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Old 11-25-2007, 09:09 AM   #15
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Interesting Topic.

Welcome maxiswede and bottleinamessage

Max I like you footnote / saying:

"To be happy for a night - get drunk

To be happy for a month - get married

To be happy for a lifetime - get a sailboat?

as it is most clever;

and bottleinamessage, I like your name choice, as you must have been happy for at least one night!

...Well for me, I've been drunk and married, and sailed a boat (on separate and individual occasions), and have great plans to get drunk, get married, and get a sailboat. Granted, I do not have any of those in my 2007-2008 appointment book, and I have no good reason for the former issue, but good reason for the middle, and her and I have a strong desire for that later. I suspect, in sequence, I will get married on purpose, get drunk by accident, and only than wish I had bought a sailboat instead.



Now Back on topic...

Clever. But he is betting the whole boat or at least the mast and parts of the boat on something that should not be bet on.

Yes he pulled it off, on his way in, where he should not have gone. He still needs to come back or go through the ICW system.

What is the cost of loosing the bet?

Is this not irresponsible?

What if he crashed, de-masted, and required USG assistance?

What would his insurance company say or do?

What would they say or do, if they saw this evidence?

This is not smart; sailing or otherwise.

Jeff
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:29 AM   #16
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Having participated in getting a friend's boat of the rocks in Nai Harn Bay on the South West Coast of Phuket Thailand, I understand some of the physics and geometry involved. The unfortunate 40 ft yacht had dragged whilst the crew were having dinner and got back to find the boat's keel trapped in some rocks. The following morning we arrived to discover that we could not pull her out seaward as the aft end of the keel was abut a large rock. Long story short : swung the boom out 90 degrees 2 people on the end -- plus 3 people on the main halyard (total people weight say 1000 lbs - pulling power say 500 lbs) managed to tilt the boat down 45 degrees off the vertical while another yacht standing off took up the slack and then dragged her safely into deep water. Only damage: antifoul and few minor wounds.

Questions: the "under the bridge yacht's" bags were listed as 2000# It would be interesting to known the actual weight of each bag and how it was filled and emptied ?. Is it not possible that the coast guard sanctioned the tilting exercise ?

How many thousands of experiments - adventures - have been undertaken in our sailing history that may place " get the mast under the bridge" as an experiment that was successful, but not that exciting or dangerous??

Richard
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:24 AM   #17
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At the risk of being contrary; I think this bloke has shown a great deal of positive application in making for a safe port with an approaching hurricane. It seems to me there has been plenty of thought gone into the procedure and it strikes me that someone who owns such a fine vessel, would not take unnecessary risks with it.

The physics behind the manouvre are sound and I can't imagine a 4000lb load would overburden the rig, providing it swings from a stayed position....and that the keel is free of the bottom.

I admire the manner in which the skipper has overcome the problem of mast height and I honestly feel he must be a good seaman. Suggestions that he is irresponsible seem a bit over the top to me......

But then again, I'm just me.....and I was wrong once before.

Cheers

David.

PS...Making way in a stright line with a 2 ton drogue, attached to the mast cap, 30 feet off the beam is a feat in itself. Are the bladders inflatable race course marks?
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Old 11-25-2007, 02:48 PM   #18
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Auzzee:

I completely agree with you. You said it very well.

He only said that the bags had been in a locker for several years.

No mention of their original intended use.
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:58 PM   #19
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Since Hurricane Noel was the reason for their going into the ICW, then any way to get into the ICW in Florida is acknowledged as prudent seamanship. But I believe that getting into Vero Beach required using this maneuver 3 times to get under the appropriate bridges - that, I believe was more "want to go there" rather than "have to go there".

It IS a pretty cool maneuver, and probably much safer than putting a bunch of movable and clumsy people at the end of the boom.

However, had the maneuver gone wrong, a lot of people would have been very, very unhappy. The last time we saw a sailboat crash and sink at a bridge, that section of the ICW was closed for several days until the boat could be raised and moved, and that boat was less than 40 feet.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:22 PM   #20
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How about a Bridge that during the spring and summer months scores of boats - power and sail ; and during the cold months still many boats will pass under that bridge in both directions. That Bridge is at Potter Heigham on the River Thurne, a tidal river in the Norfolk Broads in East Anglia where one of England's greatest sons Horatio Nelson learnt to love sailing at a very young age - before he signed up in the Royal Navy at the age of 12.

HoratioNelson.jpg

This medieval 622 year old bridge at average high water has a head clearance of 6ft 9inches, which for yours truly meant that with the mast down in its tabernacle my sailboat with about 1inch to spare scraped through (white knuckles - dry mouth!) . There are many stories of boats being jammed under that bridge for hours at a time - while other skippers just wait philosophically - no lawyers - no coast guard

Pot_Hei_Bdg.jpg

Richard

Courtesy Wikipedia for the pictures.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:36 PM   #21
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No lawyers? Here in America you can't sneeze without waking a lawyer. Just think of the cup of coffee from Mac Donald's, and you will understand. Everyone who drinks coffee understands it is HOT, and sometimes too HOT to drink immediatley. Yet this woman won a lawsuit.

I can admire the thought of this plan, but still think it is not a wise idea. Especially because for his own pleasure he can put others at risk, or inconvenience.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:42 PM   #22
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Hmmm, in this day of ultralight racer/cruisers..or just racer/"cruiser in name only" boats, perhaps worrying about whether that man's rig can take 4k from the masthead iis a valid point, but in "the old days" when i started messing around with this stuff, if you couldn't pull a boat over by throwing a line to the masthead, that rig had no business being on a blue water boat. My current rig was expressly designed to take a full roll and not lose the sticks...and yes, I sleep better because of it.

on the ultra low bridges point, seems to me there is a particularly notorious bridge on the French Canal system that just happens to be adjacent to a popular pub. Apparently if there is any question of clearance, a pop off the boat and into the pub, and probably a round for the house, will result in formidable aditional ballast on the hoof , as it were, sufficient to sink the boat a few more inches and thereby clear the bridge after which, a quick return to the pub to celebrate is usually in order

seer
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Old 11-27-2007, 02:02 PM   #23
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I like the burgee still flying from the pig stick, and the audacity to succeed. I think it is a brilliantly engineered solution that should be admired for what it is. As far as the side loads on sheaves and the mast, it kind of reminds me of a spinnaker knockdown, but of a very gentle kind. Somehow the spinnaker halyard and mast usually survives, although exceptions are memorable.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:17 PM   #24
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The yacht is heeling at an angle of about 35, while passing the bridge.

The yacht is unter engine.

My marine diesel engine manual states, that the heeling of the engine schould not exceed 15 under operation.

What type of engine can be operated over several minutes under such circumstances?

Uwe

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Old 11-28-2007, 02:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaria View Post
The yacht is heeling at an angle of about 35, while passing the bridge.

The yacht is unter engine.

My marine diesel engine manual states, that the heeling of the engine schould not exceed 15 under operation.

What type of engine can be operated over several minutes under such circumstances?

Uwe

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Good catch, Uwe. Someone else will have to do the math (I used a plotting sheet with compass rose), but an 80' mast would have to be heeled about 40 degrees to get it down to 60'. What's happening with the oil pressure here?

Bill
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