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Old 06-08-2011, 05:17 PM   #71
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I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that you'll be safer in rough seas in a larger boat, especially one that is only 2-6' larger. There are 24' boats that are perfectly safe enough to take around the world. I have even considered selling my 35' that needs work to buy a 24' that doesn't and just start cruising now.

The good people of this forum talked me out of it, of course, citing the ability of my larger boat to carry more provisions and travel much faster. There is much more difference between a 24' and a 35' than there is between a 32 and a 38, though.

Still, if I hadn't already fallen into an excellent deal on what I have I'd be looking for 24-32' boats and focusing on the smaller end of my scale to keep associated costs down. Everything costs less on a smaller boat!
I'm an a learning curve this end of actually getting to grips with boats, designs and how they fair against other boats.

I know from life that every extra foot of displacement in water makes a smoother ride on the waves.

I may come out at times with things that I've not fully understood or researched but i'll be the fisrt to admit if I get it wrong.

As you say on the smaller size, you're right as I have read plenty of blog's, journeys and stories the last few weeks on perfectly able small craft sailing non-stop for years around blue water in all weathers.

I choose the slightly bigger size than my first thoughts of buying a 27'-29' for a number of reasons.

You mention 1 very good one, room for provisions. I don't care if on my travels I end up stuck at sea for a couple of months and i thinking is a bigger size will be easier to sit it out on.

I have a brother who is actually a great help in all this as he is a marine engineer up in Inverness in the North of Scotland. He is pestering me at present to get what ever I want and bring it too him as he is threatening to rip out the engine and rebuild my boat with an electric motor/generator which make the boat totally green and i'll be able to use the prop on calm days as opposed to burning tons of fuel to do the same thing.

I'm still trying to understand the logic to all this and am also wondering if they are so good why do so many boats have engines that burn fuel?

I'm still looking into this side of things and until I'm in an actual boat of my own, everything is open for debate.

Also remember I need peoples thought and ideas, no matter how blunt and I think we have all been talking enough here for us all to say what we think, no matter if right or wrong as one day someone else reading this will have all this stage laid out for them to follow, just like i'm going through here and I see a couple of others also doing the same.

Thanks for the comments and keep them coming.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:00 PM   #72
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I have a brother who is actually a great help in all this as he is a marine engineer up in Inverness in the North of Scotland. He is pestering me at present to get what ever I want and bring it too him as he is threatening to rip out the engine and rebuild my boat with an electric motor/generator which make the boat totally green and i'll be able to use the prop on calm days as opposed to burning tons of fuel to do the same thing.

I'm still trying to understand the logic to all this and am also wondering if they are so good why do so many boats have engines that burn fuel?
Batteries don't outlast engines, and it costs just as much, or more, to replace a battery bank big enough to run an electric motor that can push a sailboat for a sustained period of time. Basically, for anything more than getting in and out of an anchorage you'll be running the generator to run the motor.

It also creates a more complicated system, which the marine environment is excellent at destroying. With more reliable and efficient electric motors and longer-lasting batteries, I'm sure this propulsion system will become the normal way of doing things in the future.

Perhaps someday someone will turn the thousands of pounds of lead ballast in the keel into a giant battery and then we'll have more capacity than we know what to do with!
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:58 PM   #73
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Batteries don't outlast engines, and it costs just as much, or more, to replace a battery bank big enough to run an electric motor that can push a sailboat for a sustained period of time. Basically, for anything more than getting in and out of an anchorage you'll be running the generator to run the motor.

YES. You really must love the sailing from the very beginning to th very end of your trip. With today's traditional lead batteries (no matter, if wet, Gel or AGM) the distances are indeed restricted, especially when motoring at high speed.

It also creates a more complicated system, which the marine environment is excellent at destroying. With more reliable and efficient electric motors and longer-lasting batteries, I'm sure this propulsion system will become the normal way of doing things in the future.

NO. There are already some systems on the market that are especially built for the marine use. Modern electric motors are very efficient and very reliable (as long as you keep them dry and there is not much that can break), but we are indeed waiting for longer lasting batteries!

