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Old 08-29-2009, 11:00 AM   #15
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I strongly advise against your adding significant weight to either end of your boat. *You want weight to be relatively evenly distributed in the middle and lower part of the hull as possible. *Too much weight in the ends will cause the boat to hobbyhorse which is more than simply very uncomfortable. *Too much weight in the bow will make the boat tend to submarine in heavy seas.

sv Watermelon was a medium to light displacement boat, quick, nimble, and moderately tender with regard to weight distribution. *Our 75 gallons of water tankage were divided between a 50-gallon tank on the port side, 25-gallon tank on the starboard side. *When we set off on a crossing after filling all our tanks (fuel was on the centerline of the boat), a starboard tack was significantly more comfortable and faster, I'm sure due to the additional 200+ pounds of ballast on the starboard side. **

mv Watermelon is a light power catamaran. *Weight distribution is very important on her as well. *We improve speed and fuel efficiency by keeping the forward fuel tank as close to empty as possible, not always a practical idea if places to refuel are too far apart but well worth it if refueling is not an issue.

In general, even though boat design is always a compromise, there are usually trim and stability reasons for the dimensions and placement of its components, and changing them significantly can have unpleasant consequences.
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:21 PM   #16
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I agree.... watch out for putting too much weight in any one place... no matter where it is.... I have 50 gallons of water forward, 50 port, 50 starboard, 50 gallons of fuel in the stern... that's by design... I added 300ft of chain forward (about 700lbs) and noticed the bow drop about an inch and while she doesn't exactly "submarine" I can definitely tell it changed her motion comfort ratings... so when I go offshore I either leave the front water tank empty (if i won't need it) or use it first (if I will) (if i were doing a big crossing I'd move all the chain to the bilges) ...

... oh, and I've given her a list.... my electrics are on one side, my calorifier (waterheater) on the other... I added all my tools to the port lazerette and she now has about an inch list to port.... I thought about splitting them between both sides but my lockers are so big it would make for too much of a headache to get at things so I'm just living with the list since it's not enough to really affect anything.
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Old 08-29-2009, 03:31 PM   #17
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Speaking of lists, Sea Venture was designed with 200+ gallon-tanks on both sides for water and diesel. A former owner noted that the black iron fuel tanks had rusted, so he converted one of the 200-gallon fiberglass water tanks to diesel. When we bought the boat, we thought of replacing the rusted things -- which Michael removed with much smoke and soot -- but the space lent itself so nicely to all sorts of other gadgets and tanks -- holding tank and Electra Scan, water heater, day tank, big (big) watermaker, etc. With a 40-gph watermaker, we didn't really need more than 200 gallons of water, did we? And we are a sailboat (though sometimes in the Sea of Cortez, we've doubted that when sailing meant drifting for days on end), so why would we need to motor (in windless conditions/flat seas, mind you) further than 1000+ miles without a fill up? We do have a 100 gallon pillow bladder which we could use if we realized we had to motor more than 1000 miles, but so far it was only filled for the delivery from Cabo to SF Bay.

Anyway, the listing takes place when we've filled the diesel tank and perhaps the holding tank (port side), not filled the day tank (starboard side) and are in-between water maker runs with a half-full water tank (starboard side), a condition that happened fairly often in the Magote near La Paz, as one would not want to make water there. Diesel is lighter than water (who would have thunk?), so the diminution of water has more effect.
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:16 AM   #18
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Hello everyone! Well, I just got back from a week and a half road trip looking at boats al over the west coast. Starting at santa cruz and going all the way to san diego! we looked at in total 19 different boat and got a ton of different information. We ended the trip on the 6th where Shannon and I took out the mason 43 and went on a beautiful day trip in the bay! So, now I have lots of cool/crazy/fun/mind-blowing ideas about these boats, we have gotten our eyes on three.

1st our favorite:

Twister 28, 1986 this boat is a beauty, small but well layed out and well taken care of. has everything already to go on a big trip. Full Keel boat, just reminds me of a mini mason.

2nd

S&S Houghes 38:

the biggest boat we looked at, also the oldest coming in at 1969, this boat needed some cosmetic work, but nothing too serious, had all the rigging redone in 08 including mast and chainplate, with new harken self tailing winches. NICE

3rd

Golden Gate 30 custom 1991

Another great looking boat, has tons of tankage 120 gal of water 40 gal of fuel, great shape, boat is also ready to sail, very stout and just a great looking cruiser.

now any opinions on these would be great, all the prices are quite similar, and we would be really happy with any on the three. One thing to mention is that all of them except the golden gate lacked a U shape galley. I couldnt stand in any of them, but Shannon could. The Houghes Need some TLC, and is not sail ready for at least two months of work until i would be comfortable. Out of al of the boats I really felt like a connection with the 28, we just seemed to fit on the boat, and be happy. But lets get serious here, these boats have nothing in them. once we have all of our crap ( not much, we will be taking very minimal clothing), food, guitar, 2 sets of dive gear, 4 person life raft, compressor, tackle, extra sails, wil there be room for the two people to stay on the 28, out of all the boats she did have the most bilge space, and she had a lot of storage under the v and aft bunk. Any thoughts are great!

