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Old 08-25-2009, 12:18 PM   #15
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Hello Peter,

Good Question !! Clip on or stop ???

Need to know :- strong flood or ebb tide ? When is slack ?

Again depending on the Port and the depth - my own inclination would be to proceed in short steps - say 0.5nm - stop listen - proceed until arriving in an anchorage then drop the hook in a presumed safe place and alert port authority where you are (or think you are).

If one stays out at sea - then make sure that you are out of shipping lanes - again depending on the particular port's inbound and outbound traffic volumes and their approach/departure bearings.

Not sure what statistics show nowadays - but I guess that very few collisions occur as a direct result of FOG - Wonder what Lloyds of London say?
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
If the boat already has dc voltage electric horns, there is a very simple electronic device which can be assembled - it can be made to operate the existing horns for say 3 seconds every 2 minutes.

Here is the schematic with the components needed. It is in German - perhaps Uwe might like to assist ?
Oh yes!

It is a time switch adjustable from zero to 10 minutes. If pushing the (external) button the signal turns on and automatically off after the selected timespan. But you still have to push the putton every two minutes.

This kit is no longer on the market but the KEMO-company still exists and they offer similar kit: http://www.kemo-electronic.com/en/ba...b042/index.htm .

(But this company is only doing whole sale business and does not sell to private persons )

But I found another kit at Konrad Electronik (a big german electronic warehouse): it is an interval switch, that turns devices on and off after set intervals. If I understand it right, it means that you don't have to push the button every two minutes! http://www1.conrad.de/scripts/wgate/zcop_b..._max_results=20 .

Uwe

SY Aquaria
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:14 PM   #17
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Interesting point about the actual risk of collision.

As far as the scenarios go, maybe we could consider an hour past low high water with a light beeze against the flood making it a little uncomfortable.

Stopped or making way, the question remains, clip on or not?
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:06 AM   #18
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Hi Peter ,

Your "Stopped or making way, the question remains, clip on or not?"

Again it's the skipper's call - taking all the conditions into account - his and/or the crews relevant knowledge of the area - boats condition/equipment/capability etc.. Is the boat in contact with the port ?

Which is safer? that is the decision the skipper must make, irrespective of what others on board would like to do.
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:10 AM   #19
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Surely, it's always going to be the Skipper's call. What I'm trying to get to is what others might consider/do wrt crew safety while they are proceeding as safely as possible to a safer position - or , indeed, stopped cos they're already there.

My own - probably simplistic binary - dilemna is the risk of an event in which:

- the boat is destroyed by a serious collision in which case being clipped on (especially children) is probably not clever

- as a result of weather/sea conditions, hitting a bow wave/a wake or even a bit of a nudge(!), a crew member could go overboard exacerbating an already difficult situation - MOB in fog at night in a busy shipping lane; now there's a question!

My own thoughts are clip on and be damned largely cos my instincts say that the risk of a serious collision is probably the least likely.

What would others - you've all got more experence than me - be thinking and actually do?
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:16 AM   #20
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Peter,

There is probably no simplistic answer, so many different factors at sea are involved with no one scenario the same as another. The role that the skipper plays has been evolved over centuries. When dense fog envelops a boat, the first few minutes is the time allowed for clear precise instructions to be given to crew and passengers - these should be understood - if not, then repeated until they are. After that, no further discussion. The skipper then may reallocate tasks where necessary and then gets on with keeping the boat and everyone on board safe and sound.

In addition to following the Law regarding the prevention of collisions at sea, the check list given earlier still has application.

#1a If you have radar installed switch it on. b; take bearings of any ships in the vicinity.

#2 If you have VHF switch it on to Channel 16.

#3 Switch on GPS and mark position - also note boat's heading

#4 Alert crew, all hands to their pre-arranged stations.

#5 If sailing, reduce sail - turn on auxiliary engine, run at minimum RPM

#6 Check sound making equipment (if LOA is over 12 metres - 40ft then make sure you have proper equipment)

#7 Check that all emergency equipment is readily available.

#8 Switch on mast head lights, stern light, steaming light.

#9 go for shallow water to avoid the big ships, if possible.

