Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-07-2012, 05:54 AM   #1
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default Parachute sea anchors

I'm going to buy a parachute style sea anchor prior to setting off across the Pacific next year. There are a few different brands on the market. West Marine and Defender sell the PARA-TECH. They seem to cost significantly less than some others on the market and I wonder if this is due to lower quality, or just better buying power.


Has anyone used a sea anchor to heave to in storm conditions and if so, what brand do you have and, given similar storm conditions in the future, would you use the same brand?


Also when you have used one of these devices, were there any problems deploying and retrieving it, and did it perform as you expected? Did you use a trip line for retrieval?


I have all the theoretical knowledge regarding parachute anchors, but I have no practical experience. I would like to hear from those who have genuine experience with them in heavy weather.
__________________

__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #2
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Home Port: Portland
Vessel Name: Endurance of Portland
Posts: 9
Default

Hi Dave,

My penny worth:

Getting the wavelength right is hugely important to reduce snatching.

You must have good quality, well secured hardware to take the pressures.

Consider using a bridle to share the load around the boat. The rescue services will always try to use a bridle when towing for this reason.

Personally, I would always run, given sufficient sea-room. Reduced apparent wind and not as battering as taking it all on the nose.

Regards Graham
__________________

__________________
Forget the storm........dance in the rain
Endurance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 01:22 AM   #3
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default

Since making the decision to buy a para-anchor I have been beset by experienced offshore sailors who question the Pardey style committment of the sea anchor in storm conditions. Indeed I have just read a Hal Roth book (How to Sail Around The World) where he gives several compelling reasons why a parachute anchor should not be used.

Instead he promotes the Jordan series drogue which is the subject of many independent studies, something which appears to be lacking in literature concerning para-sea anchors. The USCG is perhaps the biggest credible fan of the Jordan system.

I am going to shelve my plan to buy a 'chute and although there is still some personal prevarication on the subject, I feel at this time, I will probably opt for the Jordan thingy.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 01:55 AM   #4
De Captain
 
Lance Gettler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Home Port: STT
Vessel Name: Currently, whatever they pay me to sail
Posts: 10
Default

Just came her to post whether you'd considered a drogue after reading your op. We carried one, largely because of cost (since we sewed & assembled it ourselves).

The benefits I liked were:

We were able to buy a kit and sew it ourselves ( though I doubt my brother would say that was a benefit since he did most of the work)

It is made up of small cones which can't really collapse like a sea anchor and it isn't 1 big parachute that could become tangled or tear.

It isn't an all or nothing proposition. A drogue is made up of a bunch of tiny parachutes and you can deploy some or all of them as needed.

Once deployed you can simply retrieve part of it by grinding it in on a winch as opposed to an anchor which is all or nothing. The small cones will grind right onto a winch just like any other line.

At least those were all of the selling points. I've always chosen to run off instead but it was one of those things that was nice to have onboard and even nicer to never use.
__________________
Ask Me Anything About Sailing Around The World
Lance Gettler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 11:25 PM   #5
Rear Admiral
 
Coyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Home Port: San Jose, CA
Vessel Name: Coyote
Posts: 215
Default

As far as I can tell with my utterly non-existant experience in really bad weather, the truth is nobody really knows.

I've been beaten up a bit coming north past Conception a couple times, but that is mostly just uncomfortable, not dangerous, so I don't count it as experience.

There is no real laboratory where different designes or methods can be truly compared side by side on a wide variety of boats in a wide variety of conditions with measurable and measured criteria.

My guess is that in a really bad situation you do what you can with what you have aboard and it will either work or it won't. If it works, you have no way to know if something else would have been better or worse.

If it doesn't work, you won't be reporting any data.

If the situation isn't bad enough to be really dangerous, it isn't a great experiment and we can't trust that data.

Weather is funny, too. Waves and wind do so many different things that one experience might not translate well to another. Cross-hatched huge waves with a short period? Or two different short periods with a beat frequency from hell? Might happen some time and will be very different from long period regular waves, however big.

