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Old 12-29-2007, 10:10 AM   #15
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Hi Frank Again ,

The specification I took at face value - see the Yachting World # 18224 - 1803302 for a 1983 build.

Thanks for the heads up with the Owners' Forum ! I noted that the design team did a lot of redesign on the Aft cabin and the stern section of the boat - I guess (and it is only a guess) that

in doing so the tank also may have been enlarged at that time :--

Still, the lack of sales had to be addressed, and since there was nothing wrong with the boat, Westerly turned their design team on the interior in search of an inexpensive solution. Production of GRP boats is only cheap if one can sell a lot. The cost of making the plug and moulds, not to mention the work that goes into designing the manufacturing process, is prohibitive. My guess is that the Sealord cost Ł250,000 to develop, so building 42 in 4˝ years is simply not enough volume.

Happily for Westerly, Mike Parham, their chief designer at the time, is an imaginative and experienced man. He came up with the idea of enlarging her after cabin by cutting the mould just behind the cockpit and adding 15" in length. This allowed this barely adequate cabin to become a stateroom, with more room in the heads, a better berth, and more standing room.

In addition, Westerlys first ‘sugar-scoop’ was attached to the stern. There are two good things that such a seemingly unimportant appendage gives. One is easy and safe access from a dinghy, and for bathers; the other is waterline length. The safe access is no small advantage in a high-sided modern yacht, especially as those who can afford such luxuries are rarely in the first flush of youth. Waterline length, of course, gives more speed, directional stability and improved motion in lumpy seas.


What do you reckon ? By the way I note that other 39ers had a 495 litre water tank.

Richard
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:35 PM   #16
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# 2 Westerly CC Sealord 39

....Which means that as a cruising boat to go far offshore in the low latitudes, it is going to need to carry additional fuel ( the average being 100 US gallons - from surveys of offshore cruising yachts) Not a good compromise for that objective.
Based on our own experience, I disagree with the need to expand fuel tankage for offshore cruising. As I said, Watermelon only carries 44 gallons, and for long passages we carried an additional 10 gallons in jerry jugs. We had to have the jerry jugs anyway because we usually needed to get fuel where there was no fuel dock to tie up to, so it was just as well to leave port with them full. In the Caribbean we used very little fuel, often sailing onto and off our anchor. Wind was so reliable that our wind generator provided close to all the electricity we needed.

Only twice in the sixteen years we lived and sailed on the 'Melon did we find ourselves short of fuel and scrambling to find more, and both time only ten gallons bought from fishing boats was enough to keep us going without worry. I should note that had we not found that extra ten gallons we would have still been able to make it to a commercial fuel source, but it would have meant shortening our stay in that out-of-the-way island.

Even in the so-quiet SE Asia, Indonesia/Malaysia/Thailand, we never felt we needed to carry more fuel than we had. Watermelon is a good sailing boat, though. It didn't take 15 knots of wind to move the boat. 5 knots of wind would enable her to sail at 4 knots, sometimes more. Slow, but tolerable.

Although sometimes I wished we had more water tankage, I wasn't willing to give up sailing performance for more water. Watermelon usually out-performed "blue water cruising boats" - a 23-day (maybe 24-day) passage for one boat of the same length was a 19-day passage for us, for example.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:36 PM   #17
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Atavist Greetings ,

You didn't provide us with a few essential requirements in your original post, in your continuing boat search.

#1. The length of the boat ?

#2. LWL measurement?

#3. The Beam measurement ?

#4. Centre or Aft Cockpit ?

#4. what sort of $ price range ?
#1, 2, 3. I'm single and fairly reclusive so a boat somewhere between 27 to 34 ft should be more than ample depending on the beam and how she is rigged... I'd be content with a smaller boat if she had a bowsprit to maximize sail area and a pretty wide beam... I'm not looking for a racer, actually quite the oposite, just something to get me from point a to point b in relative comfort and safety... more important to me than these factors is having a spacious galley, maximized deck space, good ballast stability, and preferably a full keel.

#4. I like the idea of a center cockpit which would allow a spacious aft cabin, at the same time however my pragmatic side urges me go with a tiller steared aft cockpit to minimize moving parts, things that can break and make for ease of repair in an emergency... basically i'm not dead set on either... both have compromises.

