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Old 11-16-2007, 06:03 PM   #1
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I was wondering if anyone would comment on the Moorings ownership program? It has attracted my interest a few times.

Mike
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:46 PM   #2
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I gave it a thought also. Then I realised after chartering from Moorings that I wouldn't buy a rental car. Rode hard, and put back in the stall wet. Just my humble opinion
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:27 PM   #3
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We bought our 2003 PDQ power catamaran from a charter company (not Moorings), taking possession in April, 2005. The boat had been in charter for just two years. Though it was kept very clean, it was surface clean, and short turnaround time meant that shortcuts were taken.

Examples:
  • Cabin liners were scrubbed with a scouring sponge. The liner is hard plastic - like gel-coat. Lots of minute scratches on all the shiny surfaces, probably due to the scouring sponge. This was not necessary.
  • We had fuel filter clogging problems. Turned out that the fuel filters had not been changed in the two years it was in charter (rusted filters, engine paint overspray on filters, so they were obviously original filters). The clogging was so bad that the Racor filter itself was hopelessly clogged. There was no log of oil changes, so we had to trust that the oil had been changed regularly.
  • Charterers don't care about the boat. The countertop had many cuts where knives were used without a cutting board. Bad dings in the hull. Some clearly hard landings in marinas that bent stanchions, etc. If they run hard aground, or run the prop over rocks, do you think they're going to admit it to the charter company? Only if they need help getting back!
The problem with some of the damage is that the boat is never truly right again. I remember reading in the USVI charter boat rag about a boat that was sunk due to a really, really stupid mistake by the charterers. The boat was refloated, clearly it was not written off as a total loss. I wouldn't want to have been the owner of that boat.

Just remember that any boat coming off charter is going to need a lot of work.

There are a lot of people who go into it, though, so there has to be an up side to the ownership programs. I don't know what the finances are - if the boat can be paid off through the charters, and the owners even get a little cash, then they might find that the program is worth it. Free charter vacations twice a year, and at the end of the charter/ownership period sell the boat and use the cash received to put a down payment on a new boat that nobody but you will use!

IMHO.
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Old 11-17-2007, 01:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike37909 View Post
I was wondering if anyone would comment on the Moorings ownership program? It has attracted my interest a few times.

Mike
This post reads like spam - that is to say a plug for the Moorings company.

Hope not !

As a general comment regarding sharing a boat - I remember two of my yachtie friends in Hong Kong who as great friends bought a boat , equal shares - within a year they had fallen out - really fell out!

The problem :- one of them liked fixing things, installing things --- the other liked sailing but couldn't/wouldn't fix things and was also untidy.

Imagine sharing a boat with 6 other people who you don't know - who may or may not care to maintain the boat at a standard that you would set for yourself.

So Mike if you are genuine - ask yourself , would you really be happy to share the boat with people you do not know ?
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Old 11-17-2007, 01:38 PM   #5
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No spam You guys make good points, you know they tell you it will be maintained but I believe you guys are right. The more I experience I realize if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. The other thing I am not wild about is the fact that the boats are layed out for multiple couples. This may or may not be ideal for my family.

Thanks
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Old 11-17-2007, 07:00 PM   #6
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we have our 43'cat in Moorings program and it works fine

we have done some research before joining it and, from what we have seen in 3 years, it is better than Sunsail (since some months they have the same parent co)

every yaer we use our cat for 2-3 weeks over x-mas and similar sister yacht for 2 weeks in Pasific, Indian or Med and it works perfect

Our cat is in BVI and maintanance level is reasonable

and of course monthly payments come in on time, so overall if you are ready to sail 4-6 weeks a year it is good program
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:26 PM   #7
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I don't think that the income part of it can be bad. I have chartered in groups of boats for decades, and the abuse some give chartered boats is astounding. Just like some people beat the heck out of rental cars, but would never drive their own car in such a fashion. Just go in with open eyes, and expect to find many small if not some big problems when you get the boat. Best wishes if you decide to go that way........
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Old 11-18-2007, 01:11 AM   #8
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No spam You guys make good points, you know they tell you it will be maintained but I believe you guys are right. The more I experience I realize if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. The other thing I am not wild about is the fact that the boats are layed out for multiple couples. This may or may not be ideal for my family.

Thanks
Hi again,

Did not really want to kill the process that the companies like moorings offer, however, because they limit the time that boat is available to each sharer , these boats do not fit into the seafaring cruising mold with long term liveaboard facilities and comfort.

