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Old 03-07-2008, 03:31 AM   #1
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Went to the Seattle Boat Show a month back. My wfe and i were able to crawl through a bunch of sailboats. Even as novices it was easy to see and feel the quality boats. There was a Hallberg-Rassey (o my), Cheoy Lee, (ditto) and number of other very quality boats. Older boats. You could feel the difference in the sound of the boat moored to the dock.

The workmanship was readily apparent. The price tag was readily apparent.

I have always been a conservative guy. I will not pay the difference for a $30 bottle of wine when my delicate pallet can not tell the difference with the $10 stuff.

So, where is the compromise. Will an Irwin, Gulfstar, Tayana, or .............................. fill the bill.

Give me your thoughts on the second tier boat for a self proclaimed second tier guy.

DW the second
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Old 03-07-2008, 05:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckwheat View Post
So, where is the compromise. Will an Irwin, Gulfstar, Tayana, or .............................. fill the bill.

Give me your thoughts on the second tier boat for a self proclaimed second tier guy.

DW the second
Hello DW II,

Of course the Irwin, Gulfstar, Tayana will fill the bill, as much as a Hallberg-Rassey or a Cheoy Lee may not.

All have good models - good years - and designs ; However, all of them have poor models, bad years a some with bad design faults.

Again for a answer as to what is a second tier boat - we need to know what are your criteria

for size, centre vs aft cockpit, coastal cruising vs offshore, ketch vs sloop vs schooner, new vs used, keel, rudder type, engine size, generator, electronics, ground tackle etc etc ....

AND most important how much money do you want to outlay on just buying the boat.

Give us a $ range - are you intending to live aboard ? In a year how many days do you plan to be at sea ?

There is no doubt that many of the boats built 30/40 years ago that have been well maintained with their systems upgraded every few years are better value for money than some of today's new mass produced versions.

Richard
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:30 PM   #3
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Additional Criteria:

40-50 foot

Live aboard 12-18 months prior to departure.

Goal is to circumnavigate in a unhurried manner.

I like a pilot house, but the Amel center cockpit looks like it would work.

Center cockpit usually equates to a nice aft cabin.

Diesel adequate to move the boat, but definitely want to use the wind.

Full Keel.

Sailed only sloops, so I am biased towards what I know.

I don't plan to sit at anchor running a generator so I can run a airconditioner. Solar or wind chargers are appealing. The few wind ones I have been around are pretty obnoxious from a sound perspective.

I would like refrigeration.

I dont' want a lot of external wood on deck to maintain.

I want radar,gps chartplotter,ssb,weather fax.

I WANT A DECENT BED to sleep in when I am anchored.

I want plenty of ground gear. 2 CQRs up front. I have seen decent set ups for anchor off the stern as well.

I want a windlass to bring them back up.

I want a furling jib and lazy jacks on the main.

I want monitor wind vane, it seems like everyone automated ones break.

I would like to be in to the entire dream for about 100-150k heading out to sea.

DW
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Old 03-08-2008, 03:48 PM   #4
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With that budget/size/equipment list desire, you're wanting a used boat.

40' and under, you're in the price range. Closer to 50' its going to be hard for you to find what you're looking for with all that gear in good working condition.

Its one thing to buy a boat that has all this stuff on board. Its another thing for it to be good quality and reliably working. Literally EVERY used boat we looked at (in the 45' to 55' range) was chock full of gear that was in "ok" condition, but that we felt like might not make it far with our intended live-aboard/cruiser use.

I'd recommend that you try to find something without all the electronics/vane/solar/etc that you want. Find a basic boat that has the size, engine, and rig you can live with in the $30K-$70K range. It will need cosmetic work and won't have fancy systems. If you can do that work as well as outfit the electronics and systems, you'll have exactly what you want, you'll know how everything works and be quite comfortable cruising that boat. You'll also have the tools to fix things!

Further, as I recall, you haven't done a lot of sailing before (correct me if I'm wrong) so you'll likely be initially happier with the smaller boat that is cutter or sloop rigged rather than a split rig. Get some time sailing on a couple of differently rigged boats so you'll be more familiar with them. This will help you (I think) in your decision process. Do know that the splt rigs (schooner/ketch) have the benefit of smaller sail sizes which I find to be easier to deal with (being a not-so-strong woman vs a big burly man). I'm happy to deal with the added lines and complexity in order to avoid having to deal with huge sails when standing watch on my own. Even with lazy jacks and furling systems, things can go wrong and you have to be prepared to deal with that huge sail in such an emergency.

Best of luck to you!
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Old 03-08-2008, 06:01 PM   #5
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redbopeep pretty much covered it all. Research, research, research takes time, but eventually you will realize that it will be a compromise. Best wishes in finding what will keep you smiling through years of exploring.............
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Old 03-09-2008, 09:10 PM   #6
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Just remember that if you buy a second tier boat (used boat) you will end up putting the same amount of money that you spent purchasing the boat into it again whule fixing it up to your standards. In other words, if you have the money up front for a new version that costs at or less than twice the used version then buying the new version is a wash. Exceptions can be made for boats less than 5 years old. But older than that and the re-fit / re-hab costs will likely cost as much as you spent buying the older boat. And if you buy new you at least get a few years of warranty coverage to help with the repairs.

Any cruising boat is akin to a "space-ship." We carry everything we need to exist onboard, food, water, fuel, and then travel to obscure little places nobody else (land-based people) can get to. Then we live in a paradise "outside" of the real world for as long as we desire and the supplies hold out. Then we rejoin the world to re-stock / replenish and then head out again. Such a life is beyond beautiful and fulfilling if you are an independent soul, who detests living in a society where the bureaucrats coat you with "nerf-foam" and make sure you are safe despite yourself.

For a couple cruising - the 40-47 ft boats are the most popular and provide the room and storage that makes your journey very comfortable. For one person, 30 to 40 ft is adequate depending upon your chosen region of the world to cruise.

But first, decide where you want to cruise - coastal, islands, or across oceans and then look at the appropriate type boat. Either a coastal / island sailior, quick and nimble to duck into this or that little cove or bay / harbor; or a blue water / green water boat that is very stable and only wants to go one way -> forward towards the far horizon.

Good luck Jim on Osiris
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:03 PM   #7
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You will come out way ahead in dollars with a used boat. Yes, you will put a lot of money into most boats to get all the bells and whistles that you want to go with but nowhere near what it cost to buy and outfit a new boat. What is the price of a new 42HR in comparison to a used one or a Kelly Peterson 44-46?? I've gone both ways and the cost differential between new and used hasn't come close.

For a boat the size that you are contemplating, you might want to think about another self steering gear than the Monitor. They are good gear but there are better and stronger vanes out there.

Aloha

Peter O.
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Old 03-11-2008, 12:51 AM   #8
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Before ya throw out the split rig idea, try a ketch or yawl. I'd never sailed a multi masted boat prior to my current one and now I wouldn't go back, for cruising.
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Old 03-11-2008, 03:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Before ya throw out the split rig idea, try a ketch or yawl. I'd never sailed a multi masted boat prior to my current one and now I wouldn't go back, for cruising.
Or, a schooner Though, it is much easier to find a used ketch than either a schooner or a yawl.
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