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Old 12-07-2006, 04:24 PM   #1
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Default Suggestions On Buying A Vessel

Greetings,

I am new to this site, thank you all for the info you have provided thus far.

I hope to purchase a sail boat within the next few months and plan to sail it around the globe. There will be four of us and the budget for the boat will be about 200K USD, 250 Max. I am looking for saftey and some room (42-50ft), not necessarily speed in my blue water vessel. Any suggestions on makes or models?

clarkso13
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:55 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard!

I'm sure some helpful information will be forthcoming shortly.

Good luck with your plans.
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Old 12-07-2006, 09:14 PM   #3
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Hi,

Let me also wish you welcome aboard.

I hope you have a successful circumnavigation but what worries me is your question. Not the question in itself but the fact that you are asking it. Generally speaking, if you have been sailing for a while and have gained the knowledge and experience necessary for such a voyage as that which you are planning, you will already have a fairly clear idea of the type of vessel you want for this voyage. You may not know the specific maufacturer but you should have some idea as to whether you want a cutter or a sloop rig (or any other such as a junk rig maybe), whether the boat should have a long keel or not, should it be a cat or a monohull, etc.? Because you mention none of these issues, I wonder if you have sufficient experience?

What I would respectfully suggest is this:

1. If you have the knowledge and experience, tell us your thoughts that we may be able to assist with some specific manufacturer' models. If you are weighing the advantages of, for example, long keel versus fin keel, let us know and we can provide out thoughts on the subject.

2. If you haven not yet the knowledge and experience, get some! Do some training courses and get some sailing time in. This should not just be daytime in coastal waters but well off-shore and at night too. Once you have done a number of passages you will then have got to 1 above and can open that discussion.

Whichever may be the case, I wish you well with your plans and many pleasant milse of voyaging.

Stephen

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Old 12-07-2006, 11:13 PM   #4
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Sean, I too hope you won't be offended by Stephen's comment, especially because he is quite correct in making it. Here are two suggestions I'd like to make that I think will be useful to you:

1. Experience really does have no equal in preparing someone for the kind of ambitious, life-altering experience you seek...but often, inexperienced would-be cruisers don't know where to get it. Consider signing up for a program that is specially designed to introduce real offshore passagemaking and cruising skills, and is conducted by experienced trainers. E.g. visit www.mahina.com and look at the kind of program John & Amanda offer. To those who would say 'But that's a lot of money...', my response is that it might save you $200K. It will also help you spend $200K much more wisely. Either way, it will be an investment in your end goal that is immediate and directly relevant. (While at mahina.com, don't forget to read http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html which is John's attempt to answer your specific Q).

2. Get a good, solid reference and work your way through it -thoughtfuly, diligently. There are LOTS of books out there, but a few of them are extraordinarily useful for someone with your goals. The one I would put at the top of the list right now is Beth Leonard's Voyager's Handbook, the 2nd edition. It's the best single reference I know of on how to do what you want, including how to pick a boat that matches both your goals and your pocketbook.

If you follow up on these two suggestions, you will have some very clear opinions - of your own - on the answer to your question. Good luck to you.

Jack
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:24 AM   #5
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Thank you for your responses and candor. I wanted to keep the question fairly open-ended to get answers like the ones I received. I will read the information that was suggested and keep in touch. My experience is sufficient for this type of voyage, however all the research I can do won't hurt.
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Old 12-09-2006, 12:42 PM   #6
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Hello

Sounds good to me. Rather it's a life long dream borne out of expierence

or a new idea. This type of undertaking takes time and a good deal of

common sense. It took me nearly five years to plan my circumnav. I had

not sailed a vessel previously. I learned nearly everything I needed to know by reading. I did not take any classes, courses or lessons. I purchased a 32ft. pocket cruser, sailed coastwise for 16 months and departed for three years. It was for sure a life altering event. I've been home now for nearly four years, back to sailing coastwise. I miss

the deep water. Best of luck

Fair winds

D
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:24 AM   #7
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Get as big as you can manage in the worst condition you can think of. In normal situations, size equals comfort and water/fuel carrying capacity. In circumnavigation, you probably won't spend too much time in a marina, so size = marina costs do not matter. In the budget, allow plenty for repairing things that you and the surveyor did not spot, and plenty for converting a coast hopper to a circumnavigator, unless you buy the latter - ground tackle, watermaker or bigger tanks, maybe better rigging....