Perhaps someday someone will turn the thousands of pounds of lead ballast in the keel into a giant battery and then we'll have more capacity than we know what to do with!
I hope it's okay to put ┬*my comments into the quote..

@ stealth: good to see that your brother is pestering you to get an electric motor! ┬* But you have to be perfectly aware about you motoring habits and needs - then you can decide if an electric motor is a good thing to have or if a Diesel suits you better. ┬* To have a Diesel-Electric system (hybrid) on board of a 32ft ┬*boat will be quite expensive to install and the restricted space will not necessarily allow the installation of a diesel generator and enough battery capacity to really enjoy running under electric power for a longer time.

I love electric motors and I have one, making my boat a little more green, but I know that I won't do any more motoring than in and out of a marina or an anchorage.┬* ┬* ┬*KLICK HERE to see more . ┬*

Uwe

SY Aquaria
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:17 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post

Batteries don't outlast engines, and it costs just as much, or more, to replace a battery bank big enough to run an electric motor that can push a sailboat for a sustained period of time. Basically, for anything more than getting in and out of an anchorage you'll be running the generator to run the motor.

It also creates a more complicated system, which the marine environment is excellent at destroying. With more reliable and efficient electric motors and longer-lasting batteries, I'm sure this propulsion system will become the normal way of doing things in the future.

Perhaps someday someone will turn the thousands of pounds of lead ballast in the keel into a giant battery and then we'll have more capacity than we know what to do with!
Agree all the way but it was just a passing notion and worth a closer look into just incase there was actually a use in it.

As you say the batteries needed to be carried is a lot of dead weight as I would pressume you use a lot to be able to hold enough power, one set for charging and another for actual usage.

The drag of the towed generator, maybe not notiveable under good sail.

You can't use the drag generator really while you use the electric motor as it would waste more electric than it generates.

I like the lead ballast idea and have heard this on my travels over the years.

My days of thinking up and designing stuff like this are way over and I have no intention of going back to this way of life or the intensity of it.

Lovely comments and I think we can all leave this one out of the running for me but I will keep it in my head.

Remember i'm talking about zero expense for the system, i'll get the actual make and type as this one I'm talking about replaces the actaul engine.
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Old 06-10-2011, 01:34 AM   #75
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I hope it's okay to put my comments into the quote..

@ stealth: good to see that your brother is pestering you to get an electric motor! But you have to be perfectly aware about you motoring habits and needs - then you can decide if an electric motor is a good thing to have or if a Diesel suits you better. To have a Diesel-Electric system (hybrid) on board of a 32ft boat will be quite expensive to install and the restricted space will not necessarily allow the installation of a diesel generator and enough battery capacity to really enjoy running under electric power for a longer time.

I love electric motors and I have one, making my boat a little more green, but I know that I won't do any more motoring than in and out of a marina or an anchorage. KLICK HERE to see more .

Uwe

SY Aquaria
Just read your post after I posted my last comment and before reading about your boat.

Food for thought, definately, and it seems to be fine for you.

I will never go to sea in a petrol engine, period, a way of upbringing in fishing villages and old wives tales, but this has been in me since a child and will never change.

Petrol for shore, diesel for waves.

This doesn't mean you use a petrol engine in your yacht/boat when you come to tie up or moore as you still have a petrol time-bomb at sea compared to diesel.

I was amazed when I started out that in the states they were fitting petrol engines to loads of yachts which has seriously restricted my looking at a lot of yachts.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:29 AM   #76
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Just read your post after I posted my last comment and before reading about your boat.

Food for thought, definately, and it seems to be fine for you.

I will never go to sea in a petrol engine, period, a way of upbringing in fishing villages and old wives tales, but this has been in me since a child and will never change.

Petrol for shore, diesel for waves.

This doesn't mean you use a petrol engine in your yacht/boat when you come to tie up or moore as you still have a petrol time-bomb at sea compared to diesel.

