Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-02-2006, 12:27 PM   #15
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

I have traveled around the world and am from the United Kingdom and I've never had a real problem with guns, as my father taught me to treat them like a tool. One that you use and handle carefully and responsibly, much like a chainsaw or an electric drill. Much of Arizona, where I now live is rural or desert and it is common sense to be responsibly armed. Either you can fend off some rogue individual or hunt if you are stranded. They also make an excellent signalling device. All of these aspects can be incorporated at sea or in port. I had documents for any law enforcement that requested them stating ownership of the weapons, as well as my Concealed carrry permit for the state of Arizona which showed evidence of training and a background check. People like me aren't the ones you have to worry about when trouble is rearing its ugly head, we are the ones that will most likely save your life. It's easy to be close-minded when you live in a very protectionist society where your taught not to fight back, not to speak out, and to just co-operate with people who are willing to put their greed or evil above your life.

Having said that I know that this is a hot-button issue for some of you. Honestly to me it's like abortion, it should be left out of politics and put back to a more raw and common senese mentality. Incidently, I have been scared for my life walking through parts of Birmingham, England! I've talked to locals and apparently the police are often afraid to do regular patrols in certain areas. The only place in the U.S. I've ever been really afraid is Oakland, California, and I've been to 48 states and most major cities having been a truckdriver. Incidently, I was not allowed to carry a weapon while doing that. Then one day in Kansas I was stopped by a couple of men in a truck who blocked my semi-truck's way. They acted like they needed help and then when I opened the door one of them tried to pull me out of the truck. I kicked him in the chest and tried to close the door, but not before he grabbed my cell phone, which had fallen down on the floor by the door! He ran with it and I decided I'd follow. I grabbed my winch bar, which is used for flatbeds to secure cargo, and yelled at them to return my phone. They didn't. Then two more men showed up and I ran back to the truck. I was powerless. One of them broke the driver-side window and punched me in the face and broke my glasses, leaving me nearly blind. I faught back and was able to keep the door locked.. I sent a text message on the truck's computer that I was having trouble and to send the state police.. That's who eventually had to come and help me, but not before the truck's red airline had been smacked from the trailer, preventing me from leaving, and the injurries I sustained. If I'd had a weapon I could have controlled the situation and been able to stop the situation without even firing a shot. This situation is what laws that prevent honest citizens like myself from carrying a firearms cause. When the state police arrived they pieced together the situation and arrested two of the men. The others had ran off. This was a place I felt very safe every time I'd gone through in the past. Thank god they weren't armed, but because I wasn't, I ended up getting hurt, and the new glasses cost me $300, the new cell phone $165. In conclusion, I feel better being able to carry a firearm. Now I know that everybody's going to chime in, but I think the golden rule is that you need to treat a firearm like a tool, because just like the the powertools I mentioned earlier, they can be used to kill, or do useful work. The firearm can be used without actually firing it, as the threat is there, and 99 percent of the time, I excpect that will rebound a hostile threat. If not, then you have to use deadly force, as that is what it was designed for. That threat is supposed to be enough, but sometimes, it has been shown, with some individuals, it is not. You also have to be assertive and not have any quiver of fear or doubt in your voice when you are ordering whomever you are detaining or trying to make yield to do as they are told. When you are in this situation, the blood rushes through your ears like a hurricane and things seem to be very surreal and in slow-motion until they are resolved or at an end. Trust me, I've been there.

The entire purpose of me having guns on the Hard Knots was to prevent petty robbery, kill a shark that's tailing the boat, and lasty to be used as a signalling device as listed by the United Sates Coast Guard.
__________________

__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 07:39 PM   #16
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

" It's easy to be close-minded when you live in a very protectionist society where your taught not to fight back, not to speak out, and to just co-operate with people who are willing to put their greed or evil above your life".

"The entire purpose of me having guns on the Hard Knots was to prevent petty robbery, kill a shark that's tailing the boat, and lasty to be used as a signalling device as listed by the United Sates Coast Guard."

It is statements like above that makes some US yachters take down their flag when passing and staying in certain waters not to forget make excuses on behalf of some of their countrymen. Fortunately I have never met any of Your kind on my way and hope I never will!!!!!!!!!!

You do not need sailtraining or a new boat, You need something else.

Morten Ringvold

S/Y Haffiman

(Norway)

At present in Malaysia.
__________________

__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 10:27 PM   #17
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 81
Default

"The only yachts I have met on my way that openly admit they carry guns have been US yachts!"

