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Old 01-30-2012, 06:46 PM   #15
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Ah, questions, questions!
OK so here we go:
In the link's pictures:
- Picture 1/8 shows the keel - nothing special, don't forget these boats are from the early 1980s.
- Picture 3/8 indeed shows the tiller sticking up in the air.
- The engine is located under the saloon table, see picture 4/8 with a view facing aft. According to the owner of the one coming up for sale soon engine access is very easy and allround and comfortable sitting on the saloon cushions.
- The inside steering position is opposite/in front of the companionsway ladder picture 6/8 on the bulkhead seperating the saloon/galley/nav area from the sleeping area see picture 8/8 though the steering wheel is not shown. On the Comet 11 I know here in Cartagena, Spain a seat can be fixed behind the wheel.

Fire away with more questions! There is also a Comet 13 with slightly more space.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:19 PM   #16
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I did a YouTube search for Comet 11 and got some hits:
Comet 11 - YouTube

Maybe some questions answered - happy viewing!
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:48 PM   #17
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Regarding Comet 11 I wonder:
1) How deep is her saloon? Is standing at full 1.85 meter height possible?
2) With engine aft under saloon table is she balanced well enough?

And what do you think about Voyager 35 ? :
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/...voyager-35.htm
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:10 PM   #18
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1) No problem with standing headroom in the saloon of the Comet 11 for you (I take it your 1.85m tall)
2) The owner (who has sailed 75,000M in his life) tells me she is fast, well balanced and nice to sail - watch some of the YouTube videos, esp that of "Mauros"
3) The Voyager 35 to me is "just another traditional layout sailing " yacht with far less accommodation space than the Comet 11 at nearly the same length. I also see that the Comet's accommodation plan gives you far more privacy and possiblities than the Voyager's. I'm just looking at the link and details of the Voyager, I have no personal experience in the Voyager - never even seen!
What do second-hand Voyager 35s go for?
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multihullsailor6 View Post
...
What do second-hand Voyager 35s go for?
What do you mean?

From Voyager 35 description:
"The engine is under the floor in the centre of the saloon, raising the seating around the table to allow a view out of the windows"

So Voyager 35 engine is in the center of the boat - good distribution of weight - well balanced boat.

Some Voyager & Nicholson links:
Trident Voyager 35 Berthed Portsmouth (internal steering?)
Trident Sailing Yachts for sale UK, used Trident Sailing Yachts, new Trident yacht sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

TRIDENT VOYAGER 35 built in 1979
Deck saloon by Trident Marine, Fareham to Angus Primrose designs
GRP hull, deck and superstructure.
White hull.
Long keel.
Dual wheel steering.
Trident Voyager 35 For Sale - GBP 29,999 - Dieppe, France - Boatshop24.co.uk

12m Nicholson 38
Classic Nicholson 38. Built by Camper and Nicholson in 1970, a new Volvo 50HP diesel engine installed in 2001. Hull awl gripped in blue during 2006. Osmosis treated in 1998.
1970 Nicholson 38 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:39 PM   #20
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I'm not trying to slag off the Voayager - I just believe that the interior volume of the Comet 11 is greater than that of most similiar sized yachts due to the saloon under the cockpit and resulting gain in space - she feels like a 45' space-wise. But of course she is no pilot house yacht with allround views from the seating area.

Still maybe worth some more considerations?
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multihullsailor6 View Post
I'm not trying to slag off the Voayager - I just believe that the interior volume of the Comet 11 is greater than that of most similiar sized yachts due to the saloon under the cockpit and resulting gain in space - she feels like a 45' space-wise. But of course she is no pilot house yacht with allround views from the seating area.

Still maybe worth some more considerations?
Sure, thanks for the info about Comet 11. As I said - a really interesting boat. According to video she does not drag a lot of water, goes nicely
Yet for me steering with good observation from inside is important, though I don't like tall pilot houses and would prefer a good trunk cabin with sturdy and clear portholes ...
Could not yet find Comet 11 photos with inside steering position and observation from this position.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dokondr View Post
S
Yet for me steering with good observation from inside is important, though I don't like tall pilot houses and would prefer a good trunk cabin with sturdy and clear portholes ...
I love pilot houses. I don't like little boats with big windage pilot houses though. Mainly for boat performance and windage at anchor NOT for worry of big seas crashing windows.

We're mixing apples and oranges a bit here with your desires, though.

Apples---
Good observation from inside IS important when you're in a high traffic area and the outside conditions are unpleasant. So, nearby or in a harbor/port.

Oranges---
Your prior concerns about bluewater and a tall pilot house taking damage refer to dicey offshore sailing--presumed in the same unpleasant outside conditions--when you're not near a port and you're sailing through something a bit overwhelming. Right?

