Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-08-2007, 03:21 PM   #1
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default Varnish....or not

Hi Folks,

I am a great believer in oiling wood rather than varnishing it as alows the wood to breathe but I have always varnished wood which is exposed to the weather. However I am in a little of a dilemma. The time has come for me to do some work on my wash boards.

Question, what do you folks consider best:

1. varnish, and if so one or two component varnish?

2. A mixture of terpentine and boiled linceed oil?

3. A patent concoction such as Owatrol?

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on this

Stephen

Yacht NAUSIKAA
__________________

__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2007, 06:31 PM   #2
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,726
Default

This is as vexing, if not as important a subject as anchors. I do not want to varnish because of the difficulty in recoating. In my part of the world varnish cracks very quickly.

I have just coated the cockpit seats and combing, and the hatch surrounds (all teak) with an oil which I bought from the local hardware store. It is recommended for use on exterior, hardwood garden furniture.

It looks great, has the slight orange tinge of UV inhibitor, and I don't know how long it will last in equatorial climes...But it is easily recoatable.

I'll let you know how it holds up in the future....which is of little use to you for the moment, Stephen...Sorry.
__________________

__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2007, 07:35 PM   #3
Rear Admiral
 
Swagman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 349
Default

I think the common path is best.

If in tropics - oil it.

If in cold climates - varnish it.

If you prefer spending time on other things and not too worried about appearance - then use one of the proprietry protection coats.

Cheers

JOHN
__________________
Boring blog at http://www.yotblog.com/swagman
Swagman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2007, 08:39 PM   #4
Lieutenant
 
Francis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: No such thing
Vessel Name: Charisma
Posts: 85
Default

We just went through an extensive varnish and oiling exercise. It is definitely too early to come up with any conclusion, however here is what we noticed.

Around november 2005 we varnished the cockpit, stern wood work and the aft toe rail using International 2 pack perfection for teak. 4 coats of International Perfection for Teak did not last a year. If I had read the litterature I would have found out that perfection for teak (great to absorb teak oil) is not so good for UV and needs to be recoated with plain perfection that absorb UV a lot better and gives a better gloss. That we need on the cockpit and indeed it worked out a lot better.

A year latter, we had to get on the hard to change out the depth transducer and took the opportunity to look at the woodwork.As we did not sand the wood properly,the overall aspect was not so great but the combination of perfection for teak and plain perfection held very nicely. So we decided to sand it all over again to get a nice clean substrate. Well, the sanding turn to be a major task. I used an Kress random orbital sander with grit 40 to remove the international varnish. A disc lastet about 20 minutes before getting dull, no loss of grit, just dull and very little varnish was removed. That led me to conclude that it was a very hard varnish, there was about 6 coats altogether. When we finally got the teak wood bare, nice and even, eventually getting down to 120 grit, we applied 8 coats of perfection for teak and another 6 coats of plain perfection, we hand sanded with 320 grit on average every 3 coats. The result is great but it has been only 2 months so way too early to conclude anything.

The teak roof coach, unprotected since laid some 7 years ago, we sanded using the same machine, got it nice, clean and even and used 6 coats of teak oil made by Ocean Pro. There was no breakdown on the cans so I do not know the content and have to assume linseed oil, some turpentine and whatever else. The stuff is made in Singapore. Again too early to say but the oil is not coming out in the sun, the Sikaflex caulking does not seem to be affected and it looks good although scratches can be seen easily, but the overall look is good.

The whole thing took us 2 months, 6 days a week, 2 people, so labor intensive is probably the right word, I hope to be able to get away with a light sanding on the varnish once a year with probably another 6 coats of plain perfection.

Let's post in anotht year from now !!!!
__________________
Francis
S/Y Charisma
Francis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2007, 09:28 PM   #5
Admiral
 
atavist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vessel Name: Persevate
Posts: 548
Send a message via Yahoo to atavist
Default

Francis - If you don't mind me asking, how much did your whole project cost? A detailed cost analysis would be greatly appreciated. I'm still disputing between wood and fiber. I love the idea and look of wood and time is not an issue... but money is.
__________________
atavist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2007, 12:44 AM   #6
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 143
Default

My sharpie has always been varnished. I did the West System/eight coats of varnish trick and then missed a summer. Oops. She's only in the water in summer in NC (and then undercover in our boathouse), but one little missed season and I had to completely redo her brightwork. I did not use varnish when I redid her last summer, but instead took a page from the performance of the sealant on our big boat.

Our ketch lived on the hard in San Carlos, Mexico, for five years. For the eighteen months prior to our purchase of her, no one had even been down to pat her on the back, and yet her brightwork looked surprisingly good. What had the owner used? Cetol.

To make up for some failures on their part, the San Carlos yard sanded down the exterior wood so that I was left with having to do something to seal it. In La Paz, I put on two coats of Cetol Light, which I knew would need replenishing (they call for three at least) by the time the boat got back to CA. It did, but took very little effort--just a light sand and another two coats. I was suppposed to put another coat on the next year, but you know how these things work...I got busy moving us onboard. So, it's been eighteen months since I've done anything to much of it, and though this isn't the tropics here in CA, I'm still impressed by how beautiful the Cetol looks. I know, it's not a purist's idea of perfection: there is a slight hue, but it may be that hue which helps block the UV. What I particularly like is that when it goes off, there's none of that flaking you get with varnish. Just a slight wearing away, which requires only a fine grit sandpaper and another application. I must say, it's quite fun when heads turn. So far, no one's turned up his nose at the look on our boat.

