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Old 01-22-2008, 01:16 PM   #1
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Hello everyone,

I haven't posted in a while since our boat (Bajamas, our Bristol 32) has been put on the hard for the last year awaiting some work that I will need to do this year before we splash.

I will have MANY questions this year and hope that all will be a bit tolerant of me while I get down to the nuts and bolts of my work requirements.

My first question is in regards to our roller furling boom that appeared on the early models of some sailboats. I didn't even know I had a roller furling boom until I took inventory of the sails only to discover none of them had any reef points!? I then went back to the boom to discover the gearing in the boom. I did much research on where I could get the boom roller handle that was missing when I purchased and could only find one outfit in the UK where I could purchase from. My thought was that I may do without this feature and simply have my reef points put in at our local sailshop. Is this recommended? Has anyone done this? My wife and I are more simple sailors and subscribe to the idea that the fewer complicated systems on our boat the better (More sailing and less time spent with my head stuck in some confined space trying to contort myself further with wrench in hand). Will the fact that the boom is meant to rotate cause me any grief?

Another question I have deals with rebedding some of the deck hardware. After the purchase of the boat, I had noticed a bit of wobble in one of the stanchions (the one that everyone must have grabbed while boarding the boat in the past), and found that the nuts on the underside could be spun by hand. I asked some questions at my marina and received totally different answers to what should be done and what should be used. I ended up using the 3M-4200 by removing the stanchion and rebedding from above and below the deck. Is this the proper way to rebed the stanchion and can I do this with other pieces of hardware on deck??

Thanks in advance and please be patient with me this year!

Bajamas
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
I will have MANY questions this year and hope that all will be a bit tolerant of me while I get down to the nuts and bolts of my work requirements.
Bring them ALL - our members love sharing information when they can. Good luck with all the job-cards before the "splash".
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:07 PM   #3
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After several years of evaluating cost-benefit of boom furling systems, we decided that a good lazy jack system and cradle where the best overall solution. I figured that a boom furling system with new main sail for our boat would run around $17K to $18K when all was said and done. We ended-up spending about $4200 on a UK Sail Lazy Cradle.

trimonmooring3_scale_1_.jpg

We are very pleased with how well and easy it works.

http://www.ukhalsey.com/sails/cradle.asp

With respect to stantion bedding, did you use stainless steel back plates? 3M-5200 is what we used.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:26 PM   #4
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Roller furling was very popular for a while but, and here's the catch, it is not quick to do and your sail's shape suffers. Also, you cannot use a kicker with roller furling. As far a systems go it is very reliable - providing you don't drop your last handle overboard

If you have an interest for reefing systems then I suggest you look at in-boom reefing (check this site in Denmark http://www.johnmast.dk/uk/ )or the Dutchman method (which is an advanced form of lazyjacks)

IMHO, go for slab reefing. It is simple, relatively cheap and easily installed retroactively and together with lazyjacks is bulletproof.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 01-22-2008, 09:57 PM   #5
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Welcome!

About your boom roller reefing, I agree with Stephen that for a boat of your size, slab reefing is the way to go (together with lazyjacks). Both our boats had had roller reefing booms at one point or another and both were converted to slab reefing by previous owners before we came along. Familiar, no brainer, hard to mess it up with slab reefing. We don't have lazyjacks on the 30' boat, but manage reefing fine. The larger boat's split rig keeps sail sizes down, but still we have a 740 sf main that we have lazy jacks for.

About the re-bedding of stanchions and deck hardware (assuming this is NOT a metal hull/deck and we're talking about fiberglass or wood right?), while you're at it, you may want to make sure the little blocks of wood on the underside of the deck which they'll be bedded to are not rotted out. If there are NO bedding blocks of wood...you might wish to make and install some under the accessible stanchions to support them.

Using whatever bedding goop you're most comfortable with on the top is good. However, bedding the underside of the deck prevents you from learning that you've got a problem (by the drip, drip, drip off the bolts for example) until AFTER your deck core may be filled with water or rotting away. Suggest you keep the bedding googe on top and a watchful eye on things below.

If you use decent goop which doesn't totally weld it all together, you can inspect and re-bed from time to time without too much hassle.

