Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-24-2006, 06:39 AM   #1
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default HARD KNOTS GREAT VOYAGE 2005 ACCOUNT UP.

Well I got it finished today. I hurt my back at work and came home early and was able to finish typing it up. Enjoy. This was the account of my failed attempt to sail from Long Beach to Hawaii and back in March of 2005 for those of you who are new.

http://members.cox.net/newport20centre/htm...led_voyage.html

-Robin
__________________

__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2006, 01:28 PM   #2
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

The response to the Account of the Voyage of 2005 has been surprising. I did proof read it tonight after I took the Percaset and did some corrections.. no one said anything but I was embarressed after I read it. I'll also be adding some pictures I took with my 35mm this weekend or tonight if I'm up.. I actually got a few good ones of Dolphins leaping from the water.. You'll see Lava the cat's ears and the top of his head in the foreground so this proves we did do this.. also Catalina is clearly obvious in the background.

Robin
__________________

__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 12:17 PM   #3
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 437
Default

Admiral,

I'm certainly no expert and I hope I'm not being too critical, but...

I've just read through your account, twice, in an attempt to gather where you are coming from... and where you may be heading.

You seem to blame others for all of your misfortunes and I believe you are an absolute fool.

Worse than that - you are a fool with a gun... and thus a danger to society.

Sincerely,

Kirk
__________________
Gallivanters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 09:53 PM   #4
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 24
Default

Robin

It is obvious that your dreams are far greater than your capabilities.

I'd stick to sailing on the local lake, its safer for you and anyone who may have to come to the rescue.

If I were Brian I wouldn't be happy to be critised in such a way after driving you all the way from your home base to California and then back again. Not the way to thank a friend who has gone to a lot of trouble for you. I hope for your sake that he hasn't read your web page or he might not be so ready to lend a hand in future or remain as a friend either.

Regards

David
__________________
David Shipton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2006, 04:35 AM   #5
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default

Hi Robin,

We should be kind to people we meet when travelling outward along the road, for we are sure to meet them again when making our return. I wonder what the cat thinks. I am sure Brian is at the limit of his patience. I urge you to keep sailing for its side effects include independence, tolerence, perhaps a degree of wisdom, and the ability to confront life with a smile and a kind word.

Best wishes

David
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2006, 07:16 AM   #6
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

This all happened 9 months ago, further more I am not a fool and had plenty of expert advice regarding the trip. In addition, Brian and I are still very close friends. Lava is fine. He has always been a traveling cat and does from time to time get motion sickness. The reason for my posting the account is that there were a lot of people following my progress last year and they all wondered what happened to me. I travel a lot around the country and abroad for various reasons, the chief being that I enjoy meeting new people. My goal to sail across an ocean is something I've always wanted to do, and when I'm old and retired I will probably be enduring what my father is enduring now, muscular dystrophy, which will make such efforts impossible. Six months ago Brian and I began construction of a 40 foot Spray 38 steel hulled ketch, which, withall luck, will be completed in three years. This vessel, it is my fond hope, will be a boat that can easily complete such a trip. For now Hard Knots is retired to lake sailing and perhaps the occasional trip to Catalina Island, but her days of serious sailing are over. So you can call my dreams escapist, foolish, beyond my capabilities, but I will assure all of you that they will be successful in the end.

-Robin

-Robin
__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2006, 06:03 PM   #7
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69
Send a message via MSN to Chetan
Default

Dear Robin

A few words from someone who has followed your postings and the build up to your voyage eagerly.

Firstly, an endeavour is never incomplete till you abandon it or till you admit defeat. So perhaps it pays to think of your voyage as postponed.

Secondly, an incomplete adventure often has more learnings than a complete one. And even the worst experience carries some weightage if one has learnt from it and departs the richer for wisdom.

And lastly an observation, its sad that people would rather call you a fool than offer advice that one could observe or act upon. the decision to carry a firearm is entirely a personal one and there are enough discussion of this on the site.

Yes, several members were rather alarmed at your sudden disappearance.

IMHO, sailing is a journey that never ends. with each voyage you learn something. with each learning you are equipped to venture further and further offshore. it is important not to venture too much further than one's experience permits. one can learn a lot by working in a team and a co-workers efforts are worth as much as your trust in him - if you'd rather do it yourself 'cos you don't trust his workmanship, then please go ahead.

wishing you all the very best for your future adventures. and do keep us posted.

fair wind

chetan
__________________
Chetan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2006, 10:03 PM   #8
Ensign
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 24
Default

Robin

I'm glad that you are building a new boat which will be much more suitable for what you want to do. Hardknots seemed to be too light and a trailer sailer isn't ideal for an ocean passage. The size of the boat isn't wrong, I crossed the Atlantic in a 24 ft boat, but it needs to be a good seaboat which can take the weather and in which you have complete confidence 24 hours a day.

