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Old 08-09-2007, 10:14 PM   #1
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All the 50+ft slips will see a fee increase of 34% next month. I can't leave this place soon enough!
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:47 AM   #2
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So they tax you "extra" when you're visiting other countries (your Ecuador thread) & they tax you "extra" when you're at the dock.

Better to just "cast off" & drift to nowhere then
Yes, the bigger the boat, the bigger you get screwed.

Seriously, the boat we're rebuilding for cruising is big enough that we don't even consider docking a viable long term option. We'll be anchored or moored. She's 54' on deck (which isn't so bad) but with bowsprit and boomkin comes to 67' LOA

Luckily, very little modification to fixed rigging will be required to make ours have a shipping (hinged at the aft end) bowsprit. The boomkin, alas, is another story, so we'll be 58' LOA with the 'sprit hinged up. Still big enough to see the $$$ going out faster than we want them to go.

Trim, which way are you headed--south or north? We're considering going up to Alaska (offshore from San Diego...haven't decided if we'll go to HI, Japan, or something else along the way) and coming down the west coast for about a year before heading off to see other parts of the world. We've always wanted to sail southern Alaska and the west coast, the inside passage, etc. Our launch and travels should be in 2008.
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Old 08-10-2007, 04:24 AM   #3
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Yes, the bigger the boat, the bigger you get screwed.......

She's 54' on deck (which isn't so bad) but with bowsprit and boomkin comes to 67' LOA
Why do they persecute boat-owners so much?

According to merchant shipping rules, ships have two length measurements; LOA and LBP.

LBP (Length between perpendiculars) is the distace between the vertical line (the perpendicular) where the ship's stem meets the waterline at her summer load dtaft and the verticla or perpendicular passing through the rudder stock. In other words, the overhang at the bow and stern are not included nor is the part of the bulbous bow extending beyond the forward perpendicular.

LOA (Length over all) is the overall length of the ship NOT including spars. In otherwords the length from the most for'd part of the ship's hull to that most aft. Spars including bowsprits, as mentioned, are not ncluded just as they are not included in the measurement of the ship's bredth. Neither are cranes or davits, which can swing outboard and thereby physically increase the ship's bredth.

It seems to me that when it suits their purposes yachts are classed either as merchant ships (e.g. Ecuador's new rule concerning the use of agents to receive port clearance) and as pleasure boats (e.g. this debate). The purpose, of course, being to extract as much cash as possible from the poor cruiser.

So, the bigger the boat the more you are screwed is only valid up to a point - that point being the classification of a vessel as a merchant ship.

Aye,

Stephen
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Old 08-10-2007, 04:42 AM   #4
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Yep, 34% increase for boats over 50ft, 24% for 45-49ft, and I think it was 18% for everyone else.

My actual LOA is 49'9" and since I'm in a 50ft slip, I get hit with the 34% increase.
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Old 08-10-2007, 04:46 AM   #5
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That's a hell of an increase. I would be looking for an alternative. You probably are already working on that.

Aye

Stephen
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Old 08-10-2007, 04:48 AM   #6
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Why do they persecute boat-owners so much?

According to merchant shipping rules, ships have two length measurements; LOA and LBP.

Stephen
LBP is 47' (on the USCG Doc for this boat) but nobody cares about that at the marinas.

I guess that makes us "under 50 ft" for some tax somewhere...

The relevant yacht measurement of LOA including spars is what gets us into $$$ at the docks. Of course, most marinas do count your dingy, davits, etc when they charge you for a slip space...
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Old 08-10-2007, 04:54 AM   #7
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. Of course, most marinas do count your dingy, davits, etc when they charge you for a slip space...
Between a rock and a hard place!

There is not a lot we can do about it but it is a rip off.

Aye

Stephen
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Old 08-10-2007, 08:41 PM   #8
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That's a hell of an increase. I would be looking for an alternative. You probably are already working on that.
Well here is the thing...I'll try to make this short.