I was amazed when I started out that in the states they were fitting petrol engines to loads of yachts which has seriously restricted my looking at a lot of yachts.
G'day bloke. You - 'stelth' - have sure allowed us all to get into the 'vast' learning curve that you're on. Thanks. I've expanded the 'search' to Greece for my own purposes. There are some great buys to be had there, some with 'VAT' paid some without. My personal search is different to yours, of course, as I perfer multihulls though probably can't afford one anywhere in the world, however there are many yachts at very competitive prices in Greese & the Med in general. You might care to look into that as it would possibly have many dollars & time to be saved. Cheaper air-fairs, less cost to sail to where you want the yacht but then why not keep it in the Med?, plus it's in the ECU countries & may not attract the same penalties as one from the USA. Not my field though I'm sure you could find out with ease. My price bracket is a bit higher than yours & I was able to find 6 to 8 & more that were very competitivly priced. More than enough for me to fly from 'down-under' to purchase one, sail the Med for a few years & then sail back to SE Asia - & I'd still have money left over - campared to buying one here in 'OZ'. Sir Richard mentioned a 'Cole 33' as having more room than most 40's & he was totally correct. As an added bonus, they sail very well. I'd don't ever recall Peter Cole designing a yacht that didn't sail swiftly & with an easy sea motion. I sailed with & against Peter for over 20 years. However Sir Richard didn't mention that they are still bringing high 70's to mid 80's in $ AUD (which is mid to high 50K Euro). For that kind of money I can buy a 45' fast racer/cruiser with everything - all the buttons, whistles, 43 hp diesel, 9 sails (to play with), all the safety gear incl 10 man - in current survey liferaft (to international standards), several anchors - chain & rope, etc, etc. in Greece. For me that's a WOW & some big saving to seriously into.

You would learn a whole lot by looking into in depth - all that Uwe has written along with Sir Richard's comments & questions. Many 1000's of dollars of knowledge to be learnt ther for free. I thank them both.

'spike_dawg' said a 'gem' in that - the more yachts you look into in depth the more you'll learn & the better refined will be your wiser chosen end choice. Tnx 'spike' - the name of our property is 'Pililani' & that's way down under in Queensland, Australia.

'stelth', I'm wishing you much good fortune in your search to get the 'one' right yacht as your chosen starting point & not spend a furtune. Ciao, from down-under, james
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:53 AM   #77
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...

I will never go to sea in a petrol engine, period, a way of upbringing in fishing villages and old wives tales, but this has been in me since a child and will never change.

Petrol for shore, diesel for waves.

This doesn't mean you use a petrol engine in your yacht/boat when you come to tie up or moore as you still have a petrol time-bomb at sea compared to diesel.

I was amazed when I started out that in the states they were fitting petrol engines to loads of yachts which has seriously restricted my looking at a lot of yachts.
You are perfectly right!!! And it is good that boats and yachts today are equipped with DIESEL engines. But I remember the times when even in Europe (smaller, but sea going) yachts were equipped with petrol engines. I had the chance to sail on a small sailing yacht on the Columbia River in the mit 70ies that was equipped with a petrol engine: Opening the hatch and smelling petrol. ┬*Starting the engine, or not... ┬* Well, the owner did after he decided that ┬*a little petrol smell is normal .... as I preferred to stay on the pontoon little ways away.┬*┬*┬*

So, the message is clear: ┬*No petrol engine inside a boat, no internal petrol tanks. ┬*spark free blowers to ventilate the engine room before hand are a rotton compromizes (as big motor boats of that time had).

But there is a compromize all of us live with: The outboard engine for the dinghi and the external petrol tank stowed away ┬*in some locker and since I had to read ┬* ┬*this┬* , I am not even sure, if the jerry can in the locker is okay.

Back to the el motor: If the decision is made for a hybrid arrangement, only ┬*diesel generators are used in the systems. ┬*In my case: the petrol generator sitting in the engine compartment is a compromize┬*┬*┬*, but the half gallon internal tank is empty most of the time and I keep my jerry can in the well ventilated stowage in the stern that is fully seperated from the rest of the inside.

Uwe

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Old 06-10-2011, 11:25 AM   #78
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I've taken the plunge again

34' C&C C&C 34
  • Year: 1980
  • Current Price: US$ 22,000
  • Located In Brunswick, ME
I offered silly money again and got a bite.

