and the info is constantly updated. I'd suggest that anyone interested in MMS keep up with the wikpedia entry on it here

About that first aid kit--sorry guys I've been booked up with other things on my plate and I've been out of pocket. I see other wonderful people have stepped up to the plate with good info: wildernesstech has given us some great insights. I'm off and running with other things for the next couple days but will return here with a bit to add to the topic!

Fair winds,
Brenda
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 06:30 PM   #27
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Home Port: Richards Bay
Vessel Name: Phefo
Posts: 10
Default

Sorry, I don't defend mms. I just try to promote facts.

It's not easy, because that wiki entry about Miracle Mineral Supplement is a list of blatant lies. It's an anonymous forum that is misused to spread, yes, again, misinformation.

While it can be quite refreshing to read contributions by sailors who are not inhibited by a burden of knowledge, it does not lead us very far.

My list for a kit:

100 ml Sodiumchlorite Solution 28% and 100 ml Citric Acid 50%
1 bottle of 100 capsules #3 of Calciumhypochlorite
1 bottle of 100 g Chilly powder (Cayenne Peffer)
1 bottle of 100 ml DMSO
1 empty spray bottle ca. 125 ml
1 tube of Baby rash salve (Zinc oxide)
1 vial of Pain killer
Plaster, bandages, tape of various sizes
Important: A Field guide with information

About burns. Lexx is right. The question is how to avoid infection without further damage to the tissue. That's where chlorine dioxide come in. Live and learn.
__________________
Hansulrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2012, 11:30 PM   #28
Capt'n
 
Lexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansulrich View Post
Sorry, I don't defend mms. I just try to promote facts.

About burns. Lexx is right. The question is how to avoid infection without further damage to the tissue. That's where chlorine dioxide come in. Live and learn.
Dude you really are dangerous To promote the facts ... first you need to know them.

I checked out chlorine dioxide , came across several sites pushing mms and also came across way more sites, including several government ones warning of the dangers of exposure to chlorine dioxide ...

Don't believe me ...

Check out just one ... http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0116.pdf

Lexx
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
Lexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 01:38 AM   #29
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,866
Default

Redbopeep says :"My goodness fellas, I leave you alone for a couple days and you're bickering about something completely unworthy of us bickering about. "
Sorry mother...won't happen again!

Meanwhile, Hansulrish is correct in that I will continue to research until I am fully convinced. Conspracy theories notwithstanding, I can only weigh the facts against one another. The only positive testimonials I can find for MMS come from sources which have an interest in promoting the preparation from a viewpoint which finds its origins in opposition to big business and an 'us-and-them' emotional stance.

However the negative spotlight falls from lofty heights indeed. There appears to be no support for the preparation from virtually any recognised technical, scientific or medical organisation. Claims of it curing cancers, malaria, herpes HIV and so on cannot be backed up by anything more than anecdotal evidence supplied from unverifiable and questionable sources.

Given the above, and I reiterate the vulnerable position offshore yotties are in when alone on an ocean, days away from medical help, I can only recommend MMS be kept ashore and even then, its use should be shunned unless it is under the direct supervision of a capable and certified medical professional.

Unfortunately, MMS has somewhat hijacked this very important thread. Medical kits are a lifeline to continued good health on the ocean and to dilute th issue through big business/political conspiracies and unproven remedies is unhelpful and confusing to those who merely seek sound, worthwhile and proven medical inclusions to help protect their health and fitness welfare.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 09:17 AM   #30
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Home Port: Vancouver
Vessel Name: Sooke
Posts: 76
Send a message via MSN to BJSmith
Default

Bring Silvedene it is used on skin burns etc.. It is amazing stuff. You might need a prescription for it. Buy lots if you are in Mexico as you might have to assist some one on a remote atoll. If you do you will have friends for life.
__________________
BJSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:21 PM   #31
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Home Port: Richards Bay
Vessel Name: Phefo
Posts: 10
Default

http://www.cdc.gov.niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0116.pdf

I know this document, it is about occupational health. This tactic of spreading slight misinformation is well known. You are the one who is not informed and who does not know what he is talking about.