Thanks,

Jon
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:40 AM   #19
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Hughes 38 - what engine ? They did come out with an Atomic 4 Gasoline (petrol) engine.

Who built this one ? least favourite.

The Golden Gate 30 Custom built 1991

Who built this one ? Odyssey ? Where ?

SV Kiana did a circumnavigation

More expensive than your favourite

The English Twister 28 boat built by Tyler.

So its a toss up between the smallest boat and the newest at $7,500 more.

What is worth the money difference on the Golden Gate ?
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:09 AM   #20
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Well, the Golden gate is a Chuck Burns design. really the only thing I liked about the golden gate better than the twister is the headliner(Nice all teak) and the opening brass ports.

The Hughes has a Westerbeke diesel that you can eat off of, very nice.

to answer your question not much between the golden gat and Twister, whats you opinion on the size factor?

Jon
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonneely View Post
to answer your question not much between the golden gat and Twister, whats you opinion on the size factor?

Jon
Hi Jon,

Had a look at the specs to get feel for space - if one takes the Golden Gate's LWL and multiplies it by the beam - the square footage comes to around 235 square ft - whereas the Twister's only comes to around 175 sq ft. That extra 60 square feet can make all the difference! Depending where it is located.

Of course the other factor is the average height between the saloon sole and the head lining, If it averaged 6ft throughout the boat - then the cubic footage result would indicate another significant difference between the 2 boats.

Despite the above figures, only a close inspection and measurement of easy to get at storage lockers, cupboards, drawers etc.., relative to the other open space, will provide the answers Shannon and you are looking for.

Did you take lots of pictures ??

Richard
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:33 AM   #22
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that is a good point, I took tons of pictures, what would you like to know/see?

here are the ones from the golden gate, the twisters are still up loadinghttp://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x300/jonneelyfilms/goldwn%20gate%2030/

then the hughes

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x300/jo...ms/houghs%2038/

Jon
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:51 AM   #23
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and for the twister

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x300/jo...8/Twister%2028/

Jon
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:38 AM   #24
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Hard to gain a real feel from the Pictures (By the way they take for ever to down load)

True the Hughes 38 engine looked good, compared to the large RUSTED Pipe in the Golden Gates engine compartment.

The age of these boats must be an important decider - The Hughes is too old but is better fitted out, the Golden Gate's survey may show up some expensive problems.

The small boat - if one was comparing it with similar boats of the same era and size - then it would do well (for me, don't really like the engine compartment in the saloon) What are the winches and other sailing gear like on this boat ?
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:48 AM   #25
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the twister has one of everything, main, genoa 130, and spinnaker, all in decent condition, good ground tackle, all new electronics, gps, chartplotter radar, rigging redone in 07 winches are 2 speeds, 6 of them all together.

Jon
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:49 AM   #26
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Well you cannot add wheel steering to either the Hughes or the Twister > The specs don't mention Autopilot for Hughes - but an old Navico for the Twister.

Would you add 2 self-tailers and an electric windlass to the Twister? Also a Hard Dodger and Bimini to all 3?

Are you intending to go offshore cruising? Which would be the best boat to handle rough weather?

Finally remember Fred's comments about older boats - Out with the Hughes.

When it comes to selling a boat - 30ft will have more appeal than a 28ft.

So Jon, you set a tough assignment for those of us, who were not with you on your search.

Therefore my choice if forced to make one, would be the Golden Gate
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Old 09-09-2009, 04:32 PM   #27
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thanks for the ideas, Im thinking the same thing with the hughes, I will keep you guys updated. I need to get the rest of my cash together because I will be offering full in cash, seeing that you have the most experience on this thread when it comes to buying, and your a mod o you see a lot of thing on the board itself, If i where to come at the broker with a cash offer, what should I be aiming at? Pm what you think if you could, that would be great. the owner has had it up for sale for the last year, he lives in canada so it is just a useless payment, and we are heading into winter.

Tell me what you think,

Jon
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:58 PM   #28
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The broker works for the seller, but it wouldn't hurt to ask him what his feeling is about the offer you are considering making. Except for a very stubborn friend who waited 3 years to get an offer he would accept, most owners want to be done with the boat they've put up for sale. If he has had no offers to date he might want to hold out a bit longer than if he had already turned down an offer.

Your offer should be contingent upon a survey, and from stories I've heard in the past, you would be prudent to find your own surveyor, not one recommended by the broker. You'll need a survey if you plan to insure the hull anyway, and I think it's money well spent.

Good luck.

J
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