I was told that one other offer is on the table and they will get back to me later today. I'm a few hours ahead on time so will know this evening if i'll be jumping on a plane.

And on the right side of the coast for me
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Old 06-10-2011, 12:53 PM   #79
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I've taken the plunge again

34' C&C C&C 34
  • Year: 1980
  • Current Price: US$ 22,000
  • Located In Brunswick, ME
I offered silly money again and got a bite.

I was told that one other offer is on the table and they will get back to me later today. I'm a few hours ahead on time so will know this evening if i'll be jumping on a plane.

And on the right side of the coast for me
G'day 'stelth'. You be careful fella. There's a few of them for sale on the East Coast for about 22K, 27K & 29K in USD, so I hope your first offer wont be more than 16K. They were designed to suit the IOR racing rules & as such have very fine ends (not much room) both fore & aft. They fall into the IOR 3/4 ton rating rule, sail reasonably, can get a good sail to windward performance & are fairly close winded. All in all a 6 or 7 out of 10 but with little room inside & are very easily overloaded with cruising gear. Do tread softly & don't go in to high - price wise. Be ready to walk away if it's not what you want. Good luck but remember to have deep pockets, as in it's hard to find your money way down at the bottom of those pockets. Again - careful shopping mate. Ciao james. I did type into 'google' C & C 34' yacht & came up with several - on the east coast of America.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:32 PM   #80
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G'day 'stelth'. You be careful fella. There's a few of them for sale on the East Coast for about 22K, 27K & 29K in USD, so I hope your first offer wont be more than 16K. They were designed to suit the IOR racing rules & as such have very fine ends (not much room) both fore & aft. They fall into the IOR 3/4 ton rating rule, sail reasonably, can get a good sail to windward performance & are fairly close winded. All in all a 6 or 7 out of 10 but with little room inside & are very easily overloaded with cruising gear. Do tread softly & don't go in to high - price wise. Be ready to walk away if it's not what you want. Good luck but remember to have deep pockets, as in it's hard to find your money way down at the bottom of those pockets. Again - careful shopping mate. Ciao james. I did type into 'google' C & C 34' yacht & came up with several - on the east coast of America.
Thanks for the thoughts there, I went in very, very low, her name is DUNDEE and she is in green and white, only people reading this post will now know the very one i'm looking at and thinking about.

I also found a few on the same coast and out of the ones I saw this was the only one I liked on first impressions of what she had to offer and rough condition, the others in the same price bracket were tatty and scruffy and need money spent before I even got them on the water.

http://www.yachtcouncil.com/boats-fo.../country/city/

I've had an email back and the owner is NOT PREPARED to accept my offer and has left instructions on the min he now wants, which is down from his original asking price but still way too high for me to even think about moving yet.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:49 PM   #81
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however there are many yachts at very competitive prices in Greese & the Med in general. You might care to look into that as it would possibly have many dollars & time to be saved. Cheaper air-fairs, less cost to sail to where you want the yacht but then why not keep it in the Med?, plus it's in the ECU countries & may not attract the same penalties as one from the USA. Not my field though I'm sure you could find out with ease. My price bracket is a bit higher than yours & I was able to find 6 to 8 & more that were very competitivly priced. More than enough for me to fly from 'down-under' to purchase one, sail the Med for a few years & then sail back to SE Asia - & I'd still have money left over - campared to buying one here in 'OZ'. Sir Richard mentioned a 'Cole 33' as having more room than most 40's & he was totally correct. As an added bonus, they sail very well. I'd don't ever recall Peter Cole designing a yacht that didn't sail swiftly & with an easy sea motion. I sailed with & against Peter for over 20 years. However Sir Richard didn't mention that they are still bringing high 70's to mid 80's in $ AUD (which is mid to high 50K Euro). For that kind of money I can buy a 45' fast racer/cruiser with everything - all the buttons, whistles, 43 hp diesel, 9 sails (to play with), all the safety gear incl 10 man - in current survey liferaft (to international standards), several anchors - chain & rope, etc, etc. in Greece. For me that's a WOW & some big saving to seriously into.