ClO2 in the form of MMS (Master Mineral) is dissolved in water. The standard dose of 3 drops is 45 mg ClO2 taken with 100 mg water. This is a dilution of 500:1 and a very tiny amount of the dissolved gas.

It is a fact that mms heals cancer, multiple sclerosis, brain tumors etc.

The medical industry has been covering up the real information for these conditions. It is known since 1911 that MS is nothing else then Lyme disease. It is known since the 1930 what causes cancer and how it can be healed.

The misinformation about vaccines is now also coming to light.

So the question is, who do you defend the indefensible?

You seem to be a doctor, which would explain everything. How are you going to cook your foot after a ray sting?
__________________
Hansulrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:27 PM   #32
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Home Port: Richards Bay
Vessel Name: Phefo
Posts: 10
Default

I notice that I am still the only one with a suggestion of a medical kit on a boat. There are even no constructive questions. E.g. what is the Chilly good for?
__________________
Hansulrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 11:40 PM   #33
Admiral
 
haiqu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Home Port: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Shenoa
Posts: 1,554
Default

I don't have a lot to contribute here, but since I've had dental issues most of my life I can recommend Clove Oil as a simple and cheap remedy for tooth pain. Unlike painkillers it won't leave you drowsy, an important issue when trying to run a boat.

Tastes like crap, but that's another issue entirely.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen

I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: All sections
haiqu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 11:52 PM   #34
Admiral
 
haiqu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Home Port: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Shenoa
Posts: 1,554
Default

Hansulrich,

You make some good points above. While I have no idea about the efficacy of MMS I would not rely on either the medical industry or Wikipedia to be unbiased in making a decision about it.

Case in point is my struggle to give up smoking. I have been a smoker for 45 years, and consumed about 60 a day until recently. I've tried all the usual recommendations from government-approved sources with no results.

Last week I bought some e-cigarettes off the internet, and since they arrived my intake has dropped to 10 a day. This is BEFORE the nicotine juice has arrived from the USA. Evidently most of my person habit revolves around the ritual of sucking on a cigarette, not physical addiction. None of the "approved" remedies take this into account.

The Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration issues dire warnings about e-cigs and regards them as so dangerous they warn anyone who even sees them to call the police. Nicotine for personal inhalers was recently shifted from Schedule 2 to Schedule 7 (Dangerous Poison) in the Poisons List. Wow, some vested interests sure are getting upset.

Interestingly what they contain is almost exactly the same stuff that's inside Nicorette Inhalers, which can be bought at the chemist without a script. It's a mixture of food flavourings, vegetable glycerine and/or propylene glycol, and optionally nicotine. But nobody controls it and this drives government sources pretty insane.

So, your MMS may or may not be safe and effective but I sure wouldn't take what any government source says as being unbiased.

Rob
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen

I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: All sections
haiqu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:50 AM   #35
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,866
Default

Hansulrich.
If you wish to debate the relative worth of alternative medicines, please start a new thread along those lines. Your evangelistic viewpoints, conspirational theories and refusal to consider mainstream medicine are derailing a thread which is of sincere interest to those of us who place our trust in proven medicines.

On a separate thread, you can expound your theories as you wish and draw comment specific to your area of interest. Indeed, I will be happy to give my honest view of MMS in any thread you choose to open for that purpose.

Meanwhile, please allow those of us who are a bit too stupid and unenlightened to appreciate the supposed benefits of the crap you are peddaling, to follow our own beliefs as we try to determine the best, proper medicines to carry on our boats in our quest for continued good health.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:01 AM   #36
Capt'n
 
Lexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
Default

Ditto what Auzzee said ....

Lexx
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
Lexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 05:55 PM   #37
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Home Port: Richards Bay
Vessel Name: Phefo
Posts: 10
Default

Straight to the topic. The question was what to include in a medical kit for a boat.

I have answered this question straight forward and as far as I have seen, I am the only one with a full kit.

It is not my fault that others are seeing red about the composition of my kit.

Why are you not just coming forward with your version of a on-board kit? We would then be in a position to compare the various suggestions and maybe even come to a consensus about what such a kit should include by default.

Clove oil is very good to have on board of you have tooth ache. I would add it as an option.
__________________
Hansulrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 03:07 AM   #38
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,866
Default

Thanks for that. I don't blame you, for getting the thread off track. As I said it was hijacked by the MMS subject, not the person. There are many good suggestions already put forward (including the previous mention of clove oil) among the dozen other treatments which have been put forward.