Long Beach was once a really bad place...nobody in their right mind would want to keep a boat there. The city started their revitalization effort about 1982 with the building of the new shoreline marina, rainbow harbor, introduction of Queen Mary, Long Beach Convention Center, Aquarium of the Pacific and shopping centers. Now, Long Beach is booming…it is kinda like Disney Land with around 50 good restaurants and lots to do all walking distance from the boat. We even built our own yacht club http://www.shorelineyachtclub.com/

Two years ago the city replaced all the wooden docks with really nice concrete docks and modern facilities. When I moved my boat from Marina Del Rey in 1995 where I was paying $650/month, I was able to choose my slip from hundreds of vacant slips. I was originally paying $350/month. Last month my slip payment was $552. Next month it will be $740. At $740/month…it is still a great deal for Southern California where the same slip could cost you $1400/month in Newport Beach.

So, it seems that I’m one of the few not so upset about the increase. Everyone else is pissed because the revenue from the marina is being used by the city in what I hear is an illegal manner. Apparently there will be law suits…and then everyone will pay even more. I think they could have instituted the increase over a longer period and avoided all the potential law suits.

Long Beach is however a really beautiful marina for anyone making their way along the California coast.

http://www.visitlongbeach.com/
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:35 PM   #9
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Of course, most marinas do count your dingy, davits, etc when they charge you for a slip space...
A simple solution are davits that rotate together or are able to be totally removed.

ATKINS_20__20HOYLE_20WEB_20SITE_20016__579_x_393_.jpg

A pair like that can rotate together and can even be removed very easily. Any questions, send me a pm.
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Old 03-21-2008, 09:20 PM   #10
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how does beam (cat) factor into this equation? you have to pay for being as wide as a 60ft craft?
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:13 PM   #11
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Disclaimer: we do not own, have never owned nor been involved financially in any marine business.

A. counting bowsprit into LOA. In modern marinas where every square inch is rationed, the boat has to fit into the berth because if part of the boat were hanging out of the slip turning/maneuvering room for other boats would be hampered. If the bowsprit extends over the dock, anybody further down the dock has to crawl under it to get to their boat. Some boats with their little bow pulpit with one or two anchors mounted pose another hazard if it overhangs the dock. These are considerations when buying a boat, if you expect to spend any time in a marina.

B. Beam. The majority of marinas size their slips so that there is a port side dock for one boat, starboard side for the other. The usual beam for a 40' boat, be it sail or power, is about 13 feet (give or take a few inches). Say 28' width of the slip. So, one catamaran or two monohulls. Marinas are in business to make money, and rent out space. They should be getting the same amount for a slip whether there are two monohulls or one multihull in the slip. The honest, or (better word) honorable, marina operator will often only charge the monohull rate for the cat if he's not full. But if he is full, or it's high season, I understand perfectly his charging double for the multihull.

When a crowded marina has to put us into a slip that would otherwise accomodate two monohulls, we often compromise by tying up on a face dock, giving up a bit of comfort and privacy for half the cost.

We've found that the tropical and semi-tropical marinas, which have customers year round are more reasonable than the seasonal locations. In New England a marina slip costs from $2.00 to up to $4.00 per foot. In Florida it's more like $1.60 per foot, and off season can be as low as $1.00 per foot per day, with weekly and monthly rates that can make it very reasonable to be in a slip.

From a business standpoint, marinas are not the same as renting out other real estate. The liability is higher, the turnover is greater, it is more labor-intensive and maintenance is significantly higher. Marinas are more like hotels or "you-store-it" compartments than apartments or parking lots.

And, as with other consumer products, supply and demand rule.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:29 AM   #12
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Our liveaboard berth in St Thomas costs $18 per ft / month + water + electricity. And we're in one of the island's cheapest marinas!

Makes us just want to throw away our lines and go cruising again... which we will certainly do in the near future anyway.

Since installing solar panels and turning off the airconditioner, our electricity cost has dropped from over $400 per month to less than $50 per month.

Never-the-less - it's still the most expensive marina we've ever been in.

But it's way better than being a dirt dweller!

To Life!

Kirk
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