Well I met a yacht out of South Africa who had an AK-47 clipped just inside the companionway, with a pair of banana clips taped back to back IN the firearm and another set right beside it.

Met a British boat who made no bones about having an automatic pistol aboard.

Neither boat could return to the country of origin carrying the weapons and both intended to put them overboard just before going home. But both carried for exactly the same reasons Robin did- to fend off attack.

Just for the record, I'm a native Texan, 65 years old, have owned and used firearms since I was 6 years old ( my first hunt) and do not choose to carry weapons aboard. But I can certainly understand someone who does carry them.

Sorry, but you come across as rather petty and narrow minded to me.
__________________
Charlie Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 11:03 PM   #18
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

"The entire purpose of me having guns on the Hard Knots was to prevent petty robbery, kill a shark that's tailing the boat, and lasty to be used as a signalling device as listed by the United Sates Coast Guard."

Is what is stated above covered by Your definition of fending off attack? That would be what I call 'a long shot'.

Or is it your opinion that there is such a risk of piracy and crimes in the waters between San Diego and Hawai that fire arms are to be recomended?

I am not talking about the Read Sea or other areas known to be somewhat unsecure!
__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 12:19 AM   #19
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 81
Default

No- I certainly would not feel the need in those waters. As I stated, I don't carry weapons aboard at any time, other than a flare pistol.

However, I can understand someone who is used to having firearms, feeling that they should continue - after all, he DID use the pistol to fend off a petty robbery attempt, and correctly too, in my estimation.

I wondered at the rifle and ammo for it myself, but then it isn't my boat, or my affairs. I'd wager that the next time he tries a cruise he won't feel the need to take weapons along, or at least would limit it to the .380.

I've known several cruisers who when first going, felt the need to carry protection, and later realized it was A) mostly un-necessary because things just don't happen that often, and was just plain too much trouble. But then I also know others who have and always will have firearms aboard. They aren't lunatics either. Several are long time law enforcement personel and are well versed in weapons.

My point is that you seem to be fixated on one small thing he outlined in his write up and the items in his stores list, which were never even mentioned in the text of the tale- You've labeled him as an undesirable JUST because he carried a weapon. You don't have any idea about him, ( nor do I) and yet you've made the judgement - and I quote-

" I read your report, and my main thought was: I hope this 'sailor' never gets out of US territory!

You seems to be more into guns and firearmes than sailing and semanship."

You did mention the overloaded condition of the vessel, in which judgement I concur, but you've belabored the other ever since. Concentrate on making useful suggestions such as that, rather than knocking the man for choosing to have a fire arm aboard. It was his first attempt, maybe he'll do another and be successful- I certainly hope so.

And I sincerely hope you have untroubled, outstanding cruising yourself.
__________________
Charlie Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 03:58 AM   #20
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

I'll fix it later, but I wanted to Clarrify that the rifle was in fact 6.5mm Swiss, not 7.5. The Rifle itself was made sometime between 1931-1936, it is a relic. The ammunition was rare and expensive, I had it with me because I didn't want to leave it at home and it could be used to barter or sell if I needed a quick 100 or something. Plus there was some uncertainty as to whaat the Honolulu P.D. would do with my pistol, as handguns are frowned upon in Hawaii. I might have onjly been allowed to have the rifle during my stay, and that's after I got a special permit by the police, yes, I did check all this out before I left. Lava would have had to go into quartentine while I was there which I really wasn't happy about. Rifles are not good for sailboats or anyboats as they're hard to aim while bobbing around in the water on a boat.

-Robin
__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 01:05 PM   #21
tel
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 48
Default

Hello,

Seems to me there is only one reason that you would want a gun while cruising - to shoot someone.

The only places where you might be needing to shoot someone while cruising are well known and well documented.

The idea would be to avoid them.

Then you won't need the gun, nor to shoot anybody.

Tel
__________________
tel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 08:42 PM   #22
Lieutenant
 
Bajamas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 68
Default

It seems a bit funny, but when I speak of taking some time off to sail to the Bahamas, with certain individuals who have never conceived of such a notion how the responses usually go:

"Well, you better take a weapon, I wouldn't be caught without one on the open water". or how a friend of a friend of a friend barely escaped with his life off one of the Islands.

I am certain that these individuals have absolutely no concept of what it is like to travel via sailboat to anyplace past the last marker on the river or perhaps it is just total paranoia that causes one to believe that the rest of the world is waiting for them to get out of sight of land so they can pilage and plunder.

I too had considered a weapon on board but after much research of my cruising grounds have determined that it is not warranted and would definately be more of a hinderence than a help.