But a yacht that has been designed primarily to be a cruiser and that is then used as a cruising boat by cruising people usually evolves over time to reflect their personalities (and pocket) - Having said that, a Mega 30 could be lived on to get an understanding of what is missing or what might not be suitable

(eg : lifting keel yes - outboard engine no)

Best wishes

Richard
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Old 11-18-2007, 01:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courlander View Post
we have our 43'cat in Moorings program and it works fine

we have done some research before joining it and, from what we have seen in 3 years, it is better than Sunsail (since some months they have the same parent co)

every yaer we use our cat for 2-3 weeks over x-mas and similar sister yacht for 2 weeks in Pasific, Indian or Med and it works perfect

Our cat is in BVI and maintanance level is reasonable

and of course monthly payments come in on time, so overall if you are ready to sail 4-6 weeks a year it is good program
I have asked this question in other forums and there are darned few charter boat owners on any forums as far as I can tell.

Thanks for the reply.

All say to check out the charter company. That is hard to do I think. Go down there and sit on their docs for a few days?
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:54 AM   #10
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With the benefit of absolutely no experience and despite an earlier response, I'm thinking that shared ownership could work well for me but I wouldn't be comfortable with third parties using the vessel in a chartering situation.

My model would be more like a conventional time share with a primary owner and a limited number of partners sharing usage, planning and costs proportionately for something less than, say, three months each year. Difficult to find similarly minded people, get positioning of the boat etc right, I'm sure but, where there's a will ......!

Maybe someone's done it (commercially) already; if not maybe it's worth investigating - mmmmm!

See ya
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:41 AM   #11
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Peter.

On the premise that we are discussing the use of a cruising boat by cruisers - how does shared ownership figure in the model ?

What percentage of the boat does the primary owner own relative to the limited number of partners ? Does this owner have more use than the others ?

Why will the "partners" be any better than third parties ?

When you find someone who has done this successfully or even commercially - share it - there may be people out there who have similar thoughts.
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:00 AM   #12
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It seemed like a natural follow on to the original enquiry - sorry for thinking out loud!

It would depend on the partner's committments and contractual agreement as is common in most shared ownership situations. Opportunity might be of interest to owners wanting to release some equity and would be owners wanting to get in on the action for something more "interesting" than a charter boat with umpteen berths and no kit but not wanting to go all the way to full ownership.

Partners would be better known quantities than anonymous third party charterers and, in making their committment to an agreed, medium/long term plan become involved as equals in terms of getting their boat to it's next destination (or home port) in the time allocated contractually.

I've now leared that there's something out there called, I think, "fractional ownership" but suspect that that's more of a local (racing) thing so ... if there's anyone out there who's done it or something similar and would be interested to start this as a separate thread or add to it in a private conversation, I'd be happy to talk more.

See ya!
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
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It seemed like a natural follow on to the original enquiry - sorry for thinking out loud!

It would depend on the partner's committments and contractual agreement as is common in most shared ownership situations. Opportunity might be of interest to owners wanting to release some equity and would be owners wanting to get in on the action for something more "interesting" than a charter boat with umpteen berths and no kit but not wanting to go all the way to full ownership.

Partners would be better known quantities than anonymous third party charterers and, in making their committment to an agreed, medium/long term plan become involved as equals in terms of getting their boat to it's next destination (or home port) in the time allocated contractually.

I've now leared that there's something out there called, I think, "fractional ownership" but suspect that that's more of a local (racing) thing so ... if there's anyone out there who's done it or something similar and would be interested to start this as a separate thread or add to it in a private conversation, I'd be happy to talk more.
I spoke to my brother. He was a yacht broker in S. Florida for years. Started with sailboats at Florida Yacht Charters but got into sportfishing yachts. Anyway he seems to think it is a good deal if you have limited cruising time. It seems set up for those with more money than time, for example if you fly to your boat you know you can jump on it and go, rather than find out what doesnt work. Also when the boat comes out of charter it is at a boatyard that can refit it for you. Apparently cosmetic issues are not covered by their maintenance (thanks Jeanne). I may charter with them soon. After that I will probably know what I need to know.
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Old 11-18-2007, 12:22 PM   #14
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I did a quick Google search for "boat timeshare" and there are some entries, though I didn't look too closely. I remember seeing information about such a program in one of the marinas we visited in Florida, probably in the Sarasota area, though I don't remember too well (we visited a LOT of marinas while we were looking for our present boat).

I think that management is the key to a good program. Certainly the value of vacation time share locations rise and fall with the competence of their management. As Richard pointed out, shared ownership has pitfalls, and if there's no third-party management involved I would think that lots of disputes could arise over the different attitudes and capabilities of the various owners regarding maintenance and sailing competence.
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