Or a million other things that nobody thinks of. Have a strong boat, pick the right day. Maybe carry a few things to try.
__________________
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: San Diego
Coyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:09 AM   #6
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default

I confess that prior to reading Pardey's book on heavy weather, I was happy with my existing knowledge. I have been belted a few times and have never had any trouble running before the sea. I never felt imperiled, never had any serious round-ups surfing down a wave, and although I've been caught in brown trousers weather, I always felt in control.

Tiredness was a factor as I sailed within the limit of a hurricane and had to hold the handlebars for 30 hours. I would have hove-to but I didn't feel confident, given the sea state, in turning the boat head to wind....and I had plenty of sea room.

But then came the Pardey's book. It speaks seemingly of miracles when using the parachute anchor and, as these things often do, it created a desperate need where non had existed before. Now there are more people speaking of their danger than there are promoting them as the ultimate heavy weather safety device. I wish I had never heard of the bloody things! They put questions in my mind that had not previously been of any concern.

So to the Jordan Series Drogue.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 10:11 AM   #7
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Home Port: Stockton, MO
Vessel Name: Ceilidh
Posts: 160
Default

Auzzie, I own both, and would go with the Jordan if I could only carry one! You really need alot of gear to properly setup the Para-tech. A large float is necessary, and it all takes up valuable space. I have one because I was on the dock when someone couldn't afford to pay crew... Gave them the Para-tech... Which they promptly sold to me for pennys on the dollar. I like those situations!

But... The Jordan allows you to increase or decrease the load by how much you put out there! Best of the options in my mind... Ensure that you buy (or make) one longer than your needs, (or tailor it for your specific boat). I do deliveries, so I try to have gear that will work on many different vessels. Again, a place where the Jordan shines!

You can make multiple smaller ones to run in series or tandem also! Clean line (without the pockets) handles best on the winches of course.
__________________
Wildernesstech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 11:20 AM   #8
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default

Thanks WNT, I value your judgement. I like the idea of a tandem rig if for no other reason than ease of retrieval, with no lessening of effective drag.

With a tandem set up, would you deploy one from each side on a single line, rather than dual bridles?
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:56 PM   #9
Rear Admiral
 
Coyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Home Port: San Jose, CA
Vessel Name: Coyote
Posts: 215
Default

One data point: In all his years and all his miles, Larry has never lost a boat. Lucky? Careful? Good? Who knows.
__________________
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: San Diego
Coyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 09:38 PM   #10
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Gone Troppo
Posts: 103
Default

We have carried a parachute for 13 years and only used it once. It worked perfectly and we were glad we had it. We used a fender for the float and then another fender on the end of the trip line, both with swivels. It was much easier to recover than we expected although the wind was still quite high. We will continue to carry the parachute as it made a huge difference to the boats happiness!!
Can give no advice about which brand to buy as quality may have changed.
Advertising seems to have a huge affect on what is bought, more than design or construction quality, so best to have a look at some to compare first.
We used ours in a Typhoon, Cat 2 I think, and after retrieval we were doing 14kts under bare poles.
Parachutes work as do the other methods of handling strong winds, you just have to choose the method you use for the conditions you have.
Fair Winds.
__________________
Happy Sailing,

Stephen

Crowther Windspeed 36

www.gonetroppo.org
GoneTroppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 03:06 AM   #11
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default

Hi Stephen, it's always good to hear from you! Did you use the Pardey's technique of lying 50 degrees off the wind, or did you stay head up as close as possible?

Coyote qyote: "Larry has never lost a boat". A very good point, and there can be no doubting both Lyn and Larry's exceptional level of seamanship.

I'm confused!
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 07:45 AM   #12
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Home Port: Portsmouth
Vessel Name: No Worries
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
I'm confused!
Not speaking from experience but it seems to me that they both have advantages in different situations. The parachute is what you would want if you didn't have the sea room to run or are short handed and tired. The series drogue is for running with lots of sea room and the ability / crew to helm for long periods.
__________________
steve_h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 11:59 PM   #13
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Home Port: Gisborne
Vessel Name: Balaena Bay
Posts: 88
Default