#5. Fortunately I have quite a bit of flexability when it comes to these matters as I have a very flexible situation... I am a work from home consultant, and my company is ok with me doing the live-aboard thing as long as I stay on task and submit my projects on time... so... While I could buy a simple boat out of pocket I also have the option to continue to work and make a boat payment if necessary... this however is much less desirable as it would limit my passage making ability due to communication requirements... so basically the cheaper the better, it will be a compromise to balance lifestyle desires and boat requirements... sorry I couldn't give anything more finite...

the input everyone has made thus far is much appreciated and very helpfull.
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:43 PM   #18
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Look at the Coronade 33....centercockpit, spacious, not especially fast, sound, aft cabin, and a good galley. Many can be found in Southern California. Lots to choose from, and inexpensive too.
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:21 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
Thanks for the heads up with the Owners' Forum ! I noted that the design team did a lot of redesign on the Aft cabin and the stern section of the boat - I guess (and it is only a guess) that

in doing so the tank also may have been enlarged at that time :--

Richard
Gday Richard,

No, the tank stayed as it was... fits the space behind the engine as if it was born there. I have never actually measured the FW tanks... 2 x ( supposedly) 200 litre tanks under the saloon settees plus a sump tank under the sole which I have always thought to be about 40 litres.

Redesign of the Sealord into the Oceanlord was mainly prompted by a desire to boost sales. Essentially they took a chain saw to her just aft of the cockpit and stuck 2 feet in just there...then glued on a sugar scoop..and shifted the aft head bulkhead... I - biased as I am - prefer the Sealord. OK so you have the greater LWL but for my money the cons with the Oceanlord are ... teak decks rather than treadmaster ( OK my treadmaster is stuffed but that is a different story...), tarted up interior ... island bed in the owner's stateroom on many of them.... wrap around settee in the saloon... goodbye one seaberth.....redesigned walk through to aft cabin goodbye another seaberth....

That said if I needed a new boat and couldn't get a Sealord I would buy an Oceanlord.

I'm with JeanneP re fuel offshore.. I reckon 200 litres is plenty.. gives four days motoring.. only once needed more than that. Patagonia is different... motoring or motor sailing is the order of the day...., a feature of all boats down here is the number of fuel containers on deck..... I work on leaving town with 200 in the tank + 300 in the garden shed and on deck.

Cheers

Frank
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:28 PM   #20
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a boat somewhere between 27 to 34 ft should be more than ample.... a spacious galley......

I like the idea of a center cockpit which would allow a spacious aft cabin,
Gday Atavist,

I reckon that is a pretty big ask........ personally I don't think centre cockpit works real well below about 40 ft ... just my opinion...

Cheers

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Old 12-29-2007, 11:21 PM   #21
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On the 4 burner stove- waste of space. We lived aboard a 35 foot trimaran and had a 3 burner with oven. The oven was nice, but the third burner was almost never used, if at all. Even here in my house we've to my knowledge NEVER had all four burners going at once.

The other problem is there just wasn't enough room on the cooktop for three pots, even had we had the need.

If you have the space, a two burner stove with an oven would be great. That's all you'll really ever use anyway.

On an offshore boat, I see little real need for a dedicated chart table. Even the Pardeys, who have sailed around twice, don't have one aboard Taleisin. Or feel the need. And inshore, we almost always have the chart in the cockpit anyway.

Why give that much room to something you only look at a couple times a day? Now space for radios, GPS, etc, is different.
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:21 AM   #22
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Hi Atavist,

Thanks for the additional information :-

Taking the general criteria that you have set yourself :

#1. The length of the boat ? = 27 >>> 34 --- Average 30.5 ft -- 31ft

#2. LWL measurement? = based on 31ft LOA = +/- 26ft

#3. The Beam measurement ? = Around 11ft

#4. Centre or Aft Cockpit ? = Centre Cockpit

#5. what sort of $ price range = 20 K >> 33 K US$

Sailboats that meet the above Criteria :-

The Ericson 34

The S2

The Tiara S2

Also check out "imagine2frolic" post suggesting Coronado. The have an owners forum :-

http://sailing.cnchost.com/board/?topic=topic1&msg=2151

My very first Sailboat was a Nantucket Island 33 with a Centre Cockpit - Designer Peter Cole - good sized aft cabin. Built in Taiwan - many exported to Australia - excellent cruising boat for a couple. Teak Deck was too hot for the tropics , I should have taken it off.