Steelfan
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Old 12-17-2006, 06:43 PM   #8
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Hi,

Here is the procedure I used to select and buy my current boat, it worked very well both in terms of getting what I wanted and budget.

I prepared a spreadsheet with some 400 qualifying points divided in sections such as rigging type, hull constructions, seaworthiness, engine, galley lay out, heads,sail wardrobe etc. Each entry had a score from 0 to 4, 0 being unacceptable, 4 being ideal and good working condition. The total score was 4 X 400 = 1600. I set my standard at 1200, anything less, forget about it, anything above qualified for an economic evaluation and a survey done by a professional. It was then a matter of estimating the cost of repair and add it to the asking price. If over budget, try to negotiate with the seller or forget about. If under budget (still try to negotiate), go for it.

Preparing the spreadsheet, remember it was a qualifier, not a survey for seaworthiness although there was a bit of that as well, should take anywhere between 1 day and 1 week depending on your experience, your age, plans for the future and the sort of sailing you are planning on.

I ended up with a Vagabond 47, still under budget 2 years later and it is exactly the boat I needed, minus the volvo engine

Best of luck with your hunt.
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Old 12-17-2006, 07:33 PM   #9
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I so completely respect those who are able to look at the topic of boat buying in a totally objective manner. Writing tables, formulations, lists and data filled spreadsheets leave me humbled and feeling somewhat overawed.

I followed my heart in buying my boat. The only criteria were it had to have beautiful lines and, in my opinion, be capable of sailing in any part of the world.

I was lucky to have selected what is for me, the perfect vessel. While I support the analytical approach and wish sometimes I had such patience, one should not abandon the dictates of the heart in selecting anything of value.
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:15 PM   #10
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Auzze,

You are right, my post should have started with : if you like the boat, then go for the survey.

Cheers,
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Old 12-18-2006, 05:44 AM   #11
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Don't discount speed. On a 1200 mile passage doing 200 miles a day will see you reach harbor in 6 days, while doing 120 miles a day will take you 10 days. Weather windows for 6 days are predictable. 10 days and you're on your own. You may even have to steer around weather systems that pop up, adding even more time to your journey. On short passages it may mean arriving during daylight or arriving at night. In the South Pacific that means spending the night offshore as you never want to enter a lagoon or island in the dark. A 1 knot difference in speed makes a huge difference. Everyone wants to go a little faster, even me on a catamaran. Speed is not the most critical parameter but don't discount it. It is important. JMO

Steelfan made a good point about repairing things and buying equipment for cruising. This will cost far more then most people realize. He also made a good point about size. If you are light weight travellers a catamaran might be the thing for you. Other factors here but I don't want this to get into a cat vs monohull discussion. Size matters; comfort, safety, even determining how fast a monohull can go.
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:23 PM   #12
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Hello to all

Interesting subject, it seems to drift a litte. Does speed mater? Open Ocean sailing seems to have a way of making things equal or at least ironic.

I sat and planned the passage from Maritius to Richards Bay, SA.

With some of the crews and all the skippers from six boats. Some had weather faxs, some were hams all had SSB. We discussed the usual, Radio sceds, fax frequences, ham nets time, all these folks were well seasoned circumnavagators. We talked about the ever present H pressure system over Madagascar and the S. Equatorial current just to the south and to avoid the island by at least a hundred NM.

All of the other vessels were faster than mine. On this passage of about 1100 hundred miles or so(if memory serves) they were set to arrive about 50 or so nm ahead of me. They were fairly well grouped and close to Richards Bay, when the glass dropped dramatically, and the wind veered to the SW, piped up to sixth Knots and the port of Richards Bays closed to traffic. They were trapped inside the 200 meter line, the one place NO ONE wanted to be. It blew to force 10 maybe 11. I was hove to 35. NM

east, with sea room. The faster vessels had it much worse. Two 50ft cats came to grief on the beach. A 38ft wood mono hull sailing from Durban(a mere 80 NM to the south)was rollod over, broke up and sank.