There was a guy single handing down the west coast of NZ last year who got hit by 2 storms. He was 70 miles off and still had to call the coastguard who managed to get to him. He had a drogue but was still moving at 3 knots towards a lee shore and the storm was forcast to last for 24 hours or more.
Its hard to say for sure but one wonders if he had a sea anchor deployed whether he may indeed have been ok.
Apparently in these storms the surface water moves quite fast in the same direction as the wind so the anchor may not have helped much.
__________________
danblu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 12:10 AM   #14
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Gone Troppo
Posts: 103
Default

G'day David,
We had a bridle that kept the bow head up. But as you know the wind in a TRS comes in gusts and varies direction a bit, so we were not always pointing exactly into the largest wave set.
With todays weather information so readily available I wonder if you would really need to spend the money?? But I guess that is another discussion.
Have fun mate.
__________________
Happy Sailing,

Stephen

Crowther Windspeed 36

www.gonetroppo.org
GoneTroppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #15
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Home Port: Stockton, MO
Vessel Name: Ceilidh
Posts: 160
Default

Hello again Auzzie,

Some really great points have been made here, and I love the learning curve as usual... As for the tandem Drogues, that would all depend on conditions BUT they can easily become tangled (just like two fishing lines often due without outriggers) and I have never tried it. If off of a lee shore in a big blow the chute looks to have the advantages! I guess that is why I have been carrying both. I have always been lucky, and have nothing compared to the miles of the Pardeys, and many others. I love the idea of using fenders instead of hauling an extra large float! I strongly suggest the trip line, as I have a friend who failed to rig one, and have listened to his story of that misadventure too many times.

Both take up a bit of room, and you can run off with something you tie to for resistance and warp out plain line even, but you can't magically whip up a parachute at sea... I am rethinking a few things myself!!!
__________________
Wildernesstech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 01:56 AM   #16
Ocean Senior Sailor
 
piclarke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Home Port: Auckland
Posts: 48
Default

Try reading this site and testomonials.


W A Coppins - Award winning designers of Para Sea Anchors


Rated as the best in the world. Comes in it's own compact bag and with floats all fit into a carry bag.

As a poster has already stated setting the right distance and position on a wave back is the answer. The site explains it all. Has a testomonial from one who hug through a 300 + klm hurricane.
__________________
"Let the sun shine, let the rain cease, let the lakes and rivers run dry, let the droughts continue so 2015AD, 2016AD & 2017AD Now!!
piclarke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 09:05 PM   #17
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Home Port: Gisborne
Vessel Name: Balaena Bay
Posts: 88
Default amazing story , drogue related.

Here's a link to the survivors own account of a rescue off the west coast (raglan) New Zealand. It will make you think hard about sea room.
Crew.org.nz • View topic - Solo sailor rescued off Raglan
__________________
danblu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 07:36 AM   #18
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
Default

Thanks danblu. You say the story is drogue related, but I see no reference to drogues or sea anchors and am not quite sure of the relevence to the topic. My understanding is that he turned to head out to sea, but the height of the waves and frequency of fronts prevented him from gaining searoom.

I note also he abandoned ship 50 kilometers off the coast. The footage of the rescue shows heavy seas but not so huge that the boat couldn't be put head to sea. But even drifting onshore at 3 knots, that would still give him 8 hours before he would have hit bottom.

It's unfair to comment without the full story and a 90 second TV job is not going to provide that. He's fine anyway and that's the main thing.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2012, 08:41 AM   #19
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Home Port: Gisborne
Vessel Name: Balaena Bay
Posts: 88
Default

Try page 6, scroll down to yachtyacca, there's a full description of the whole thing by Alan, the guy rescued. He had a drogue deployed off the aft end and tried using the engine in reverse. He was well prepared and did all the correct actions. I wonder if a sea anchor might just have been enough. The whole forum topic is well worth a read, some very experienced sailors commenting.
__________________

__________________
danblu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DROGUES AND SEA ANCHORS Chetan Other Equipment 31 04-27-2020 02:04 AM
Recall Of Rocna Anchors Lighthouse General Cruising Forum 9 05-16-2012 04:18 PM
Para Anchors And Bowsprits mico Other Equipment 12 03-06-2009 03:58 PM
Living Aboard With Storage Anchors Trim50 Living Aboard 18 12-23-2007 12:20 AM
Anchors Piotrek General Cruising Forum 36 02-11-2007 03:29 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
×