You would learn a whole lot by looking into in depth - all that Uwe has written along with Sir Richard's comments & questions. Many 1000's of dollars of knowledge to be learnt ther for free. I thank them both.

'spike_dawg' said a 'gem' in that - the more yachts you look into in depth the more you'll learn & the better refined will be your wiser chosen end choice. Tnx 'spike' - the name of our property is 'Pililani' & that's way down under in Queensland, Australia.

'stelth', I'm wishing you much good fortune in your search to get the 'one' right yacht as your chosen starting point & not spend a furtune. Ciao, from down-under, james

Thanks there, all the world is my stage on this one. I scan Europe looking also and have found a few scattered around.

I'll keep an eye out for them but am struggling.

I've looked at 4 here now in the UK and what a joke, they seem to be taking the micky on what they think there boats are worth.

One agent I spoke too agrees and says it's because in the UK a yacht is seen as a luxury item afforded only by the elite few, and it has been kept that way since victorian times.

So the majority of them are way over-priced and people like me don't stand a chance in the UK unless we find one that a broker or agent is not involved in.

I will keep on my search as this is not something I need tomorrow and I still have a few months to seriously keep looking.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:56 PM   #82
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Stealth - not that I am an expert but I live with a few miles of Brunswick Maine and can take a "first glance" for you on your behalf if you like - Solemn oath as a fellow CruiserLog mate not to take any boat away from you.

One caveat I did not include in my suggestions on how to negotiate would have been "Don't make ANY OFFER without first walking the boat!"

Been away for 8 days - sailed from Tortola to Bermuda so I have nto been in touch (An excused absence in this forum, I would hope!!).
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:11 PM   #83
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Another yacht on my radar is this one:

Catalina

40' (12.2m)

1979

$29 000

Name: Curvaceous

British Virgin Islands

This again is out of my price range but as we all know this can suddenly become with-in my price range.

It's a 40' which is slightly longer than I had planned but I reckon with help i'd soon get to grips with her.

The Catalinas in this size and year are going for 2-3 times as much so I'm expecting somethings to be wrong with her. (A real bargain if not).

If anyone reading these posts wants the yacht(s) in question, please, by all means go ahead as there are plenty out there to go around.

I would be happy as would others here if after all there hard work on my behalf someone actually listens to what they are telling me and uses it to there advantage.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:32 PM   #84
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Stealth - not that I am an expert but I live with a few miles of Brunswick Maine and can take a "first glance" for you on your behalf if you like - Solemn oath as a fellow CruiserLog mate not to take any boat away from you.

One caveat I did not include in my suggestions on how to negotiate would have been "Don't make ANY OFFER without first walking the boat!"

Been away for 8 days - sailed from Tortola to Bermuda so I have nto been in touch (An excused absence in this forum, I would hope!!).
Welcome back and definitely excused.

The yacht at your place in Brunswick is slipping out of my reach. Her name is 'DUNDEE' and they reckon she is priced to sell.

My offer as all my offers are all subject to a survey, it gives me room at the beginning of the opening round.

I just had my first offer refused by the owner a few hours ago and the agent wants me to up my offer.

The price I said was all the money I can afford, as such, this was my 1 and only offer.

Another offer is in from another party and the agent reckons since the yacht is advertised world-wide the owner will get close on his asking price, although I was told he will come down a couple of $.

The name of the yacht is a little town near Perth, called Dundee, which I know very well in Scotland.

Tthe name was actually what caught my eye in my search for C&C yachts, 34' -38'. Upon reading further I saw she lists as a very good inventory and basic inside but clean and tidy. Wouldn't take me long to convert the living room into a nice comfortable living room.

I also notice yachts with the masts coming right down to the hull and some that are attached at the top on deck.

Still reading up on all the reasons behind this and at present I prefer it bolted to the hull so to speak.

As I read on more, this again might be a totally useless way of looking at it or thinking about it. Designs always have reasons, but not all reasons are sound even though they go into production.
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