Nantucket_33.jpg

Nantucket_Island_33.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My comments regarding Tankage referred to built in tankage and the need for additional fuel capacity

Quote :-

"Which means that as a cruising boat to go far offshore in the low latitudes, it is going to need to carry additional fuel ( the average being 100 US gallons - from surveys of offshore cruising yachts)"



This information I gleaned from the excellent book on cruising by Jimmy Cornell "Passion for the Sea" just published by Noonsite.com. Here is an extract from page 453 :-

Optimum_Fuel_capacity.jpg

This continues " ought to have enough fuel to be able to motor between one quarter and one third of the entire distance should there be a serious emergency"

J - Atavist, I hope that whatever boat you choose meets your aspirations - there will be compromises, and because what suits one sailor may not suit the other - the choice is endless.

All the best wishes in your search.

Richard
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:40 AM   #23
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Atavist,

You could always do what we did and buy an old boat with ballroom floors in the salon and pilothouse, then fill those up with a great u-shaped galley and a good nav station!
Normandie,

As I continue my boat search I realize how sound this advice is, as I can not find just the right boat.... now the question is: Any ideas of the best way to find such a boat??... the online search engines don't accomodate the "no interior" criterion very well.

J
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Old 02-11-2008, 08:24 AM   #24
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Normandie,

As I continue my boat search I realize how sound this advice is, as I can not find just the right boat.... now the question is: Any ideas of the best way to find such a boat??... the online search engines don't accomodate the "no interior" criterion very well.

J
If you can find something you can live with doing just small changes you'll come out ahead financially. If you really want to start from scratch and make your own way with an older hull, look at your local newspapers, craigs' list, etc for bargain boats.

We purchased such a boat with interior gutted by previous owner, because we wanted to restore something quite old and wanted to know the structural integrity of the boat inside out. Ours is 54' length on deck--big enough for good live-aboard-ability. Regarding layout, we're actually returning it to pretty much exactly its original 1930's era layout/configuration per the naval architect's plans.

That's because its original config was stated to be a comfy live aboard for its original owner. He acknowledged in an article he wrote for Yachting about the boat (in 1932) that it was his "bitter experience" that he would only be able to get away for a few weeks each summer for real cruising and thus, the boat was designed for comfortable single handing and a life aboard the mooring during the summer months that he and his family visited Maine from Long Island Sound (where the boat was usually kept the rest of the year). The man, his wife and 4 children lived aboard the boat all summer and did limited cruising. Later, the boat was used extensively by various owners for blue water cruising and even ocean races but the core design was for comfort--large galley, lots of storage, lots of comfy berths (though only 1 double), and with a small deck saloon/chart house that really fits today's cruising with room for lots of charts, computer, nav equipment and a second (interior) steering station.

You can find numerous boats that are basic hulls just waiting for someone to fit them out. In the Sourthern California boatyard we're in, there are many "abandoned" project boats. There was a 40'ish foot steel boat that someone bought recently to re-do after the first owner gave up. A fiberglass 36' boat that some fool gutted and abandoned...another fellow just bought it. A Westsail that has been likewise disassembled and is likely to be abandoned soon by the fellow who got in over his head. We just were talking with a fellow who works on boats there for people who has recounted how several of these boats have been abandoned and purchased by a new owner who has then worked a bit and abandoned the project boat. We considered a 47' aluminum boat for less than 10K in North Carolina, the previous owner had started a re-fit of the boat and given up and the marina ended up selling it for slip fees of around 10K. If we'd known more about boats at the time we saw it, we'd have snatched it up because it was such a good deal because it wasn't as "bare" as many other project boats.

These "project" boats are all over the place and they're cheap. But with cost of materials you won't save money purchasing one or even being given one--it will only allow you lots of freedom to set the boat up as you see fit because its been largely gutted by the previous owner.

If you KNOW that you're going to do a lot of reconfiguring--do look for one of these project boats to personalize.

Best of luck in finding the perfect boat for your purposes.
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Old 02-11-2008, 08:37 AM   #25
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On the 4 burner stove- waste of space. We lived aboard a 35 foot trimaran and had a 3 burner with oven. The oven was nice, but the third burner was almost never used, if at all. Even here in my house we've to my knowledge NEVER had all four burners going at once.

