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Old 11-23-2007, 07:31 PM   #1
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I thought this was so unbelievable, I had to get permission to post these pictures here for everyone to see.

This boat arrived last night in Vero Beach.

It's been coming south on the ICW with an 80' mast and 7'10" draft.

Each water bag weighs 2000#.

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Old 11-23-2007, 08:16 PM   #2
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I wonder how the bladders are filled.

This sort of problem solving capability is why we are at the top of the food chain. Fascinating!

Cheers

David
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Old 11-23-2007, 11:18 PM   #3
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I wonder why a boat clearly intended for offshore sailing is traveling down the ICW in the first place. A lot of effort to travel very slowly with difficulty, when they need only go offshore. I wonder, though, how they got through Georgia on the ICW - most of it is less than 8 feet - though there's more tide there, so they'd probably be okay from mid-tide to mid-tide. Still, why?

Oh, well.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:47 AM   #4
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My thoughts were...wouldn't it be safer and easier to simply unstep the mast and have it trucked?

Seems to me to be a lot of risk to the mast and shrouds loading them with that much weight at the every end of the mast...as the mast is designed to carry load along it's entrire length.
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Old 11-24-2007, 04:27 AM   #5
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What that weight/s must do to the halyard sheaves ? not to mention :- port side rigging and the mast step !!!
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:58 AM   #6
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Think if, when passing under a bridge, one of the bags burst

/ Stephen
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Old 11-24-2007, 03:02 PM   #7
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Not needed, as Jean stated get it over with on the outside. Then again some do things just so they can say it was done.
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Old 11-24-2007, 05:04 PM   #8
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Am I the only one with intelligence low enough not to figure how they manage to swing those bags to one side or the other...?????

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Old 11-24-2007, 07:59 PM   #9
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I'm the guy who watched this and took the pictures. I have to say it was a very professionally executed operation. Just the captain and his wife aboard. As they approach the bridge, they release the bags from the base of the mast and execute a slight turn (to port in this example) to start the bags moving off the starboard beam.

As they get closer they ease the sheets that hold the bags to the boat. When the bags touch the water the mast height is 60'.

David is a pretty cool guy. He rigged this as Noel was approaching the eastern US. It worked so well that he figured he could go inside and visit the places he had been missing.
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Old 11-24-2007, 08:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleinamessag View Post
I'm the guy who watched this and took the pictures.
Thanks for filling in all the "blanks". Good pics!
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:23 PM   #11
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Yeah, I was also wondering how they got them to swing out. I bet the first time was a bit unnerving

Bottleinamessage, thanks for sharing! Nice blog also...sorry to hear about the damage to your rudder. Hope all is well.

Ken
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:36 PM   #12
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Ken: Everything is fine now. Thanks.

Also, if you're the moderator that added the "e" to my screen name....thanks.

Nice of you.

Jay
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:45 PM   #13
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I think someone else caught that.

I did the same thing to my rudder on my previous boat when I backed off a sand bar mid-channel under the Coronado Bridge in San Diego. It was never the same after that.

It is a really nice group here from around the world...many of which are underway or getting underway for multi-year outings.

Welcome aboard!
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleinamessag View Post
I'm the guy who watched this and took the pictures. I have to say it was a very professionally executed operation. Just the captain and his wife aboard. As they approach the bridge, they release the bags from the base of the mast and execute a slight turn (to port in this example) to start the bags moving off the starboard beam.

As they get closer they ease the sheets that hold the bags to the boat. When the bags touch the water the mast height is 60'.

David is a pretty cool guy. He rigged this as Noel was approaching the eastern US. It worked so well that he figured he could go inside and visit the places he had been missing.
OK, now that's something. A slight turn... but then? IIRC from school they should swing back like a pendulum... Gee, I just wish I saw that with my own eyes. Am gonna try it next time out ...must be fun, unless the pole comes down from the weight that is ...
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:09 AM   #15
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Interesting Topic.

Welcome maxiswede and bottleinamessage

Max I like you footnote / saying:

"To be happy for a night - get drunk

To be happy for a month - get married

To be happy for a lifetime - get a sailboat?

as it is most clever;

and bottleinamessage, I like your name choice, as you must have been happy for at least one night!