Non-marine materials that work well include:

Tremco Vulkem 116 polyurethane sealant (find it at home/hardware stores for $3/ 10 oz caulk tube) works great and is long lasting for bedding stanchions with adequate flexibility and stickiness to metal, wood, painted surfaces etc. You can wax the bottom of the stanchion or anything else you want the googe peel off of, by the way.

If you're not a "goop" kinda person, you can also have great success with sealing stanchion bases and other fittings by cutting a piece of the (black, paper backed sticky) rubber/neoprene roof flashing to about 1/16" oversize and using it between the stanchion base and the deck. There are many brands with thickness ranging from about 1/16" to about 3/8". Mid-weight works best. The material is not vulcanized and this is soft/sticky all the way through. You use glue-stick, 3M spray adhesive on the top of the material (unsticky side) so you can stick it to your stanchion base in exactly the right position, then peel off the paper on the sticky side of the flashing and sit the stanchion on your deck. The sticky side is really sticky and you won't be repositioning it, by the way. The material self-seals around fasteners, so, no leaks.

Good luck with your projects and hope you enjoy the boat.

Good sailing!
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Old 01-22-2008, 10:22 PM   #6
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Hi There,

The boom questions well answered already, I think .

However , my questions to you :- is the boom in question still on the boat ? If it is, how do you presently put the main to bed ? A sail designed for INboom furling is usually very flat in shape so that it does not jam when being rolled up. There is no harm in putting in reefing grommets (cringles) if the leech permits, remembering the tremendous force that is applied to those points (the sailmaker may advise 'great difficulty' Also - difficulty may arise when designing and fitting reefings lines. Need some pictures. You might have to consider finding an ordinary boom.

"Another question I have deals with rebedding some of the deck hardware. I ended up using the 3M-4200 by removing the stanchion and rebedding from above and below the deck. Is this the proper way to rebed the stanchion and can I do this with other pieces of hardware on deck?? "



3M's 4200 is a one-part general all-purpose polyurethane that chemically reacts with moisture to deliver flexible bonds with good adhesion to wood, fiberglass, gelcoat, plastics and metals. 4200 forms watertight, weather resistant seals on joints and boat hardware above and below the waterline. It is approximately half the strength of 3M -5200.

Stanchions (specially gate stanchions !) need different treatment when bedding and fitting - depending on the deck material - they should have good sized backing plates to spread the loading force that they have to endure. A bar or a gusset at 90 degrees at the bottom is often seen on new stanchion bases. When bedding, the rule is generally to apply the compound to both sides - spreading it out equally - waiting until it starts to set, then fix and bolt down (the reason: if bolted immediately, the bedding compound is squeezed out) However, when bedding other components (which are not subject to lateral forces) consider using a bedding compound rather than an adhesive/bedding compound - 3m and Sikaflex have for that purpose.

Richard

PS : doubtless you have seen the Bristol Owners website ? - if not here is the path to the

Bristol 32 - I have not seen a forum but I guess there must be one :-

http://www.bristolowners.org/32/bristol32.html
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:16 AM   #7
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With respect to stantion back plates, we fabricated 1/8 stainless steel plates with holes water jet cut to match the hole patterns of the stantion base plates. I think you will find that you can get water jet cutting fairly cheap in most places these days. The most expensive part is the 316 stainless plate material. If there is something worth doing right, this would be it. Anything that loads the deck needs to be back plated IMHO.
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim50 View Post
With respect to stantion back plates, we fabricated 1/8 stainless steel plates with holes water jet cut to match the hole patterns of the stantion base plates. I think you will find that you can get water jet cutting fairly cheap in most places these days. The most expensive part is the 316 stainless plate material. If there is something worth doing right, this would be it. Anything that loads the deck needs to be back plated IMHO.
how large were your plates? I've seen wood fairly large spreading the load over a good size area of the deck. Haven't seen steel, but haven't been looking at many boats built after 1980.
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:41 PM   #9
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Many thanks for all the great suggestions. Here is a bit more information on some of these things:

The roller furling boom that came with the boat IS still on the boat. It is a setup that I have seen on other early model boats such as the Pearson Vanguard. When I first saw this type of furling system I thought it was a great idea but I did have thoughts on the stresses it would put on the mainsail. I considered keeping the system (as long as I could find extra handles for it - Very tough to get), but wanted to know if anyone had any experience in just leaving the boom locked in the upright position and going with actual reef points in the main for reefing.