The other problem is there just wasn't enough room on the cooktop for three pots, even had we had the need.

If you have the space, a two burner stove with an oven would be great. That's all you'll really ever use anyway.

On an offshore boat, I see little real need for a dedicated chart table. Even the Pardeys, who have sailed around twice, don't have one aboard Taleisin. Or feel the need. And inshore, we almost always have the chart in the cockpit anyway.

Why give that much room to something you only look at a couple times a day? Now space for radios, GPS, etc, is different.
I can make do indefinitely on one burner if I have to. I lived in Japan with a 2 burner stove and no oven for two years and have been in this studio apartment with a tiny stove/oven for over a year. But, before moving here to fix up the boat, I spent 13 years joyfully living with a 6 burner range with 2 ovens and 2 broilers and I can tell you there were many, many times that I had 4 or 5 burners going along with both ovens. Our 30' non-cruising boat has a 3 burner stove with big oven and I frequently have 2 burners going. The only reason that all three aren't in use is that I don't have enough pots on the boat. Many boat stoves I've seen are small because of confined space in the galley--they're so small that my favorite pots don't even fit on them!

If you enjoy cooking (and canning!)--get the biggest/best stove/oven combo you can work with--it will be a pleasure to use. While we re-fit our boat, I've got an eye out for a ship's stove rather than a yacht stove since we do have room for something larger on board this boat with its large galley. Originally it had a large duel fuel range that we'd love to find something like.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:19 PM   #26
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If you can find something you can live with doing just small changes you'll come out ahead financially. If you really want to start from scratch and make your own way with an older hull, look at your local newspapers, craigs' list, etc for bargain boats.
thanks, Ironically what I want to gut is usually what other people spend lots of money adding... i want a boat without an inboard engine or extensive wiring and electronics... as I will most likely be single handing most of the time and plan to spend extended time away from civilization, and only motor in port, it's just too much space lost and too much of a power requirement... A good outboard with a locking mount and a single jerry can of gas is good enough for me, while my electric needs can be met with a small solar suite.... 99.9% of boats these days come with WAY too many gadgets intended for the dockside or motor sailor.... I'm already a pretty handy carpenter and would much rather take a couple of classes in yacht interior design than settle for something less than my ideal.

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If you enjoy cooking (and canning!)--get the biggest/best stove/oven combo you can work with--it will be a pleasure to use. While we re-fit our boat, I've got an eye out for a ship's stove rather than a yacht stove since we do have room for something larger on board this boat with its large galley. Originally it had a large duel fuel range that we'd love to find something like.
Sound advice... I'd much rather spend my space on a big oven for cooking and canning than on a tv... or even extra berths...
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:14 PM   #27
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Sound advice... I'd much rather spend my space on a big oven for cooking and canning than on a tv... or even extra berths...
It's amazing how much time one spends cooking--even when it's not a favorite pastime, because eating well is! And a good stove makes this process much easier. Ours is 30 years old, but with the addition of a few new knobs and a face plate, it works like a charm.

If you're looking to singlehand a boat that's going to be powered into tight places with an outboard, you probably want to look at light and small. My wooden sharpie is without motor, but is light enough to bring home in the gentlest winds. My step-father owned a 20-something sloop that was so heavy the outboard couldn't fight an opposing current if the wind wasn't from the right quarter to help out. Sailing that to Cape Lookout one day when I'd been moseying along and not paying attention to the tides was an experience in frustration I never repeated: each tack took me further away from rounding the hook--forward two steps and back three. I finally gave up and anchored until the tides turned, but it was a lesson: if you're going to rely on an outboard, make it fit the boat.

Redbopeep is correct in that project boats about. Here in northern CA, the docks are lined with neglected fiberglass relics. But finding one that meets your requirements may take some hunting. Good luck in the search.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:42 PM   #28
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Well, now that we're aboard our cruising boat for almost 2 years, I can say this--we spend the entire summer "one burner cooking" with a non-pressure alcohol stove set atop our solid fuel stove. I don't cook much in the summers! But in the colder weather (take it in stride that California only gets so cold!) during the fall, winter, and spring months I find myself baking, baking, baking as well as cooking lots of stews and soups and whatnot on the 6 burner shipmate solid fuel ship's stove we found for the boat. It has worked out quite nicely, I must say.
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