It was stated that there are certain documented areas where piracy could indeed be a problem and are best avoided. There it is right there! You can't be killed in a bar-fight if you weren't in the bar to begin with.

What is amazing to me isn't so much the handgun that this indvidual took aboard but rather the notion of an obviously inexperienced individual to have the desire to take a 20' sailboat to Hawaii from the states loaded to the cockpit coamings!!! This to me seems more a fools errand than packing a weapon for this particular trip.

JMO! Bajamas
__________________
Goin' where the weather suits my clothes!
Bajamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 05:51 AM   #23
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

Dear Tel. Please check the link below and read my post carefully.

http://www.icc-ccs.org/prc/piracy_maps_2005.php

That's a lot of water to avoid.

If you think I carry a gun because I "Want" to shoot someone you need to be a little more introspective and ask yourself if you're not just projecting your own unstable emotional state upon me. You don't know me, and your accusation is offensive and incorrect.

Now go seek help.
__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 05:59 AM   #24
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

>What is amazing to me isn't so much the handgun that this indvidual >took aboard but rather the notion of an obviously inexperienced >individual to have the desire to take a 20' sailboat to Hawaii from >the states loaded to the cockpit coamings!!! This to me seems more a >fools errand than packing a weapon for this particular trip.

It wasn't loaded to the "cockpit coamings." Hard Knots was riding above the waterline, albeit bearly. As I mentioned in the account, I had no delusions that I was on a pleasure cruise. I've sailed larger boats, I've owned larger boats.. I just was trying to make a splash and create some publicity. I knew the risks and wanted to challenge myself to see if I could do it. Since I couldn't, I'll try something else. It has nothing to do with my sanity or anything else. I had expert advice from more seasoned and experienced sailors and I reinforced the boat to take a pounding. I'm not sure if I mentioned it in there (I'll check) but the entrance to the cabin from the cockpit was raised an additonal 24 inches, making it awkward to get inside, but further increasinging the vessels sea worthiness. I wrote to someone in an e-mail that since I failed on this voyage, I focussed on a lot of the negative reasons for the failure, it just made it more interesting in my opinion. If I had succeeded, I'm sure I would have put all of the reasons for my success.

Thank you, nevertheless, for reading and adding your input.

-Robin
__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 10:44 AM   #25
tel
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 48
Default

Hey Robin,

I was not meaning to offend you. I wasn't talking about you in particular. More, I was making the general point that there is plenty of deep blue sea where there is no likelihood of being attacked - most of the Pacific, for example. Therefore there is plenty of scope for cruising sans firearms. In fact, if cruising means one has to fight one's way through, then one would have to question whether it's worth it. It's supposed to be an activity which lifts the spirit and calms the soul. Tel
__________________
tel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 02:09 PM   #26
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,727
Default

Hi Robin, You have weathered the storm well. Less stout individuals would have spat the dummy by now. We have all made blunders and all been found out....Irrespective of the turn of events, and opinions (mine included) of your level of sanity prior to the aborted voyage, it has taken courage for you to keep your head up under the barrage of unfriendly fire. Keep working toward your next adventure. Best wishes. David

PS..You don't really need a gun once you leave the USA...Exchange it for a good home brew kit. DF
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 07:44 PM   #27
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Gone Troppo
Posts: 103
Default

Coo-eee Cobber,

IMO your a nut. But remember most bolts need a nut! Dare to be different, and do not take too much offence from the knockers. But do take on board their constructive criticisms. Peoples view on firearms are like religion and politics, not based on facts but BELIEFS. The same can be said for size/type of boat. Remember Preparation is the key to all successful ventures. Good luck with your next venture, would love to have a cold beer and a chin wag with you sometime somewhere. Chin Up and keep on truckin.

Regards,

Stephen
__________________
Happy Sailing,

Stephen

Crowther Windspeed 36

www.gonetroppo.org
GoneTroppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 07:58 PM   #28
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

Perhaps this side is relevant for next attempt?

http://www.microcruising.com
__________________

__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official Account Of The Voyage From Portland To Portsmouth Robinsvoyage General Cruising Forum 1 06-22-2009 04:39 PM
Great Sail, Great Gale CharlieCobra The Poop Deck 1 11-20-2007 05:40 AM
Visiting The Hard Knots Robinsvoyage The Poop Deck 0 06-19-2007 05:54 PM
Leaving for Great Voyage 2005! Robinsvoyage General Cruising Forum 9 05-25-2005 10:20 PM
"Hard Knots" to sail singlehanded to Hawaii. imported_admin Position Reports 6 09-11-2004 03:00 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0