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Old 07-18-2007, 09:54 PM   #1
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I presently have Boat US Insurance coverage, however I feel completely under insured. Boat US will not insure to full surveyed value because the boat is more than 20 years old.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Can someone recommend a better insurance company?
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Old 07-19-2007, 02:59 PM   #2
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Try www.gowrie.com 800-BOAT-911. or www.fitzpatrickagency.com 800-727-5050
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:41 PM   #3
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We use International Marine Ins. Services, imiscorp.net, 410-827-3757, Al Golden.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:20 PM   #4
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Believe it or not but we use Allstate. That's right the car insurance company. When my Pearson 40 broke lose from its mooring in a Nor'easter, they covered ALL the damage to my boat as well as the two boats mine hit as it cruised around the anchorage. The boat was 21 years old at the time and the crash into the last boat dislodged the anchor which set into his deck and just saved mine from the rocks. All new parts including rubrail and stanchions. The cost was over half the purchase price of the boat 2 years earlier.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:45 PM   #5
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A number of the regular insurance companies will insure a boat, but not a boat that is crossing an ocean. That's why we went with IMIS. There are others, I know.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:29 AM   #6
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I noticed Allstate will only cover boat within 100 miles of US or Canada.
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Old 07-20-2007, 07:08 AM   #7
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JeanneP uses a good one based in Europe - she will login in a day or two.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:55 PM   #8
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I already got a quote from IMIS and the rates are reasonable for cruising, however they are a bit high for someone that will be in California waters for another year.

My concern all started a few months ago. Good friends and neighbors on our dock (power boaters) just lost their boat to an electrical fire. They were under insured and are having a hell of a time getting back into a comparable boat. They lived on their boat and are somewhat in desperate ways. The funny thing is, his business is fire protection and he sold me all my automatic fire protection equipment and extinguishers.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:24 AM   #9
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www.lloyds.com

Lloyds will write any boat. You also get what you pay for. When you pay for Lloyds you get the best.
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:11 PM   #10
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Yep...my neighbor has Lloyds and yes it is more expensive. But if something were to happen, you can rely on them to pay you.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:59 AM   #11
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Not always. A friend of mine (whose book I wrote) lived in London and had his business insured by Lloyds. When extremists bombed it, killing his son, the insurers claimed the disaster was his fault because he must have made the bad guys mad. They refused payment. (Two gov'ts got involved in protecting him, including the British, assuming him a victim--Lloyds knew better.) All insurance companies enjoy loopholes. Even Lloyds.
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaVenture View Post
Not always. A friend of mine (whose book I wrote) lived in London and had his business insured by Lloyds. When extremists bombed it, killing his son, the insurers claimed the disaster was his fault because he must have made the bad guys mad. They refused payment. (Two gov'ts got involved in protecting him, including the British, assuming him a victim--Lloyds knew better.) All insurance companies enjoy loopholes. Even Lloyds.
Sounds like an interesting story...can you share more?
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:48 AM   #13
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Surely Lloyds insurance arm is an insurance brokerage collective, not an insurance company. From an insurance viewpoint, it is in my understanding that Lloyds is merely a place where insurance companies can be represented under a specific industry banner in much the same way as doctors can be represented under the umbrella of the Medical Association and then specialise within a specific agency.

Being a 'name' within Lloyds, I think, suggests nothing more than an industry minimum ethical expectation.

But then again, I may be wrong.

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Old 07-26-2007, 03:45 AM   #14
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Insuring at less than "full value" can happen in 2 ways--one I'd worry about, the other, not. We also have Boat US coverage on our 41 year old Rawson 30. But, that boat's worth next-to-nothing so it doesn't matter. On the larger boat, we're not eligible for a regular policy til she's ready for launch, right now she's only eligible for the construction policies. Having said all that....

If you're under-insured because the insurer is only willing to give you "actual cash value" on damage, then that's a worry. Especially if you're paying for a regular policy but will only get cash value because of the age of the components, etc. Actual cash value policies are supposed to be cheaper than regular policies. If you're worried about being under-insured because the insurer won't insure you for the full market value of the boat (i.e. they'll write a 100K policy but you can see on Yacht World that boats similar to yours are selling for 170K on average) that isn't such a huge problem--losses tend not to be the whole boat, it tends to be repair/replace part of the boat's value and if at real replacement instead of some kind of depreciated cash value, then its probably ok. Further, you're not paying for something you're never going to get!

I know I'm a little worried about the value the surveyor is going to put on our boat when we're done because its going to be more money than I'm willing to insure the boat for. I don't like paying for insurance that I think I'm not going to need. We're not counting our "sweat equity" so our cost of rebuilding the boat is quite a bit less than it would be if we have to hire someone to do everything.

Of course, I kinda wonder about the "actual cash value" policies and boats as that are anything over 40 years old or so--I have more than fifty large Merriman blocks in good working condition that I've seen fetch more at swap meets than brand new reproduction Merriman-style wood blocks. Same goes for much of the bronze on the boat. On something "new" actual cash value can be dismal because I'll assume the insurer is looking at depreciation down to something you'd buy at the marine swap meet. On something "old" like the blocks and winches we're rebuilding, actual cash value can be high (same marine swap meet)--if we're talking apples to apples and things that work well and aren't worn out, that is.

Other related thought...

I haven't investigated the matter fully, but it is possible to get a new build-date (and new CG Doc #) on a boat that has been extensively rebuilt. We're not planning on doing it because our cruising boat has been continuously CG documented since it was launched in 1931, but some folks do it for insurance reasons. Clearly, a 2007 build date sounds a lot better to the average insurer! Our surveyor states there's no hard-and-fast rule on it, but he figures about 25% of the structure must be repaired/replaced (on a wood boat like ours that would be planking, deck, frames, floors, keelbolts, etc.) which we've exceeded. I also don't really know what it takes to get the new CG Doc #. One would assume that all the system and hull safety standards that may be required are the same as those we strive to meet anyway! You may investigate this if you feel you've rebuilt your boat sufficiently to qualify for a new build date.

About Lloyds--they must be ok, I know several folks who have cruised with Lloyds insurance. However, the people I know best who have Lloyds always have to take on extra crew to be insured while crossing oceans. They never have a problem finding volunteers since they have a great boat and everyone wants to sail it! They are a couple who can handle their 50' schooner just fine--he's owned and sailed the boat for a few decades. But, their insurance will only cover if they've got 4 people on board for passage making. I do believe that makes sense, but you might not like finding yourself constrained to having to have crew for bluewater coverage. I know another owner of a 48' boat with similar requirement. He did the Transpac a couple years ago--his racing crew flew home and he then had to get additional crew for the trip back to the CONUS.

How big is your boat? Will this likely be an issue for you?

Good luck in finding an insurer that you like. You may check out the brokerage http://www.overseainsurance.com they represent many different carriers.

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