...Well for me, I've been drunk and married, and sailed a boat (on separate and individual occasions), and have great plans to get drunk, get married, and get a sailboat. Granted, I do not have any of those in my 2007-2008 appointment book, and I have no good reason for the former issue, but good reason for the middle, and her and I have a strong desire for that later. I suspect, in sequence, I will get married on purpose, get drunk by accident, and only than wish I had bought a sailboat instead.



Now Back on topic...

Clever. But he is betting the whole boat or at least the mast and parts of the boat on something that should not be bet on.

Yes he pulled it off, on his way in, where he should not have gone. He still needs to come back or go through the ICW system.

What is the cost of loosing the bet?

Is this not irresponsible?

What if he crashed, de-masted, and required USG assistance?

What would his insurance company say or do?

What would they say or do, if they saw this evidence?

This is not smart; sailing or otherwise.

Jeff
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:29 AM   #16
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Having participated in getting a friend's boat of the rocks in Nai Harn Bay on the South West Coast of Phuket Thailand, I understand some of the physics and geometry involved. The unfortunate 40 ft yacht had dragged whilst the crew were having dinner and got back to find the boat's keel trapped in some rocks. The following morning we arrived to discover that we could not pull her out seaward as the aft end of the keel was abut a large rock. Long story short : swung the boom out 90 degrees 2 people on the end -- plus 3 people on the main halyard (total people weight say 1000 lbs - pulling power say 500 lbs) managed to tilt the boat down 45 degrees off the vertical while another yacht standing off took up the slack and then dragged her safely into deep water. Only damage: antifoul and few minor wounds.

Questions: the "under the bridge yacht's" bags were listed as 2000# It would be interesting to known the actual weight of each bag and how it was filled and emptied ?. Is it not possible that the coast guard sanctioned the tilting exercise ?

How many thousands of experiments - adventures - have been undertaken in our sailing history that may place " get the mast under the bridge" as an experiment that was successful, but not that exciting or dangerous??

Richard
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:24 PM   #17
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At the risk of being contrary; I think this bloke has shown a great deal of positive application in making for a safe port with an approaching hurricane. It seems to me there has been plenty of thought gone into the procedure and it strikes me that someone who owns such a fine vessel, would not take unnecessary risks with it.

The physics behind the manouvre are sound and I can't imagine a 4000lb load would overburden the rig, providing it swings from a stayed position....and that the keel is free of the bottom.

I admire the manner in which the skipper has overcome the problem of mast height and I honestly feel he must be a good seaman. Suggestions that he is irresponsible seem a bit over the top to me......

But then again, I'm just me.....and I was wrong once before.

Cheers

David.

PS...Making way in a stright line with a 2 ton drogue, attached to the mast cap, 30 feet off the beam is a feat in itself. Are the bladders inflatable race course marks?
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Old 11-25-2007, 03:48 PM   #18
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Auzzee:

I completely agree with you. You said it very well.

He only said that the bags had been in a locker for several years.

No mention of their original intended use.
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:58 PM   #19
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Since Hurricane Noel was the reason for their going into the ICW, then any way to get into the ICW in Florida is acknowledged as prudent seamanship. But I believe that getting into Vero Beach required using this maneuver 3 times to get under the appropriate bridges - that, I believe was more "want to go there" rather than "have to go there".

It IS a pretty cool maneuver, and probably much safer than putting a bunch of movable and clumsy people at the end of the boom.

However, had the maneuver gone wrong, a lot of people would have been very, very unhappy. The last time we saw a sailboat crash and sink at a bridge, that section of the ICW was closed for several days until the boat could be raised and moved, and that boat was less than 40 feet.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:22 PM   #20
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How about a Bridge that during the spring and summer months scores of boats - power and sail ; and during the cold months still many boats will pass under that bridge in both directions. That Bridge is at Potter Heigham on the River Thurne, a tidal river in the Norfolk Broads in East Anglia where one of England's greatest sons Horatio Nelson learnt to love sailing at a very young age - before he signed up in the Royal Navy at the age of 12.

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This medieval 622 year old bridge at average high water has a head clearance of 6ft 9inches, which for yours truly meant that with the mast down in its tabernacle my sailboat with about 1inch to spare scraped through (white knuckles - dry mouth!) . There are many stories of boats being jammed under that bridge for hours at a time - while other skippers just wait philosophically - no lawyers - no coast guard

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Richard

Courtesy Wikipedia for the pictures.
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