In the meanwhile you must get some sea time in with experienced skippers so that you can learn from them and pick their brains. A lot of preparation is needed before going trans-ocean and using others' experience can be of enormous benefit. Of course all sailors have their own ideas of how to run their own boats but if you have several opinions you can adapt them to your own needs.

Above all get out to sea - its the only way that you can get a feel for it and prepare yourself for your own adventures. Living in a small boat for many days at a time, whether with a crew or on your own is not for everyone but you will not know that until you get out there on the ocean. Use last year's abortive attempt as part of the learning curve and the experience is not wasted.

Regards

David
__________________
David Shipton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 03:11 PM   #9
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Hi Robin,

Whilst I am obliged to point out that you appear to have been ill prepared for the voyage let me also give you two of my favourite quotations,

"Sailboats are safe in a harbor. But that's not what boats were made for"

and

"Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, much of that comes from bad judgment."

So the bottom line is do as Robert the Bruce's spider - try and try again until you succeed. Use your increased good judgement to make a new and better prepared endeavour.

As soon as we put to sea, be it in a small yacht or a mighty battleship we are taking risks. The knack is to minimise those risks.

Good luck with the new boat.

Stephen

Yacht NAUSIKAA
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 10:10 PM   #10
Ensign
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by Nausikaa

"Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, much of that comes from bad judgment."
That should be the quote of the day right there.

Robin, I echo David and Chetan's remarks and just want to add that a boat even 4 feet bigger is enormously different and especially in the range in the 30's or under.

While I wouldn't take a 20' to Hawaii (even though I know it's been done before), I would take a 27', but nothing less.

The other thing to consider about a bigger boat is that you probably wont have a temperamental outboard, but an inboard that will also charge your batteries, perhaps even able to hand crank start it in dire needs and if you get one with a tiller, you won't have lost the expense of the at-1000 and you can transfer the fixed mount vhf radio over as-well if needed.

Just my 2cents, but you sound determined and where this a will, there is a way.
__________________
Jim

sv Serendipity
Jim Wasko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2006, 10:35 AM   #11
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

I read your report, and my main thought was: I hope this 'sailor' never gets out of US territory!

You seems to be more into guns and firearmes than sailing and semanship.

But tecnically, the main reason for the failure of your trip seems to be overload. Size of the boat is not relevant in general, but the load capacity of the boat. Reinforcing some parts as rigging etc does not encrease your load capacity and stability. It may prevent your mast from going overboard, however if it does it may bring the deck with it!
__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 03:58 AM   #12
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 81
Default

I don't understand these comments about Robin being "more into guns and firearms " than seamanship. Please explain why this seems to be, since the ONLY time he mentions a fire arm is when he chased someone off the boat in the middle of the night, who the police subsequently arrested. Sounds like he acted quite properly to me- he didn't after all SHOOT the guy, just held him til the police arrived.

Robin- sounds to me like you learned some hard lessons. Thanks for baring all that so the rest of us perhaps will learn something. I'm glad though that you didn't get far offshore in the boat, because it sounds as if she was seriously over loaded.

Don't give up though, just try it again, in a different boat perhaps. After all Chubby made it and she was a 19 foot Potter. Although I'd prefer my Rhodes Meridian 25 over that boat.

Maybe you can do some cruising in the Sea Of Cortez and you won't feel the need for so much stores aboard.
__________________
Charlie Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 05:35 AM   #13
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

Thank you for all of your comments, both those that were positive, and those that were negative. I will be frank that the account was written in haste over a week ago, and I focussed on the negative points of a failed voyage because in my opinion it makes it more entertaining to the people that I know who follow my trips, whether they be by road, rail or sea. If you want a detailed log, I'd have to find my logbook which I have temporarily mis-placed, and then I could give you everything from the weather observations to minute by minute course corrections and sheet adjustments, but I didn't think it mattered.

As far as being more interested in firearms that seamanship, that's not true either. I was irritated by the rust forming on the Swiss Rifle and I threw it overboard rather than maintain it in the San Pedro Channel, and the pistol in the account was pawned for money to by two cans of topping paint and a new package of cotter pins and rings.

-Robin
__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 10:55 AM   #14
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

Where ever Your guns ended is of no importance, but they where obviously of such an importance that You even felt it needed onboard an allready overloaded boat (ref inventory list) on a 'domestic' cruise. Not to forget the other incident.

Most yachters I have met goes on the trips to explore new countries and cultures, and they want to put behind stress or whatever problems back home. They do not bring it with them, they want to get away from it. If You feel so unsecure in Your home country that You have to replace Your Teddy with a gun, not my problem! Howvever if You feel so unsecure on the open seas that You need a gun ther too, Your focus is on the wrong spot.

