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Old 05-24-2008, 01:53 AM   #1
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Ok gang were torn between two boats, You guys said to never get a Hunter. So here are two boat that meet our needs and were having a hard time deciding.

Boat 1 http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1765084 &ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listin g_id=1585&url=

Boat 2 http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1866175 &ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listin g_id=1585&url=

What are the pros and cons of both boats. Let me say this Slips in Hawaii are very had to come by and the morgan has a transfereable slip in a desirable marina, a big plus for the admiral. but she also like the center birth on the Celestial. Me I find the boats have similar equipment not much info about the Celestial plenty on the Morgan info goes both ways on the Morgan for and against.

I really look forward to the responses and I cannot decide my self. the Slip situation is having no influence on me.

Thanks Tom
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:26 AM   #2
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What drew you to these two vessels?

Both are in my "no-no years" in terms of age/vintage. I'd purchase a much older boat or a much newer one. Lots of systems and lots to go wrong on both, btw.

What are you looking for and why?

Assume you're in HI and are an experienced sailor?

Tell us more
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:28 AM   #3
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Hello Tom ,

Tough question, I know the Celestial well having crewed on 3 deliveries from Amoy Xiamen

China down to Hong Kong in the late 80s.

THE XIAMEN EXAMPLE September 1985.

By ANTHONY LEWIS

"Yves Binet is a boat-builder who could have stepped out of a French film: 28 years old, with a luxuriant mustache and a large straw hat. He used to build boats in Taiwan. Now he makes luxury yachts in the People's Republic of China, 48-foot fiberglass sloops and ketches that sell in the United States for $135,000. Mr. Binet is one of four foreigners at the Celestial Yacht Co. Ltd., a Chinese-American joint venture. It provides a small example of how work incentives and other new economic ideas ..."


Xiamen.jpg

A New Zealander friend of mine Barry Sexton was the Equipment installer - One of 4 westerners. He kept a boat next to mine in Marina Cove - Hong Kong. I recollect the names of of the ones that I saw in production : "Celebration Ten" for Bill Crump and "Hexagon" now owned by Jonno Holderness. Having also been to the ship yard - I can confirm that the hulls were built like those of the proverbial brick outhouse. As tough as they come - last year this month I saw "Hexagon" on the rocks in Nai Harn Bay - Phuket Thailand, she had gone walk-about from her mooring and had spent 14 hrs pounding in the surf on the rocks. Got her off - and once into deep water the rudder fell off - Thai Fishermen towed her to a shipyard where she was hauled - other than barnacle scratches NO DAMAGE to hull - recovered rudder reinstalled and back in business.

Here is picture of real nice Celestial :

In_Marina.jpg

Here is another picture of the superb joinery to be found in the Celestials :-

_XIAMEN_AQUATIC_CELESTIAL_48.jpg

----

In trying to compare your two choices - I note that the Morgan is also a Centre Cockpit (which I like for the aft cabin) It is a year younger than the Celestial, priced at US $3,300/ft , draft is only 4'10", is better equipped than the Celestial. 41ft of boat is much cheaper to keep in a marina than a 48ft, less expensive to maintain and could be easier to sail with only 2 people on board.

Therefore, in spite of the fact that I have never sailed on a Morgan, the one that you have listed gets my vote. Whatever, get a full, out of the water, "condition and valuation" survey.
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Old 05-24-2008, 06:06 AM   #4
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That's an excellent vouch for the Celestial. Many boats of that era are not so stoutly constructed. Though, still, systems remain the upright concern--a good survey will tell you about them, of course.

I did note the Celestial seemed a bit light in terms of engine for that size vessel. Also, tiny generator all things considered. I is the more pretty boat though (imho).

Can't wait to hear what you're planning with the boat(s).
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:29 AM   #5
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Aloha,

Thanks for the responses we are planning to live aboard for 3 to five years here in the islands sailing every chance we get then leaving for the south pacific for a few years finally sailing bac up to Hawaii and ending up in the Seattle area.

What did you men in the no no years, not old enought and not new. In the newer boats unless you have money for a pacific seacraft or similar the production boats are tuppaware. I owned a 66 Grand banks once old boats have their own problems, Nothing perfect but with newer standing rigging and eletronic equipment and newer or replaced systems and pumps and heads they cannot be too bad they all will need maintenance. Besides they are in my price range and seem to fit my needs. everything is a compramise.

Mahalo
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Old 05-24-2008, 06:33 PM   #6
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I don't know anything about either boat, so this is more a matter of thinking about what you want for passagemaking.

That aft cabin in the Morgan looks awful - no sitting straight up in the bed, is there? Where are the pilot berths? Bad weather there's no way anybody can sleep in the v-berth (well, Peter could, but he could sleep on a picket fence!). As little as I would like a 48' boat, the Celestial looks nicer than the Morgan. In five years when you want to cruise you'll probably want to replace all the electronics so I wouldn't put a lot of value on those myself.

