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Old 07-05-2012, 06:41 AM   #1
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Default National registration

Hi,

Just discovered that any pleasure vessel intending to travel overseas is required to be on the Australian national registry of ships. Since this is EXPENSIVE (like $2000+) is there any viable alternative available, such as foreign registration?

Note that I already pay state registration to NSW Maritime, so this is a bit rich.

Rob
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:39 AM   #2
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Hi Rob,

While I can understand you baulking at additional expenses, as you'd be aware, national registration is part of an international maritime structure that delivers both security and safety for both yourself, crew, your country of origin and country of entry. It's basically an international passport for your vessel allowing you to access the same support and consular facilities as we enjoy with our own passports.

If you are an Australian citizen holding an Australian passport - my advice is to bite the bullet and get Australian Registration. Unlike your state registration, it's a once only expense and can be linked to your EPIRB registration, ships station licence and a host of other details that become invaluable to ensuring a speedy and accurate response from authorities should you get into difficulties.

Sure you may be able to access foreign registration but my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that for international recreational vessel registration, you need to be a citizen of that country. Here in Oz, you cannot register a vessel on the Australian Ships Register if your are not an Australian citizen. You can be a permanent resident but even then, you need to do it in partnership with an Australian citizen who is registered as having a majority ownership. I would imagine this might apply to other countries as well.

Put it this way - if you have a collision with another vessel somewhere off New Caledonia with injuries, damage and any other manner of complications - my guess is you'd be giving thanks that your vessel isn't registered in Peru!

My gripe is more with state registration where you have to reregister and often reinsure if you move your vessel from one state to another - now that is a pain in the bum!

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Mico
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:51 AM   #3
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Hi Rob,

It actually costs $1190 to Australian register your yacht ... it just went up from $830 a few months ago ... it is a once off fee.

Go to ... Australian Shipping Registration Office

All the information you need will be there as well as downloadable forms etc of everything you need to do the Australian Registration.

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Old 07-05-2012, 12:11 PM   #4
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Hi Lexx,

The fee for "ships requiring to be registered" is $2040 which is the right category for any yacht travelling overseas, although if you applied for registration as a local yacht without mentioning your plans to travel overseas then I suspect that "ships permitted to be registered" at $1190 would work out. When I studied the AMSA page earlier today I misread that as $1910 and didn't take much notice since they appeared to be so close together, but this is a far more reasonable charge.

One also has to factor in the extra costs of transferring ownership ($340), change of name ($82) or change of home port ($82) if these ever happen. You even need to apply for permission to fly an Australian flag ($170). There's also an enormous amount of wankery regarding establishing the ownership history, including Builder's Certificate and publishing notices in the Commonwealth Gazette. Tedious in the extreme for a vessel with no traceable history.

Still, as Mico pointed out it's a once-only expense. Guess I was just balking at the cost relative to the overall value of the yacht, but once established it may actually increase that value.

Rob
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:19 PM   #5
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Dude you got it all wrong ... you are not applying the correct definitions ... your private yacht comes under "ships permitted to be registered" at $1190, ships required to be registered are commercial vessels.

As you are applying for a new registration there is no transfer, also no change of ships name and no change in home port... you nominate those when applying for rego ... you also do not need to apply for permission to fly the red ensign ...once registered you can fly it no probs ... you can fly the blue ensign or aussie flag whether registered or not.

I know the site can be confusing but believe me what I have stated is how its applied.

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Old 07-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #6
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You will find once you get into and understand the paperwork that its not half as hard as it seems. Communication is the key, work out what you want to do and then ask their advice and I bet they make is pretty easy ... I have gone through the process a few times now myself and helping friends ... I aint a rocket scientist and managed without much trouble.

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Old 07-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #7
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From theDepartment of the Prime Minister and Cabinet

Excerpt from the booklet Australian flags – Part 2: The protocols for the appropriate use and the flying of the flag.

FLYING THE AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL
FLAG AND RED ENSIGN ON SHIPS
The Australian red ensign is the flag to be flown by Australian-registered merchant ships. Either the Australian National Flag or the Australian red ensign can
be flown by government ships, fishing vessels, pleasure craft, small craft and commercial vessels under 24 metres in tonnage length, but not both ensigns at the same time.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:19 PM   #8
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Lexx has it right about the price.