With broad input, I hope we may be able to identify a range of dressings, treatments, medicines and tools which we can classify under the headings of Vital, Desirable, Useful (where space permits), and special items for specific geographic regions.

Subsets (such as clove oil vs ibuprofen for toothache and other pain management medicines) may evolve and in time, I would hope we can provide not just me, but all prospective voyagers with a list put together with practical application rather than profitability in mind.
Best wishes.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 10:18 AM   #39
De Captain
 
Lance Gettler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Home Port: STT
Vessel Name: Currently, whatever they pay me to sail
Posts: 10
Default

I'm a newb but I'll give my 2 cents. When we circumnavigated we carried 2 reference books onboard "The Onboard Medical handbook" and "Advanced First Aid Afloat" neither of which i have any affiliation with or could tell you who even wrote them. They covered every scenerio and one of them, I forget which it's been so long, gave a very comprehensive list for a 1st aid kit. I'd give anything if they'd make these available as computer downloads. Every time I pack my bags I think I should throw them in but never do because I'm always overweight anyway.

Our mom worked in a hospital and got a doctor to give us every single thing on that list and it covered the entire salon when laid out. We never used a piece of it but it was nice to have onboard. We were better equipped than the hospitals in most places we visited.

We now regularly fly in to move boats for people and largely rely on their onboard first aid kits but we do always carry sutures, lidocaine, a dermabond pen, a sat phone and the phone# for my close friend who will answer my phone calls 24hrs per day and is a top surgeon.

I've made the passage to the Marquesas twice plus multiple 50 day plus passages and the thing you need to remember is there is no help there. You're just too far away. I believe, if I remember right, that enroute from Galapagos to Marquesas you pass over the spot furthest from land anywhere plus it's not a big shipping route and the US Coast Guard is nowhere to be found there. We went over 14 days on one of those passages without ever spotting a ship or even a pice of floating debris. I must say the lack of garbage on that route is nice.

The books I listed cover almost ever scenerio including amputations, but long drunken conversations with my friend the surgeon have made it apparent that there are things you can prepare for and other that you can't. We were discussing scenarios and remedies. I thought I'd covered them all with my books and kit. He informed we in the very unlikely event one of us broke our femur that was pretty much it. At the 1/2 way point between San Cristobal and hiva Oua you're just too far away without the ability to do what's necessary to save yourself. My advice - don't break your femur.

We also carried an emergency filling pen in the unlikely event of a lost filling, cap or a toothache but i've heard from many old time sailors that they used Marinetex as fillings and it worked just fine. For that very reason I've always bought white marinetex instead of grey - just in case.

Remember too that unless you're singlehanding you need to carry a medical power of attorney for every member of the crew.

Have a great passage. FWIW Cornell's right on the routing and you really need to pay attention to the currents. Find the favorable current and stay in it - that will knock 2 days off that passage.
__________________
Ask Me Anything About Sailing Around The World
Lance Gettler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 11:35 AM   #40
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Home Port: Stockton, MO
Vessel Name: Ceilidh
Posts: 160
Default

Lance,

Well said sir! I apologize that I haven't been able to allocate the time yet to post a comprehensive list, but it is in the plans, and I suspect that Redbopeep is working on it also.

The object will be to get it attached to our WIki, so that you shall be able to download it onto a tablet or laptop and maybe help with your request (partially) to have some of that info available to take with you without packing books...

I am currently considering some other options for this material, as I believe that a "list" by itself has such a small value!

David
__________________

__________________
Wildernesstech is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
med


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coming to the aid of boats in distress JeanneP General Cruising Forum 3 04-21-2012 10:00 PM
Medical Kit For Cruisers. Lighthouse General Cruising Forum 20 02-14-2012 01:22 AM
First Aid Coyote General Cruising Forum 0 12-30-2011 10:05 PM
Sail Repair Kit. atavist Rigging & Sails 6 12-17-2009 05:37 PM
Cruising Guide: Medical Kit Footprints Cruising & Sailing Wiki Discussion 2 07-19-2009 12:14 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
×