It's also quite fortunate that I like to maintain brightwork, as ours has an abundance.

Normandie
__________________
SeaVenture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2007, 02:10 AM   #7
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

Many of the professionals, including the guy that does my varnish, are using Interlux 2-part "Perfection" Linear Polyurethane.

The results are amazing with fast build and tough long lasting glass-like finish. Three coats lasts the entire season.
__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2007, 03:49 PM   #8
Lieutenant
 
Francis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: No such thing
Vessel Name: Charisma
Posts: 85
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by atavist

Francis - If you don't mind me asking, how much did your whole project cost? A detailed cost analysis would be greatly appreciated. I'm still disputing between wood and fiber. I love the idea and look of wood and time is not an issue... but money is.
Good point, we spent US$710 on sand paper, International Varnish and the appropriate (expensive) thinner (we use a lot more in the tropics), Sikaflex for various repair and some brushes. The varnish was quite expensive at US$50 per kit (2 packs.
__________________
Francis
S/Y Charisma
Francis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2007, 11:47 PM   #9
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 29
Default

I use Cetol and my boat has minimal wood on the outside. The Cetol works pretty well and seems to last 2 seasons. While I think you guys with all the "brightwork" are slightly nuts, if you can keep up with it then it does look very nice. RT
__________________
1983 Ericson 381
rwthomas1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2007, 06:12 AM   #10
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,726
Default

I agree with you Rob, we are slightly nuts! The problem is that after buying a boat with timber gunwhale rails, hatches, combings, dorade boxes etc., one falls in love. I don't like maintaining brightwork, but I prefer it to covering the whole lot with a couple of coats of exterior gloss white.

And, what else is a bloke to do whilst enjoying a cold beer on a hot day?

David
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2007, 07:28 AM   #11
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'
Originally posted by Auzzee

And, what else is a bloke to do whilst enjoying a cold beer on a hot day?

David
How about sitting in a deck chair and enjoying the "scenery" as it walks by....

RT
__________________
1983 Ericson 381
rwthomas1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2007, 07:59 AM   #12
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

After years of trying to perfect "The Art of Varnish", I finally decided to hire a professional. Within one season, I had the glass finish that I spent many years and thousands of dollars trying to achieve. Somethings are better left to the pros. Nonetheless, I think the 2-part linear polyurethane is a key element in getting the glossy-depth of a bristol varnish job.
__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2007, 12:50 PM   #13
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Thanks for all the replies but am I any the wiser? Probably not. What it boils down to, I think, is that there are as many opinions about this issue as there are skippers out there. And then you get folks like me who remain undecided.

Many years ago I built a crib in Swedish pine for my first child. As it is not poisonous, I chose boiled linceed oil and turpentine to protect the wood and the result was very good. (It has now survived three children and hopefully it will suvive grandchildren too). Since then, I have used the same mixture for Nausikaa's interior wood fittings (where I don't want to be binded by brightwork) but the exterior is a different matter.

I sailed on a few ships where we used Owatrol; a patented Norwegian solution which is easier to aply than varnish and looks very good but I have heard som negative feedback on Owatrol too. I must add though that my experience of Owatrol has only been positive.

And then there is the super gloss which blinds you in the sun but otherwise appears to be as deep and full of promise as the eyes of Brazilian girl.

I think the only thing we can all agree on is that brightwork looks a lot better than a dab of paint. So, what is a normal guy going to do then? I suppose I will just fall for those deep, dark eyes. After all, we are probably steered more by our emotions than by science.

Thanks for all the replies

Stephen

Yacht NAUSIKAA
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 08:43 AM   #14
Ensign
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Send a message via AIM to Jeremy Send a message via MSN to Jeremy
Default

Hi. BOILED linseed is always good and turps helps it to penetrate (but a product called Penetrol is kinder on the hands, wood and environment). The problem is the slow drying. This is solved by adding Terrabine, a paint-drying additive.

So: The recipe. Equal amounts of boiled linseed and turpentine, and 1 - 2% Terrabine for the initial 2 coats. Apply the mixture liberally with an old brush. For any later coat(s) less turps is needed. This will outlast any Polyurethanes, I reckon it looks far better, and there is no unsightly peeling in the future.
__________________

__________________
Jeremy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A NEW VARNISH - COELAN : Is It Magic ? krissteyn General Cruising Forum 3 09-28-2015 10:16 AM
Vanishing Varnish redbopeep Living Aboard 1 12-22-2010 05:03 AM
Varnish Or ? MMNETSEA Repairs & Maintenance 8 09-16-2009 05:22 PM
Best Varnish Remover? SilentOption Repairs & Maintenance 10 01-04-2009 04:38 AM
Chat - It Gets Boring Waiting For The Varnish To Dry mico The Poop Deck 1 10-06-2008 03:45 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0