We just paid $1190 to have our previously US registered ketch changed to Australian registration - and its not even in Australian waters!. It took a bit of paperwork and a bit of back and forward stuff but all sorted pretty easily.

I have called the AMSA number a few times and the staff there were extremely helpful - far more so than I have ever experienced with other gov departments. I called them right at the start and they walked me through the process and have called me a few times since then to help clarify things. They've been great - as are, their other section that handles EPRIB and ships radio registration.

Just one word of caution - at some point of time - you will be asked to 'mark' your vessel. The specifications on the website are for large commercial vessels. If we had gone by the size of lettering required it would have covered the enter saloon. Most signwriters involved in marine decals know the size for recreational vessels which is basically an A3 size.

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Old 07-06-2012, 12:05 AM   #9
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Yes, you can register your yacht in a foreign country, we have met many people who have done this. But they all had a very good reason like avoiding their own countries over strict rules, or afraid to fly their own countries flag, you can probably guess what countries. The most common countries used for reg were the US and Germany.
As an Aussie there is really no need to do this as Oz Registration is reasonably priced and simple enough to get, and there are not any extra hassles for Oz reg boats. Can't say the same about Oz passports I'm afraid.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexx View Post
Dude you got it all wrong ... you are not applying the correct definitions ... your private yacht comes under "ships permitted to be registered" at $1190, ships required to be registered are commercial vessels.
As noted above, if you mentioned an intention to travel outside Australian waters the vessel would then be required to be registered and the higher fee could be applied. I never trust a public servant to do the right thing.

Quote:
As you are applying for a new registration there is no transfer, also no change of ships name and no change in home port... you nominate those when applying for rego ...
I did say "if these (events) ever happen". My point was that there are possible future fees that parallel and duplicate state charges.

Quote:
you also do not need to apply for permission to fly the red ensign ...once registered you can fly it no probs ... you can fly the blue ensign or aussie flag whether registered or not.
OK, now this one has me puzzled. For whom is the listed $170 fee to fly the flag intended? See item 13 on the fees page.

Rob
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:48 AM   #11
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Ah, I found an answer to that on the application form. It's only required for unregistered ships. Note that the blue ensign can only be flown if a warrant from Her Majesty or the Admiralty was in force authorizing its use by the ship before 26 January 1982, etc, etc. See http://www.amsa.gov.au/Shipping_Regi..._for_Ships.asp

Also found some forms for notifying alterations to the ship. I have no idea whether fees apply to that, but if you even change the engine they need to be told. Suppose I had better do that before applying, mine needs replacement.

Rob
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:52 AM   #12
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Quote ""As noted above, if you mentioned an intention to travel outside Australian waters the vessel would then be required to be registered and the higher fee could be applied. I never trust a public servant to do the right thing."""

Your yacht comes under "ships permitted to be registered" have no fear of that ... you can actually sail overseas with your yacht without Australian registering it ... you risk paying import duties when you come back if you do that. You can also export your yacht without Australian Registration.

Your yacht does not come under the "Ships required to be registered" nor does any other privately owned yacht in Australia. Aussie rego is advised if wanting to sail outside aussie waters. Still your choice if you want to aust rego as it is your choice where you cruise.

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Old 07-08-2012, 04:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Your yacht comes under "ships permitted to be registered" have no fear of that ... you can actually sail overseas with your yacht without Australian registering it ... you risk paying import duties when you come back if you do that. You can also export your yacht without Australian Registration.
Sorry Lexx but the government disagrees with you.

"It is an offence for an Australian-owned vessel to sail for a foreign port unless it is registered in the Australian Register of Ships."

See Brochure - Yachts, Cruisers and Fishing Boats

Temporary passes are sometimes given for rallies like Darwin-Ambon, but the cost is usually in the order of $250 each way for a single trip. You'd only do it that way if you were pressed for time and didn't intend to travel overseas again in the foreseeable future.

Rob
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:18 AM   #14
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Hmmm things may have changed in recent years ... in the mid 90's I sailed on 2 separate yachts, both australian but not registered as such ... one went to Kupang and the other to Port Morsby. I did a one way on the Kupang one and both ways on the Morsby one. The owner on the Port Morsby trip did have some trouble re entering and was at odds about paying duty for some time... finally managing to avoid it.

Ahh well guess it may be rego time for you soonish then.

Lexx
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