Most of the countries around the world welcomes yachters and have reasonable simple routines for entering, but common for all is NO GUNS! If guns were to be a common part of the yacht inventory list I am afraid this attitude will change.

The only contry that makes an un planned drop by difficult not to mention expencive is to my experience actually the US.

The only yachts I have met on my way that openly admit they carry guns have been US yachts!

The only waters I have felt threatend has been the US waters when hailed by a Coast Gard cutter outside Puerto Rico, guns everywhere!

Even in Jamaica the Coast Guard politely left their guns ashore on my request before inspection!

So if You cannot live without Your guns, please stay home. If You want to feel free, safe and welcome, leave Your guns at homee, relax and go cruising!

You may get some tips and hints at my web page:

http://www.geocities.com/haffiman37
__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 12:27 PM   #15
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

I have traveled around the world and am from the United Kingdom and I've never had a real problem with guns, as my father taught me to treat them like a tool. One that you use and handle carefully and responsibly, much like a chainsaw or an electric drill. Much of Arizona, where I now live is rural or desert and it is common sense to be responsibly armed. Either you can fend off some rogue individual or hunt if you are stranded. They also make an excellent signalling device. All of these aspects can be incorporated at sea or in port. I had documents for any law enforcement that requested them stating ownership of the weapons, as well as my Concealed carrry permit for the state of Arizona which showed evidence of training and a background check. People like me aren't the ones you have to worry about when trouble is rearing its ugly head, we are the ones that will most likely save your life. It's easy to be close-minded when you live in a very protectionist society where your taught not to fight back, not to speak out, and to just co-operate with people who are willing to put their greed or evil above your life.

Having said that I know that this is a hot-button issue for some of you. Honestly to me it's like abortion, it should be left out of politics and put back to a more raw and common senese mentality. Incidently, I have been scared for my life walking through parts of Birmingham, England! I've talked to locals and apparently the police are often afraid to do regular patrols in certain areas. The only place in the U.S. I've ever been really afraid is Oakland, California, and I've been to 48 states and most major cities having been a truckdriver. Incidently, I was not allowed to carry a weapon while doing that. Then one day in Kansas I was stopped by a couple of men in a truck who blocked my semi-truck's way. They acted like they needed help and then when I opened the door one of them tried to pull me out of the truck. I kicked him in the chest and tried to close the door, but not before he grabbed my cell phone, which had fallen down on the floor by the door! He ran with it and I decided I'd follow. I grabbed my winch bar, which is used for flatbeds to secure cargo, and yelled at them to return my phone. They didn't. Then two more men showed up and I ran back to the truck. I was powerless. One of them broke the driver-side window and punched me in the face and broke my glasses, leaving me nearly blind. I faught back and was able to keep the door locked.. I sent a text message on the truck's computer that I was having trouble and to send the state police.. That's who eventually had to come and help me, but not before the truck's red airline had been smacked from the trailer, preventing me from leaving, and the injurries I sustained. If I'd had a weapon I could have controlled the situation and been able to stop the situation without even firing a shot. This situation is what laws that prevent honest citizens like myself from carrying a firearms cause. When the state police arrived they pieced together the situation and arrested two of the men. The others had ran off. This was a place I felt very safe every time I'd gone through in the past. Thank god they weren't armed, but because I wasn't, I ended up getting hurt, and the new glasses cost me $300, the new cell phone $165. In conclusion, I feel better being able to carry a firearm. Now I know that everybody's going to chime in, but I think the golden rule is that you need to treat a firearm like a tool, because just like the the powertools I mentioned earlier, they can be used to kill, or do useful work. The firearm can be used without actually firing it, as the threat is there, and 99 percent of the time, I excpect that will rebound a hostile threat. If not, then you have to use deadly force, as that is what it was designed for. That threat is supposed to be enough, but sometimes, it has been shown, with some individuals, it is not. You also have to be assertive and not have any quiver of fear or doubt in your voice when you are ordering whomever you are detaining or trying to make yield to do as they are told. When you are in this situation, the blood rushes through your ears like a hurricane and things seem to be very surreal and in slow-motion until they are resolved or at an end. Trust me, I've been there.

The entire purpose of me having guns on the Hard Knots was to prevent petty robbery, kill a shark that's tailing the boat, and lasty to be used as a signalling device as listed by the United Sates Coast Guard.
__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 07:39 PM   #16
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

" It's easy to be close-minded when you live in a very protectionist society where your taught not to fight back, not to speak out, and to just co-operate with people who are willing to put their greed or evil above your life".

"The entire purpose of me having guns on the Hard Knots was to prevent petty robbery, kill a shark that's tailing the boat, and lasty to be used as a signalling device as listed by the United Sates Coast Guard."

