Private purchase questions

[Bajamas]

My wife and I were in contract for a 32' Pearson Vanguard until the survey came back with some bad news on the structural integrity of the boat. We pulled out and continued looking. By luck we came across a boat that had been on our list as an alternate boat, equivalent to the Pearson and wanted to move on it but things here are a little different. This is a private owner who is looking to sell the boat as is. There is no Broker that will mind the deposit in an escrow account or to write contracts with.

We made an offer on the boat and it was accepted. There was an "In Water" survey done on the vessel and everything looked really good. Just some minor things to take care of. We told the owner that we would NOT be sending a deposit since we didn't feel comfortable in doing so without an escrow account but instead will bring a bank certified check for the full amount to the "Closing". I then asked about Title and a contract or agreement that we would both sign since I didn't feel right about not having some type of agreement between us so that there are certain things in writing.

I am not sure exactly how a boat deal goes with a private owner but I am assuming that he will sign the Title over to us, sign a bill of sale, sign our agremeent and we should be Jake right??

He informed us that the boat WAS registered with the USCG but he let that lapse last year, however, since the boat WAS ONCE registered, the Title and another form will need to be filled out and sent to the USCG before we get the Title back. Is that normal?? I assume, like a car, that if there wasn't clean title, it would show a lean holder on the title that he brings to the closing?

We thought about hiring a broker to go thru but I really didn't know if it was worth it.

Any suggestions on how a smooth private sale should go?

Bajamas

[Gallivanters]

Congratulations Scott & Bev!

I'm certainly no expert, but...

At this time, I believe it would be in your best interest to call the USCG NVDC (at the number shown below) and ask for Form CG-1332 General Index Or Abstract Of Title which will list builder, dates & all documented owners of the vessel... those of which they are aware of, anyway. You'll have to pay a small fee.

Next, when you meet the seller, have him take you and the vessel out for a sea trial.

Next, hire a local Accredited Marine Surveyor of your choosing and have him perform a survey which includes a "sling haul".

Next, if you're still happy and wish to continue:

Go to USCG website and then enter the National Vessel Documentation Center (NVDC), download the following forms and send originals to:

Form CG-1340 Bill of Sale - Both sign & submit.

Form CG-1258 Application for Exchange or Redocumentation - You sign & submit.

Form CG-4593 Satisfaction of Mortgage - Both sign & submit.

Send Original forms - THEY DO NOT ACCEPT COPIES. to:

United States Coast Guard - NVDC - 792 T Jackson Drive - Falling Waters, WV - 25419 - phone (304) 271 2400 - fax (340) 271 2405

You will need to include a check. It cost us $100 two years ago.

If you wish to change the name - now is the best time to do so.

It's a good idea to notorize everything and keep copies.

Next - the vessel will likely also be registered in the state where berthed, so when you meet with the seller - it would be a good idea for yawl to go together to the local DMV and tell them that you're buying this vessel (show 'em the papers) from Him. Everybody sign the transfer of title in their presence and wait for a new title to be typed up with your name on it.

Lastly - go back to the harbor pub and buy each-other a few rounds of drinks because you'll both be celebrating One of the Two Happiest Days of a Boatowner's Life!

And it's a nice gesture to let the seller know that he's always invited to come out and join you for a sail... he can definitely help with your learning curve.

Enjoy!

Kirk

[Bajamas]

Kirk,

thanks for all the info.

We have already learned most of this quickly (like this morning), and have already aquired all the proper documentation. The abstract of title was ordered this morning. Should take 2 days.

Here is the question regarding the Title; The owner is in Boston, we are in Penna. and the boat is in Maryland. We are meeting in Connecticut to finalize the paperwork so there isn't any way to get both of us together in the state DMV where the vessel is currently on the hard.

Can all the paperwork be done by the owner and I, then sent to the USCG? Will this present any problems??

Bajamas

[Gallivanters]

Scott,

Greetings from St Thomas.

I'm certainly not an expert... nor an attorney, but...

to the best of my knowledge - a Certificate of Documentation issued by the federal government is a more bonafide "title" than any state registration.

I believe that as long as the Abstract from the NVDC shows the seller as the last documented owner... you should be alright to proceed with the purchase of your new magic carpet.

The Devil's Advocate would probably advise you to speak to a waterfront lawyer, who may suggest you set up an escrow account through him, which would hold all funds, contingent on receipt of the Certificate of Documentation in your name.

We have both federal and local registrations for our newer boat because the USVI require us to do so.

But other states may have different deals for boat owners.

Death & Taxes...

I hear Delaware is a good state to call home port.

Probably best to take your Certificate of Documentation to the local DMV of your home state and see what they have to say, or ask around at the marina where you intend to keep the vessel... or better yet - provision your new yacht, quit your jobs and plot a course for the Caribbean! You'll be glad you did.

I suppose there are pros and cons relating to Fed Docs vs State Regos and I'd like to hear other boat owners opinions on the matter.

FTR - We departed Guam on our last boat with a long expired Hawaiian registration card and no certificate of federal documentation. No serious issues ever came up while checking into countless ports across three oceans. On the few occasions when an official pointed out the fact that the card was way past the expiration date... we said that we were just sailing home...

I'm sure everything will work out better than you immagine.

Happy Sailing,

Kirk

[Bajamas]

Abstract of Title from the Coast Guard was received this morning and everything is clean.

Survey looks good so we're OFF TO THE CLOSING!!

Now we just have to figure out where to register the thing!

Boat is in MD, We are in PA, Owner is in MA, boat will be registered and berthed in NY......could this get any more confusing?!?

Bajamas

[JeanneP]

If it's documented, keep it that way! Forget state registration. CG requires you to name a "home port" but that means little regarding where the boat is, or even your legal address. You may never travel too far, but federal documentation is safer if you do.

[krissteyn]

Been a while since in the US of A - what about a registered lien on the boat ? how would you check that ? is it on the updated title ?

[JeanneP]

I'm pretty sure that such a registered lien must be on the documentation papers - that's the way it always was. You can verify by going to the USCG web site

[Bajamas]

I have found that ordering an Abstract of Title from the USCG on a vessel that has been documented will show ALL owners of the vessel and a % of ownership.

My question is whether a documented vessel will still have a "Title" or whether the documentation is the "Title" held by the USCG.

It appears that even after documentation expires on a vessel, the "Bill of Sale" MUST go thru the Coast Guard to transfer ownership.

BTW, My wife and I are now the Very Proud new owners of a Bristol 32 called Bajamas!!

Bajamas

[steelfan]

Congratulations - it is a fraught time isn't it !

Unfortunately, it is too late to add my advice, but it would be to select your surveyor very carefully (best on personal recommendation and sight of a previous report) and clearly specify what you want reporting on. I recently got a report which was worth very little - told me how many cabins and anchors (I can count as well), got several things wrong and about 2% was useful - mainly the hull thickness survey (steel boat). This in Singapore. If you have a survey report, do not rely on it, check yourself everything that you can check.

A few months ago we nearly bought a beautiful schooner, but at the last minute found it was the subject of a dispute between apparant owner and someone else who claimed he was owed big money for work done on the yacht. This in Croatia.