Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #1
Ensign
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Home Port: juillac
Posts: 2
Default third crusade fleet

I am a historian working on a history of the Third Crusade. This is a real long shot, but a master mariner friend suggested that vessels under sail today have, despite the obvious technical improvements, many of the problems in terms of current and wind that faced the English fleet of the Third Crusade. So, any thoughts that members of Cruiser Log have will be appreciated and, if used, attributed in the book (working title Lionheart to be published by The History Press end 2013/early 2014).
In order to avoid paying the extortionate rates demanded by the ship owners of Pisa and Genoa, who possessed the two great Christian fleets in the Mediterranean, Richard Lionheart raised a fleet of his own by purchasing vessels in England ports and his continental possessions. Most of the English vessels acquired in harbours from Hull to Portsmouth were square-rigged, single-sailed cogs that cost between £50 and £66 each, paid partly in cash and partly by remission of taxes due by their owners. In all, forty ships were purchased in this way Ė thirty-three of them from the Cinque Ports alone.
Depending on the vesselís size, crew numbers varied from twenty-five to sixty aboard an esnecca, the fleetís flagship that could be rowed as a galley or proceed under sail with a favourable wind. The crewmen were not crusaders, but paid a year in advance at the rate of two pence per day, with the skippers receiving only twice that amount.
A considerable quantity of freight had to be stowed away and lashed down in the open holds. Some horses were doubtless carried aboard, for use during landfalls made on the voyage. Being unable to vomit, horses make poor sailors and had to be closely confined in stalls to avoid injury due to the shipís motion Ė the flat-bottomed, wide-beamed cogs rolled abominably in even a light sea.
Richard left England before Christmas 1189 while his English fleet was being made ready to sail southward down the Atlantic coast and through the straits of Gibraltar into the Mediterranean. Roger of Howdenís account of the voyage is unclear, but the fleet must have put in at the ports of Normandy, Anjou, Poitou and Aquitaine (Richardís domains) and possibly also in Brittany, of which he was overlord as further ships joined there. They certainly made landfall at Oporto and Lisbon to obtain fresh supplies and, more importantly, clean water for men and horses. The horses also needed to be exercised on land after being confined.
The land on both sides of the straits of Gibraltar was occupied by Muslim forces, but with insufficient naval power to impede so large a Christian fleet passing through. However, the southern half of Spain was all Moorish territory, so it was not until reaching Christian territory at the mouth of the Ebro in northeast Spain that they could land and re-provision. The plan was then to rendezvous with the king and the bulk of his army, travelling by land, at Marseille on the coast of southern France, where they did not arrive until 22 August 1190.
My question is this: can anyone suggest a rough schedule of departure and landfalls for these ships that fits the above? I am assuming that departure would not have been before the end of winter.
__________________

__________________
douglas boyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #2
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

You need rather specific historical information and maritime knowledge from a very specific sort of maritime expert. That information isn't the expertise of this forum.

The historical facts of weather in a particular year and area would come from research of people like...you...historians. The maritime relationship to the weather conditions would come from people who know the ships and sailing techniques of the era you are investigating. To start, I also suggest you get in touch with maritime museums in the areas that your ships would have been sailing from and to.

Ships sail year-round depending upon needs of their owners/mission/crew. You can really assume nothing about seasonal sailing schedules of ships. You need real facts.

Fair winds,
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #3
Captain, Sailboat Reboot
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Home Port: None
Vessel Name: Reboot
Posts: 110
Send a message via AIM to svReboot
Default

Read your private message. If you don't know how post back here
__________________
Roger
Current position http://www.winlink.org/dotnet/maps/Positio...?callsign=W2ZDB
Ham: W2ZDB Reboot: WDB8435
Web Site: http://www.sailboatreboot.com
Blog:http://blog.sailboatreboot.com
svReboot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 12:55 AM   #4
Rear Admiral
 
Coyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Home Port: San Jose, CA
Vessel Name: Coyote
Posts: 215
Default

I gots no answers for you, but I love the question. I'd like to think they went when the wind served and left the rest on God's hands.
__________________
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: San Diego
Coyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 07:22 AM   #5
Ensign
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Home Port: juillac
Posts: 2
Default

I don't seem able to connect with you. Do you have an e-mail address I could write to? I am assuming so, since otherwise how will this get to you?

Fair winds,

Doug Boyd
__________________
douglas boyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 03:04 PM   #6
Captain, Sailboat Reboot
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Home Port: None
Vessel Name: Reboot
Posts: 110
Send a message via AIM to svReboot
Default

See the private message. I left my phone number and email
__________________
Roger
Current position http://www.winlink.org/dotnet/maps/Positio...?callsign=W2ZDB
Ham: W2ZDB Reboot: WDB8435
Web Site: http://www.sailboatreboot.com
Blog:http://blog.sailboatreboot.com
svReboot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 03:07 PM   #7
Captain, Sailboat Reboot
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Home Port: None
Vessel Name: Reboot
Posts: 110
Send a message via AIM to svReboot
Default

Up in the right hand corner of this page - where your login information is, is a link to private messages. If you click on it it will take you to your private inbox. That is where my notes to you are. Let me know if you are still having trouble finding it.
__________________

__________________
Roger
Current position http://www.winlink.org/dotnet/maps/Positio...?callsign=W2ZDB
Ham: W2ZDB Reboot: WDB8435
Web Site: http://www.sailboatreboot.com
Blog:http://blog.sailboatreboot.com
svReboot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
usa


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Usa Tin Antifoul Crusade steelfan Regional Discussions 8 03-12-2011 09:25 PM
A R C - Round The World Fleet Lighthouse General Cruising Forum 0 11-13-2008 05:15 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0