The wobbly stanchioin (which is the main port side entry gate stachion) seemed to have worked its way loose over the years from everyone grabbing onto it for boarding. The main gate stanchions already had a SS backing plate to it but no angle bracket (which I like the idea of and may consider adding to all the gate stanchions). I was told that the 5200 would be too concrete and rebedding in the future would be nearly impossible but the 4200 would allow for a little more flex and with a bit of work, could be removed at some time in the future for rebedding if necessary. I applied the 4200 under the topside stanchion and had my wife hold that in place while I did the backingplate. I was told that it was important NOT to turn the bolts to tighten but to snug the nuts so as not to remove any of the sealant from the holes. I was happy with the results and the stanchion seems quite solid now. We avoid using the stanchions for boarding and I have created a web grab strap for that purpose.

A new question regarding external teak oiling. My wife and I spent last summer sanding and cleaning the teak toerail and coamings, trying to remove the nasty looking Cetol job. A neighboring boat asked what we were going to replace it with and told him (after spending hours in the heat), that I was going to paint everything black! (kidding but LOVED his expression ). He suggested Watco teak Oil. He said it is the only thing he uses on his $300,000 trawler, so we tried it. It turned out gorgeous, although at the end of the season, it looked like it really needed more work. Has anyone used this oil and if so, does it hold up to the suns UV and how often do you re-oil? I like the way it turned out and my wife suggested that all the teak had been neglected for so long that the wood REALLY needed it and probably drank it all up in the first few months.

Anyway, thanks a great deal for all the advice. I look forward to spending some quality time on this board in the near future!!

Bajamas
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:35 AM   #10
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loriondeck2_scale_1_.jpg

I use SEMCO on my teak decks. 1 application per year keeps it looking perfectly new.

I HIGHLY recommend it!

http://www.semcoteakproducts.com/semco_products.htm
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajamas View Post
The roller furling boom that came with the boat IS still on the boat. I wanted to know if anyone had any experience in just leaving the boom locked in the upright position and going with actual reef points in the main for reefing.

Bajamas
Hello Scott,

I believe that I misread your original info regarding the boom, taking it to mean an 'In Boom Furler - "Boom" ' of which there are many. After going back and re-reading, I now think I understand that you have a boom which is circular in section, around which the sail is wound to furl it completely or to furl it partially to reef it down in size. The Boom is turned by winding a gear at the boom's fore-end?

bajamas_1_07_06_scale.jpg

The foot of the sail is loose footed ? The clew is attached to a cleat on the side of the boom with an outhaul reeved through a block-sheeve at the end of the boom ? The sail's foot tensioned by using a small winch and then cleating off ? The mainsail's leech may have a small cord that is used to make minor adjustments - this is tied off into the clew or even onto the boom?

Mainsail_Outhaul.jpg

The leech does not have any reefing cringles/grommets ? Therefore with the present system when the sail is partially furled round the boom - the leech where it now reaches the boom further forward on the boom is NOT tensioned by an outhaul as one has in a conventional reefing system?

Returning to your original topic title " Roller Furling Boom, Can I do without it? "

The quick answer : YES - ie; a. don't use it to furl the sail - get a sailmaker to put in 3 reefing cringles/grommets at appropriate places on the leech (and on the luff to use as cunninghams). or

b. get mainsail to fit your mast and present boom - already designed for slab reefing with reefing points in place, and c. add reefing hardware and lines to the existing boom.

or d. find a conventional boom with sail to match existing mast.

-------------------------

I have also just caught on to BAJAMAS = Bahamas - a dream ?

I kept thinking Pyjamas - which by the way in the tropics :- light white cotton long sleeve long shorts = ideal for sailing.

Richard
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:20 PM   #12
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Richard,

BA-DA-BING! Yep. This is exactly what I have. Like I said, after thinking about it, I thought this was a good idea but I fear something going wrong with the gearing at the wrong time (the boat is 35 years old). I couldn't imagine this setup with a problem! Can I say NIGHTMARE, I think I can!!

Thanks for the advice! I may take up on it and make a change this year.

BTW Bajamas = Sitting in the Bahamas in my Pajamas!

Scott
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:53 PM   #13
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Trim,

That's a great looking lady...oops I mean teak deck you have there....LOLOLOL
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