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Old 09-09-2009, 06:25 PM   #29
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""The broker works for the seller""

Do not forget that statement....

I've found that brokers will resist and advise against a low ball offer.

It cuts into their commision....

Always put an offer in contingent on a survey and final buyer examination. Gives you an out until the end...

Do as much research on the following items as you did to find the boat:

~ Find out what the same boat has sold for recently.

~ Find out how long the boat has been on the market. Get into "Boat Wizard"; if you can find a password.

~ Find an independant surveyor, not a broker recommended one, get referrals.

~ Contact insurance companies for quotes and surveyors

Start your offer low and allow the owner to counter your offer with a lower asking price.

It's a buyers market and it looks like that is not going to change for a while.

If you cannot come to terms, there are many many boats with and without 4 sale signs that are FOR SALE.....

fred
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:29 PM   #30
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I am going through a similar situation and the broker works for the seller, and you have zero grounds to protect yourself. Get a buyers broker, in other words find someone to represent you and then the commission will have to be split between the brokers. This way you will be protected somewhat, do get a survey and sea trial, and make certain that the sale is contingent on the results of the survey and sea trial. Also add a personal inspection clause, this way you can walk away from the deal if you do not like the boat or something happens in your life that forces a change. You can bet the the sellers broker is protecting the seller in a similar manner.

Put your deposit into an escrow account that is not paid to the seller until all your terms have been met and while you have outstanding contingencies and dates you can pull out of your purchase for whatever reason.

Buying a boat is an exciting time but the process for me has been long and arduous.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:23 AM   #31
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Hi Jon,

Some good buying advice from Fred and Gavin (which we can add to "steps in buying a boat"

click HERE

Good Luck
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:13 PM   #32
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I will leave it to others more knowledgeable about boat types to comment on your selection. My one comment is that 30 feet and below seems a bit small to carry all of what you need for a boat doing international cruising. Extra anchors, more chain, more rode,more fenders, a dingy, plus extra water jugs (to back up your single tank should it spring a leak) diesel jugs, etc, so if you budget can stand it, I would go a touch bigger just to have the storage and weight carrying capacity. The Westsail 32 is about the smallest boat in overall length I think that is really capable of carrying the requirements for an international cruising boat. I amnot recommending that type boat but just mention it to give you an idea of where my mind is taking me on this thought.

Fourty gallons of fresh water is a good amount for a single guy, even for a couple, one rule of thumb I have heard is a gallon a day per person for a passage. I have cruised/lived aboard for almost 20 years, and I never used that much water on passages, but you need to plan for more than use for safety issues. This assumes you are doing all the water conservation things other posters have mentioned. Remenber you will probably have several water jugs as a back in case the main tank decides to fill the bilge!

Have fun

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Old 09-10-2009, 02:31 PM   #33
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This assumes you are doing all the water conservation things other posters have mentioned. Remenber you will probably have several water jugs as a back in case the main tank decides to fill the bilge!
A bit off topic, but that happened to us once, and did we feel foolish! It wasn't a beginner's mistake is what I mean. We simply forgot to turn off the freshwater pump and a hose came loose and the pump pumped all the fresh water into the bilge.

Since you need jerry jugs to bring water to your boat in many places of the world, our practice is to keep those jerry jugs filled with water while on a passage, so that even in the worst case we will have 10 gallons of water. May as well carry them full as empty, they take up the same amount of space.

Another comment. I missed your expectation of sailing into the higher latitudes. You're going to want a heater for that, and they take up a lot of room! A 30' boat doesn't seem big enough to spare that kind of space.

J
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:34 PM   #34
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HA!... just had the exact same thing happen to e the other day... left the water pump on and a hose burst, lost 50 gallons of water into the bilges... didn't realize it till we got in and wanted to use the water... pump just kept running and running... "what the heck, the tank is empty!" lifted up a floor-board and sure enough another there was our empty water tank floating out eggs and beer nicely around the bilges...

fortunately we're coastal so no biggy... and the bilges are the cleanest they've ever been...

back on topic.... Now that I have a monohull I often look covetously at the few bilge keelers I see.... sure would be nice to be able to just run up on the beach or into shallow areas and sit down at low tide for protection from the storm that's coming through... just another option I haven't heard anyone voice.... bilge keelers have a bad rep for some reason but they were in fact designed for heavy seas and setting down in dried up anchorages... I have a friend who sailed one for 20+ years in the north sea salmon fishing, he loved her and never had a doubt aobut her sea worthiness... most are smaller but their are some 30 odd footers out there.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:18 AM   #35
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Well you cannot add wheel steering to either the Hughes or the Twister > The specs don't mention Autopilot for Hughes - but an old Navico for the Twister.

Would you add 2 self-tailers and an electric windlass to the Twister? Also a Hard Dodger and Bimini to all 3?

Are you intending to go offshore cruising? Which would be the best boat to handle rough weather?

Finally remember Fred's comments about older boats - Out with the Hughes.

When it comes to selling a boat - 30ft will have more appeal than a 28ft.

So Jon, you set a tough assignment for those of us, who were not with you on your search.

Therefore my choice if forced to make one, would be the Golden Gate
Alright! well thanks for al the responses, Ill take into account what you guys are saying about the water issue. I truly think Shannon and I can make the 28 footer work, in all honesty the floor-plan is almost identical to the golden gate and i dont find the two boats much different when it comes to size and stowage, if anything the twister has more room, it had much more bilge space, plus the Golden gate had Worm steering in the back, while I like that kind of linkage for a wheel system, you loose all of you aft space to it, the twister had a external rudder therefor it has lots of space in the stern. thats a plus, when it comes to a hard dodger, I guess it would be a good idea, although I would like to just keep the sunbrella, I will be putting a bimini on it tho, also If i come across two self-tailing winches Ill pick them up at a decent price maybe used, and then try to sell the older ones. and I think that would be a negative on a electric windlass, Im young and fit, and if an anchor of a 28 footer sets me back, I need to get into a more lazy sport/hobby.

Thanks, and any other comments or ideas are great!

Jon
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:39 AM   #36
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Well Jon and Shannon,

All the best for the next phase, getting a surveyor organised (preferably one who has surveyed this type of boat - year wise) Making a provisional offer (for that vintage around 12% off the asking price) It looks a a well kept boat.

Keep us posted and good luck !!!

I have a full parts list for the volvo engine if you need it.
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:46 AM   #37
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Hello again, well some bad news, we did get into offering for the twister, but we where out bided by another buyer, now that can always fall apart but it just had its sea trial and is waiting for a survey.... So the look continues. I went to the bay area this weekend to look at a few other boats that just came on the market and I am having some troubles finding info about them. on boat I can find almost zero info on is a NZ boat called a compass 29??? any links or help on that would be awesome! also I found a Seafarer 31'1'' and would like to hear any comments on her. I found more info a about the latter but any other fun facts would be great!

Thanks,

Jon
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:07 AM   #38
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A good resource for you - all about buying a boat: HERE

It covers just about everything - compiled by a boat surveyor.

Keep us updated on your progress.
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