This storm, a cut off low was unpredicted, it blew for three days.

I've heard it said and belive that there is no such thing as a slow boat only slow sails.

Size does matter, as does safty and comfort, I,am not so sure about speed.

Cheers

D
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:42 AM   #13
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Hi Welcome Clark,

Hope you like the site - it works for me! Good luck in finding your dream yacht and setting off.

Hey Dumpster - you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by Dumpster

Hello to all

Interesting subject, it seems to drift a litte. Does speed mater? Open Ocean sailing seems to have a way of making things equal or at least ironic.

I sat and planned the passage from Maritius to Richards Bay, SA.

With some of the crews and all the skippers from six boats. Some had weather faxs, some were hams all had SSB. We discussed the usual, Radio sceds, fax frequences, ham nets time, all these folks were well seasoned circumnavagators. We talked about the ever present H pressure system over Madagascar and the S. Equatorial current just to the south and to avoid the island by at least a hundred NM.

All of the other vessels were faster than mine. On this passage of about 1100 hundred miles or so(if memory serves) they were set to arrive about 50 or so nm ahead of me. They were fairly well grouped and close to Richards Bay, when the glass dropped dramatically, and the wind veered to the SW, piped up to sixth Knots and the port of Richards Bays closed to traffic. They were trapped inside the 200 meter line, the one place NO ONE wanted to be. It blew to force 10 maybe 11. I was hove to 35. NM

east, with sea room. The faster vessels had it much worse. Two 50ft cats came to grief on the beach. A 38ft wood mono hull sailing from Durban(a mere 80 NM to the south)was rollod over, broke up and sank.

This storm, a cut off low was unpredicted, it blew for three days.

I've heard it said and belive that there is no such thing as a slow boat only slow sails.

Size does matter, as does safty and comfort, I,am not so sure about speed.

Cheers

D
Understand and respect the views - but if those other yachts were just that liitle bit faster still and had got in before the harbour was closed and left you to sit it out - do you think you might have changed your view or written something different?

I actually suspect not.

We all have our own view on whats important and what's not and its good to have such differences.

I do believe its best to have a ability to choose when and where you want to sail and being on a faster boat widens those choices - provided one does not them compromise on build and seakeeping qualities.

As you say , that is of course not just a good fast boat, but with good fast sails, and finally a tolerable fast skipper.....

Merry Xmas

JOHN
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by Francis

Hi,

Here is the procedure I used to select and buy my current boat, it worked very well both in terms of getting what I wanted and budget.

I prepared a spreadsheet with some 400 qualifying points divided in sections such as rigging type, hull constructions, seaworthiness, engine, galley lay out, heads,sail wardrobe etc. Each entry had a score from 0 to 4, 0 being unacceptable, 4 being ideal and good working condition. The total score was 4 X 400 = 1600. I set my standard at 1200, anything less, forget about it, anything above qualified for an economic evaluation and a survey done by a professional. It was then a matter of estimating the cost of repair and add it to the asking price. If over budget, try to negotiate with the seller or forget about. If under budget (still try to negotiate), go for it.

Preparing the spreadsheet, remember it was a qualifier, not a survey for seaworthiness although there was a bit of that as well, should take anywhere between 1 day and 1 week depending on your experience, your age, plans for the future and the sort of sailing you are planning on.

I ended up with a Vagabond 47, still under budget 2 years later and it is exactly the boat I needed, minus the volvo engine

Best of luck with your hunt.
Ahoy there Francis,

We're new to the group. Please see post "Five Years Left". I'm actually very interested in your spreadsheet since we also are looking for an objective procedure for purchasing a vessel. Would you mind sharing the spreadsheet that you authored for my use? I believe it would be a perfect start. Would you object if we had to alter it to fit our needs... "Offshore Sailing Catamaran"? I would be most grateful for any and all assistance you can provide. Happy New Year.

Fair winds,

Juan & Belkis
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