#10 even when sailing under clear conditions but close to fog banks (as in the pictures) work down the checklist"

Proceed quietly on course - listening! Post a lookout.

If Radar picks up any converging vessels - call on VHF Channel 16 - if you get a response, switch to a working channel and give your position and track .

Make appropriate sound signals at intervals of not less than 2 minutes.

Make sure that you can alter the boat's course quickly to avoid a collision.
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Old 08-26-2009, 03:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
Not really understanding the reason for wearing a headset when trying to listen for fog warnings and other sounds. Is this another noun that has undergone evolution : Earphones = Headset ?

Think it preferable to keep the sound equipment and operation thereof, Simple. Also preferable that that it is operated by the lookout/s - if single handing then the helmsman/woman operate it from the helm, by pressing a button.
MMNETSEA--

the particular radio allows one to play on loudspeaker (local on the boat through an intercom setting) an MP3 file from any MP3 player. Therefore, one can easily play an MP3 (on repeat) of foghorn. The cost of this, for me, is nothing since we have MP3 player, radio, and loudspeaker. Other people may have similar radios which have local/intercom functions and ability to play MP3's.

The discussion of headset was Off topic but related simply to the radio.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:40 PM   #22
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Up above this post, experienced skippers have posted very good advice. Thanks. Reading those posts stimulated my thinking on a subject that fascinated me.

What follows are just a few observations and opinions to add to the mix.

Sailing in fog on San Francisco Bay or off the California coast is common (in the summer months the fog is very thick and blankets the coast and the bay.

Sailing in fog is an experience in using your senses (and good sense).

My own observation was that so many of the boats I crewed on did not have anything more than a "can of air" horn. Those usually get held for imminent collision warnings by most boaters I met as they don't want to use up all of their air (usually they have just one can on the boat).

I have seen huge commercial vessels emerge from under the Golden Gate Bridge in dense fog, with sailboats crossing their path (apparently unaware of the oncoming traffic). Risky.

The old style of "lung powered" trumpet style fog horn may not seem as "modern" as the "can of air" horn, but it is dependable as long as you have a breath. And it can be used for hours if needed. Same with ship's bells. These things may seem like decorative items for a traditional styled boat, but I would want them on the newest yachts. They don't require batteries.

I think a good thing to do is have "all EARS on deck" if possible (or more than one person and more than just the helmsman) as more EARS on watch is a good idea. Must keep the chatter down (no talking) so the crew is attentive to the sounds around the boat. and stop any clanging of deck gear. Good idea to post someone up forward away from the sounds of the cockpit. While I like pilot house boats, I think a sailing yacht would be prudent to have crew outside of the pilot house during fog, the better to hear what is out there.

Unfortunately, fog has a way of making sounds and determining sound direction somewhat tricky.

There is nothing more attention getting than hearing the sound of crashing surf on rocks that are out of sight due to the fog, especially if one does NOT have a radar and is using dead reckoning to navigate! Scary.

Well, maybe ONE thing is that scary: the sound of a huge motor vessel (commercial freighter etc.) somewhere in the fog and getting louder and closer! Really scary!

For those who have not sailed in dense fog, it is an experience that is hard to match. Even sailing at night is not the same as there is usually visibility at night of lights and breakers even if only by starlight.

Moving forward through heavy fog with zero visibility is incredible, as it seems as if the whole world has shrunk down to the few of deck you can see below your feet.

This may seem like overkill to sailors who sail on lakes or protected waters or never in fog, but on a my future cruising vessel I will definitely have Radar, AIS, active radar transponder, passive radar reflector, manual fog horn, GPS, accurate position awareness, and an ALERT crew on deck with all EARS on watch!

Finally, this is not a time to have crew members listening to their iPods, chatting, or watching a video down below.

Oh...one more thing. There was a question about clipping on (the crew clipping on to jacklines). Would it be safer to be attached to the boat or not? My opinion: It would be MUCH safer to be WITH the boat in the fog, rather than overboard as in MOB . And there is a greater chance of someone going overboard than there is of getting hit by another boat. Imagine trying to find a MOB in the fog!

Safe Sailing Folks!
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