Not fair to say more modern boats are Tupperware. There are some good, well-built ones, and anyway, who wants an "oyster-crusher", a boat build like a tank?

Next question. The Morgan write-up talks about a huge dry storage area in the galley. What does that mean? If many, or even some, lockers are open to the bilge, i.e., wet storage, keep looking. Neither boat is steel, there's no need for wet lockers inside the boat. You will hate, hate, hate wet lockers.

Not much to offer, I'm afraid.
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Old 05-24-2008, 11:06 PM   #7
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Some Examples of Morgan 41 - Aft Cabins from the Out-Island and Classic Models :-

Morgan_Aft_Cabin5.jpg

Morgan_Aft_Cabin6.jpg

Morgan_Aft_Cabin3.pg.jpg

All 41s have good pilot berths.
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Old 05-25-2008, 01:10 AM   #8
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JeanneP makes some good points. My issue with boats of a "certain age" is that they're (typically) not old enough to still be built like a tank (though it seems the Celestial may be heavily built) but instead may have problems with core materials under the fiberglass (both deck and hull) as well as osmotic blistering (case by case on that but tended to be boats built after the mid 70's in USA and after early 80's internationally, all having to do with additives to the fiberglass...here I am NOT qualified to pinpoint/discuss blistering, I'm only passing on what I've heard).

It seems to me that many older boats are priced a bit high considering the age of their rig, engine, tanks, house systems and electronics. When you "back out" the value of some of these things that you will very likely have to replace in the next 5 or so years, you're really looking at how sound is the basic hull and spars. If you realistically look at the features/systems, you may find that you're better off with a newer boat that costs a little more OR a boat that's more of a "deal" because its missing something (that you'd likely be replacing anyway...); you could fix up such a boat during the 5 years while you live aboard. Prices on boats are really dropping right now, so you might find an excellent deal if you dig a bit. Further, its an EASY mid-summer sail from So Cal TO HI, therefore don't exclude CA boats if you have the time and experience to sail it home to HI.

Regarding heavy build boats... There's a benefit to a hull that is quite sturdy and it is confidence inspiring. However, momentum being what it is, handling a heavy boat isn't the same as a lighter/smaller boat. What is your own (sailing) experience? Owning a power boat doesn't really equate here. For example, my sister-in-law, who has her 100Ton Masters License, is quite at home with big and small power boats but is totally inept when faced with port maneuvering even a small (6T) sailboat. No bow thrusters and an undersized engine for the vessel displacement/weight can mean that you'll have to exhibit more finesse than the average sailor getting into and out of tricky spots. Thats an issue that only YOU can decide. Hopefully you get out on some similarly sized vessels and check them out.

Test sail the boats you're considering and have fun finding just the right thing for you and your family

Fair Winds
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Old 05-25-2008, 03:17 AM   #9
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The original question raised by Wotom in his topic was "Which Boat Is The Better Choice In Your Humble Opinion" The Morgan or the Celestial ?
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:49 PM   #10
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Addressing only the original question as shortly as possible, I would go for the Celestial. Assuming you are interested in extended cruising, you should keep in mind that her length equates into greater speed and if you consider the equipment, provisions and extra fuel and water you will require, her size will come to good stead.

The Celestials are ruggedly built and have a good layout if traveling with family. For a sailboat her size, a 60 HP diesel is more than sufficient, considering fuel consumption and range. Without a bow-thruster any ship that size is going to have to be maneuvered with care in narrow marinas. Otherwise, perhaps I’m more inclined than others to sail as much as possible and use the engine only to get in and out of port and keep the batteries charged.

Before the deal with Spirit (a Warwick Cardinal 46, center cockpit) was finalized, I started checking out alternatives extensively. After much deliberation, my second choice would have been a Celestial 48. I found one located in France and had already contacted the broker when I learned that my offer for Spirit had been accepted.

Have, by all means, a valuation and conditional survey carried out. And, as has been noted above, in the final analysis it has to be your decision. I believe that opting for the larger boat will fulfill your requirements, over the long run, with a greater level of overall comfort and safety.
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:07 PM   #11
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Oops, I went down the garden path to interesting aspects of your question and the boats we contemplate. However, back on topic--

If either/or, then I also would go for the Celestial. Based on traditional style and sturdiness.

Waterline length equates to speed, with the overhangs (very traditional and quite lovely) the Celestial doesn't have quite the waterline that one would think. It also has more wetted surface with the deeper keel, so that may slow it down just a tad--along with its hefty weight factor. Oops, going off topic again, sorry...

I, for one, look forward to hearing more about your search for the right boat
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:18 PM   #12
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The bigger the better!

I know you can discuss this from heaven to hell and back, but I believe a bigger boat gives you more comfort, more speed, more space, more room for spares, more safety (and, off course, more troubles.... ). Asuming that both boats are in similar condition, that is.

Just my thoughts...

Jan
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