It is statements like above that makes some US yachters take down their flag when passing and staying in certain waters not to forget make excuses on behalf of some of their countrymen. Fortunately I have never met any of Your kind on my way and hope I never will!!!!!!!!!!

You do not need sailtraining or a new boat, You need something else.

Morten Ringvold

S/Y Haffiman

(Norway)

At present in Malaysia.
__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 10:27 PM   #17
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 81
Default

"The only yachts I have met on my way that openly admit they carry guns have been US yachts!"

Well I met a yacht out of South Africa who had an AK-47 clipped just inside the companionway, with a pair of banana clips taped back to back IN the firearm and another set right beside it.

Met a British boat who made no bones about having an automatic pistol aboard.

Neither boat could return to the country of origin carrying the weapons and both intended to put them overboard just before going home. But both carried for exactly the same reasons Robin did- to fend off attack.

Just for the record, I'm a native Texan, 65 years old, have owned and used firearms since I was 6 years old ( my first hunt) and do not choose to carry weapons aboard. But I can certainly understand someone who does carry them.

Sorry, but you come across as rather petty and narrow minded to me.
__________________
Charlie Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 11:03 PM   #18
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Default

"The entire purpose of me having guns on the Hard Knots was to prevent petty robbery, kill a shark that's tailing the boat, and lasty to be used as a signalling device as listed by the United Sates Coast Guard."

Is what is stated above covered by Your definition of fending off attack? That would be what I call 'a long shot'.

Or is it your opinion that there is such a risk of piracy and crimes in the waters between San Diego and Hawai that fire arms are to be recomended?

I am not talking about the Read Sea or other areas known to be somewhat unsecure!
__________________
haffiman37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 12:19 AM   #19
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 81
Default

No- I certainly would not feel the need in those waters. As I stated, I don't carry weapons aboard at any time, other than a flare pistol.

However, I can understand someone who is used to having firearms, feeling that they should continue - after all, he DID use the pistol to fend off a petty robbery attempt, and correctly too, in my estimation.

I wondered at the rifle and ammo for it myself, but then it isn't my boat, or my affairs. I'd wager that the next time he tries a cruise he won't feel the need to take weapons along, or at least would limit it to the .380.

I've known several cruisers who when first going, felt the need to carry protection, and later realized it was A) mostly un-necessary because things just don't happen that often, and was just plain too much trouble. But then I also know others who have and always will have firearms aboard. They aren't lunatics either. Several are long time law enforcement personel and are well versed in weapons.

My point is that you seem to be fixated on one small thing he outlined in his write up and the items in his stores list, which were never even mentioned in the text of the tale- You've labeled him as an undesirable JUST because he carried a weapon. You don't have any idea about him, ( nor do I) and yet you've made the judgement - and I quote-

" I read your report, and my main thought was: I hope this 'sailor' never gets out of US territory!

You seems to be more into guns and firearmes than sailing and semanship."

You did mention the overloaded condition of the vessel, in which judgement I concur, but you've belabored the other ever since. Concentrate on making useful suggestions such as that, rather than knocking the man for choosing to have a fire arm aboard. It was his first attempt, maybe he'll do another and be successful- I certainly hope so.

And I sincerely hope you have untroubled, outstanding cruising yourself.
__________________
Charlie Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 03:58 AM   #20
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 156
Send a message via Yahoo to Robinsvoyage
Default

I'll fix it later, but I wanted to Clarrify that the rifle was in fact 6.5mm Swiss, not 7.5. The Rifle itself was made sometime between 1931-1936, it is a relic. The ammunition was rare and expensive, I had it with me because I didn't want to leave it at home and it could be used to barter or sell if I needed a quick 100 or something. Plus there was some uncertainty as to whaat the Honolulu P.D. would do with my pistol, as handguns are frowned upon in Hawaii. I might have onjly been allowed to have the rifle during my stay, and that's after I got a special permit by the police, yes, I did check all this out before I left. Lava would have had to go into quartentine while I was there which I really wasn't happy about. Rifles are not good for sailboats or anyboats as they're hard to aim while bobbing around in the water on a boat.

-Robin
__________________

__________________
Robinsvoyage is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official Account Of The Voyage From Portland To Portsmouth Robinsvoyage General Cruising Forum 1 06-22-2009 04:39 PM
Great Sail, Great Gale CharlieCobra The Poop Deck 1 11-20-2007 05:40 AM
Visiting The Hard Knots Robinsvoyage The Poop Deck 0 06-19-2007 05:54 PM
Leaving for Great Voyage 2005! Robinsvoyage General Cruising Forum 9 05-25-2005 10:20 PM
"Hard Knots" to sail singlehanded to Hawaii. imported_admin Position Reports 6 09-11-2004 03:00 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
×