The performance of these two are apples and oranges. Do you see?

When you're far from land and far from other boats, you're going to do just fine taking a quick look around every 10 to 15 minutes, letting the autopilot do its work and not worrying about what you can see from the inside. You don't require much of anything to do this offshore sailing--you can step up and look out quickly no matter what the boat. To keep the rain out while you do it you might want a little dodger over the companionway. If you're solo, you're going to shirk on those lookout duties anyway...but I won't go there in this discussion.

Speaking from experience of coastal cruising with a boat having a very nice low chart house which allows great all-round visibility and of having the ability to do exactly as you want--that is to steer and do all from inside--I can tell you that if you're responsible, you're still going to pop your head out the companionway every 15 minutes and take a look 'round and you're still going to go out on deck every hour and check all the lines and sails--no matter what comfy inside station you've got. At least that's what we do. It really matters little what we can see in the intervening minutes because the watch-stander often has his/her nose buried in a book while the autopilot does the honors of steering. Even the best of inside steering and observation doesn't allow you the sound of the sails, water, wind. It is easier by far to know what's going on by sticking your head out and taking a look around.

And, in coastal cruising with numerous fishing boats around, at night, you might even find yourself bundled up and outside anyway--just to make sure that you see what you need to see.

There are some amazing boats out there for sale right now. If you're planning some real cruising/offshore, you might wish to stay away from little boats with huge pilot houses. Rather, get the same windage by installing a dodger/bimini enclosing the cockpit. It will allow you shelter while sailing in close to harbor and you'll be able to take off the canvas and stow it below if you're offshore and there's a worry of big seas/winds which will damage it.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
I love pilot houses. I don't like little boats with big windage pilot houses though. Mainly for boat performance and windage at anchor NOT for worry of big seas crashing windows.

We're mixing apples and oranges a bit here with your desires, though.

Apples---
Good observation from inside IS important when you're in a high traffic area and the outside conditions are unpleasant. So, nearby or in a harbor/port.

Oranges---
Your prior concerns about bluewater and a tall pilot house taking damage refer to dicey offshore sailing--presumed in the same unpleasant outside conditions--when you're not near a port and you're sailing through something a bit overwhelming. Right?

The performance of these two are apples and oranges. Do you see?
I see. Your points are well taken, thank you for as always detailed examination of the topic. I also have all these in mind: getting out for a quick look periodically, extra windage, observation in high-traffic areas, etc., etc. Just have not enough diligence to write about all the issues ...
And high seas smash not only the big pilot-house windows, but pilot-houses themselves, yes seas DO this on regular basis! Accounts of these events exist.
Keeping also in mind your opinion about small boats with big pilot house, it is interesting what will you say about this Colvic Watson:
http://www.quayboats.co.uk/sail21.htm
Lots of windage caused by pilot house and a bit small for my needs. Interesting though, being so small (LOA = 28'6") it is rigged as a ketch. Also being so beamy and wide in the bows she will probably sail only on full courses. Yet charming and considered by many as a good cruiser for a singlehander ... (My friend acquired this boat, did lots of repairs and sail her from UK to Turkey. Unfortunately has not talked with him for a while already and don't know where is he now).
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:49 PM   #24
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That's an extreme design. Too small to be a ketch, too small to have such a large pilothouse. Proportionally thinking of all that windage. Wow.

You can (and should) take a look over the (1980-ish) book written by the Cruising Club of America (CCA) on the design of offshore cruising boats. In it you'll find reference to port/window sizes among other things. You can also refer to current offshore racing rules and get an idea of what's a good idea (or not) in an offshore vessel. Regarding window/port size what sticks in my mind is that for offshore use it should be under 2 sq ft per window. That is 12"x24" for example.

Fair winds,
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
That's an extreme design. Too small to be a ketch, too small to have such a large pilothouse. Proportionally thinking of all that windage. Wow.
Sailors in cockpit create a lot windage, sometimes more then any pilothouse

This Nicholson 38 ketch looks lively to me:
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/19...United-Kingdom

NICHOLSON 38 sailboat on sailboatdata.com

There exists even "Nicholson 38 Owners Group" with the list of owners of this boat. Every hull has a unique number:
Nicholson 38 Owners Group
Yet I can't understand why I can't find videos of Nic 38 actually sailing and why 38' boat from 1970 costs as little as 29,950 ?
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #26
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COMET 11 sailboat on sailboatdata.com
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Old 03-26-2015, 06:15 PM   #27
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Hi to all,
i know it's a old post, but i find only few forums of this topic, so sorry for writing.. Amm, Can anyone tell me more about Bavaria models? 30,34,38? Any owners here? Please Moderator, help me. I'm new here
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:31 AM   #28
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anyone? bavaria 34 croatia
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