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Old 03-03-2006, 07:28 AM   #1
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Default Storm jib and the inner forestay

There was a previous lengthy and very insightfull discussion regarding the inner forestay, storm gib, and solent stay.

I still have some questions as I find myself in dilema on what to do.

Solent stay sound attractive but my other major concern asside from heavy weather handling is to strenghten the rig(in hevy weather). How much stronger is the rig with inner forestay and runners versus the rig with solent stay?

I have a C&C 38 MkII with navtec nitronic50 #10 rod rig(original, no galling on stainless screws at the turnbuckles). Its a double spreader with single lower shrowd (all rod #10). Basically a racing rig, which is what the previous owner did. I, on the other hand want to go cruising...

Aside from inspecting the navtangs this spring, I was thinking about putting an inner stay but the essential aspect of it will be to strenghten the rig. Previous owner left me with a wire luff storm gib but due to some disputes over items left on board, I preffer not to rely on him to find out how to fly it. So, should I go with the solent stay or the runners?

Petar
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Old 03-03-2006, 07:59 PM   #2
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Petar, as you probably know I'm pleased with our Solent Stay set-up. However, I chose this option because it was a simplier rig mod, less expensive, and it suited our existing sail plan, which is low profile, split rig and conventionally stayed. For your C&C, the conventional inner stay, roughly parallel with the forestay, coupled with running backs would, I think, provide more mast support. However, "more" doesn't necessarily mean "enough". I'm always curious what it's like to live with "in-line, single attachment point" shrouds when the sail plan is reefed down, the rig is being shock-loaded, and there's no fore/aft shroud support to keep the mast in column below the inner stay.

For offshore sailing and WRT your concern about rig integrity, here are the issues I'd place well above the choice of an inner stay:

1. Inspection of chain plates

2. Integrity of 25-30 yr old rod rigging

3. Integrity of mast tangs and their fastening.

Good luck on the prep, which of course can become all-consuming. If you plan to cruise while insured, you might also consider talking with your insurance broker or underwriter about what if any rig requirements you accept with coverage. E.g. our policy recently installed a "15 year" life span mandate on shrouds & stays.

Jack
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:05 PM   #3
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Just when Aye thought Ay'd heard it all... What's a Solent Stay???
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:44 AM   #4
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Jack thanks, that sounds like the list that I am already in part tackling.

"I'm always curious what it's like to live with "in-line, single attachment point" shrouds when the sail plan is reefed down, the rig is being shock-loaded, and there's no fore/aft shroud support to keep the mast in column below the inner stay."

I'll tell you, it vibrates like crazy. I had a smaller ericson(more of a cruiser than a racer) with double lower shrowds with nowhere near vibration.

I still have to experiment and find means to lower this vibration. its what eventially leads to wear on the rod heads, tang exits points and spreader bends. In my case they all look pretty good. But I will do the ultimate magnaflux test in May, next time the rig is down.

Turnbuckles and chainplates show no visible signs of wear, again the magnflux test will verify this.

But perhaps I can utilize my babystay and add Bill Siefert's version of the runners. Here, it looks as though the shock cord can provide aft support, and I can utilize babystay for the fore support.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0071374248...43?%5Fencoding=

UTF8&keywords=tip%2037&p=S01F&twc=9&checkSum=ixyxB iesGOdzo6kMuu%2FT%2BrxIxuPdKxbcCRZSQRa1p1k%3D
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Old 03-04-2006, 04:45 AM   #5
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A Solent stay, my dear Kirk, is a short holiday on the south coast of england.
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:44 AM   #6
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Thanx for the info, Auzzee!

Can a Yank Sailor get a Henway in Solent?

Kirk
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:38 PM   #7
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Sorry to take the conversation away from sailors finding "Old Hens" but at the moment I'm more interested in storm sails. I have a baby stay forward of the mast which is too close to the mast to fly a storm sail. I am wondering about removing the baby stay and replacing it with a fore stay to give me the capacity to be able to reduce sail down to the storm sail in a heavy blow.

The issues that hold me back include the difficulty of tacking with a fixed forestay just aft of the furling headsail, the reduction of strength of holding the mast if I then unclip the forestay and take it back to the foot of the mast and the capacity of using just a fraction of the furler to approximate a storm sail.

What are your thoughts?

Rod
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:00 PM   #8
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Hi Rod, I am just in the process of installing a temporary inner forestay on my Beneteau. The stay is fixed about 1 foot down from the mast head, The bottom is fixed to a chainplate just aft of the chain locker via an ABI lever. This will allow it to be fitted quickly during a blow once we've furled the genoa, but during normal sailing it will be detached from the foredeck and stored on the shrouds. This should avoid running backstays (having the forestay so high) and also prevent it getting in the way when not needed. Tha added advantage is that in the event the main forestay or furling system fails I can hank on the storm jib and sail with that.

Cheers

Mark
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:20 PM   #9
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Kirk, if you read Mark's description you'll get the essence of a solent stay. And FWIW one sees Mark's approach all the time on boats not originally intended to have an inner stay; Beneteaus to H-Rs, this is a common approach in N Europe.

In practice, what I find is that offshore one tends to leave the solent stay rigged for two reasons: setting things up during half of any given day - when it's dark - is a bit of a hassle; and second, since the stay's removable, it means the solent or storm jib is a hank-on affair. Thus, it's easier to have the stay rigged, jib hanked (and perhaps bagged) and sheets attached (perhaps even run) before one needs them, rather than setting everything up after conditions have already begun deteriorating. The wrinkle with this reality is that the foretriangle does get obstructed, in practice, when offshore and so one partially rolls up the genoa before tacking/gybing. Not a big deal...

Petar, do you by chance remember a fellow from the Pac NW with exactly your boat who has taken off cruising to the South Pacific but, until about 2003, had a nice website with all kinds of mods, rig included, that he performed on his C&C38? I don't know if that site is still functional - or should you have his name or boat name, if you could Google it - but I think you'd find his commentary quite useful. He had previously cruised the SoPac and so was prepping his boat based on relevant experience. Shot in the dark, perhaps...

I don't think you will get the chainplates inspected without pulling them. Chainplates rarely look problematic because it's the parts which are hidden which suffer from lack of oxygen and crevice corrosion. It can be a trying task, depending on how the builder put them in, but it's of course essential.

Jack
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:35 AM   #10
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Jack, his name is Ken Helwell, and the site is no longer around. Chainplates are easy to get to, so I'll take them off when the rig is down...

That link on amazon is no longer valid sorry about that.

Petar
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:40 PM   #11
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Petar, pardon the massive thread drift...but do you know where Ken is these days? Last I corresponded with him, he'd met a sweet young lady and they were beginning the run down the coast with SoPac in their sights.

Jack
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