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Old 03-28-2008, 03:31 AM   #1
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I am retired from business and need a passionate hobby! I am hoping that sailing a yacht around Australia and beyond will exceed my expectations. I am considering a new sail boat 45-50ft with as much control back to cockpit for short handed sailing. Now comes the $64k question - I am pretty sure I would like a pilothouse vs. a deck saloon as the dodgem protection seems minimal! However, reading some blogs I am leaning towards a charthouse vs. pilothouse to reduce windage etc. So WHICH charthouse sailing yacht should I be looking at?
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:39 AM   #2
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Hi,

Check out the Bob Perry designs for a Charthouse design ( ie low windage Pilothouses)

Bob Perry's post

Good hunting

Richard
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:07 AM   #3
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PeterOsborn's quest for a Chart House boat (yacht) rather than a pilot house is indicative of how difficult it becomes when trying to visualise what one sailor means when talking to another on the same subject :-

Pilot House = A compartment on a vessel which gives protection from the elements to the Navigator at the same time offering a clear view to the Pilot (who is the Navigator).

Wheel House = A compartment on a vessel which gives protection from the elements to the Wheel

Raised deck saloon = A compartment on a vessel which gives protection from the elements to the Saloon (Saloon : a compartment with batwing doors where Wyatt Earp commanded that guns had to be checked with the bartender)

So returning to Chart House - this term is seldom used to describe a low windage pilot house, perhaps its origin was concocted by a yacht designer who wanted clients to believe that his design was unique.

A sailboat with a wheel/pilot/chart house which has been called a motorsailor - a real sea-worthy yacht - which has a compartment with a Portuguese Bridge which gives the navigator an unrestricted view is the 37ft Fisher :-

Fisher_37.jpg

Richard
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #4
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Around Oz in a pilothouse?

Sounds like a passage in a suana to me - and IMHO probably loosing sailaing capability as well.

I'c check out a good bimini to keep the sun off - and wear some wet weather gear when needed.

Cheers

John
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:17 PM   #5
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To give even the most basic of advice / recommendations, it would be useful to have some idea of your budget, because if you are talking about $100,000 i'm going to make a different recommendation than if your budget is $400,00 or $1,000,000 or $4,000,000
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagman View Post
Around Oz in a pilothouse?

Sounds like a passage in a suana to me - and IMHO probably loosing sailaing capability as well.

I'c check out a good bimini to keep the sun off - and wear some wet weather gear when needed.

Cheers

John
John,

Here is today's forecast for just one part of Australia's southern coastline (taking into consideration that it is not winter yet and that the southern lats stretch for some 2,000 nm)

" 40:2:1:24:44S151E750:11:00

IDV21000

SECURITE

HIGH SEAS WEATHER WARNING FOR METAREA 10

ISSUED BY THE AUSTRALIAN BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY, MELBOURNE

AT 1754UTC 30 MARCH 2008

GALE WARNING FOR SOUTHEASTERN AREA

Please be aware

Wind gusts can be 40 percent stronger than the averages given here, and maximum

waves may be up to twice the height.

Situation

At 301600UTC: Cold front 38S142E/45S152E/50S157E moving east 30/35 knots.

Area Affected

Within 38S141E/38S155E/43S160E/50S160E/50S141E/38S141E

Forecast

East of front northwesterly winds 25/35 knots, locally 40 knots.

West of front west/southwesterly winds 25/35 knots, locally 40 knots.

Rough/very rough seas. Moderate/heavy swell.

Gradual moderation from the west.

WEATHER MELBOURNE"
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:56 PM   #7
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Hi MMNETSEA,

Thanks for the forecast and I'd be the first to agree weather can come up, especially across the Bight and down to Tasmania, and certainly up to four times a day off Port Phillip Bay.

But I still feel buying a pilothouse yacht for Oz is a strange move - and simply suggest the poster considers his rationale.

A circumnavigation will see a majority of time in sunshine, and exposure to that is going to be more of an issue than wet weather.

What will be required is an ability to cool off - and with restricted ventilation in pilothouse set ups - I'm not sure I'd sail one there without aircon!

And of course if blowy, then a lower yacht with better sailing capabilities is always going to be an advantage.

All IMHO of course.

JOHN
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:11 PM   #8
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To add my penny's worth; I mostly agree with John.

When the weather is inclement a pilot house is nice; keeping warm or sheltering from a shower but when things get really nasty there is nothing like a clean sweep of deck to allow the really green stuff to roll accross it without causing damage. Colin Archer built his famous rescue ships with, at most, a tiny (relatively anyway) coachroof and no cockpit as such but just a well with enough room for the helmsman to sit and shelter from the very worst of the stormy blast. They were built for and performed very successfully in the rough sea off the Norwegian coast, frequently in Arctic blizzards.

If it gets cold one can always put on more clothing and today's high tech gear is absolutely wonderful for keeping the wearer both warm and dry - well, almost. Also, a powerful cabin heater makes below decks a cosy environment when the weather is cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey.

Conversly, when it gets hot one is limited to how much clothing one can take off. Even in the privacy of one's own yacht / sailingboat one cannot go further than bare skin so I would say that keeping cool is the greater priority.

But there again, I have never been to Oz so I am just making an educated guess. I have however spent some time in Indonesia and immagine there to be little difference, weatherwise at least, from one side of the Torres Straits to the other.

As always, opinions are divided but the bottom line is that ti is your money and your choice.

Good luck with the trip whichever boat you go for.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:32 AM   #9
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Here is the local coastal forecast for this evening...

Quote:
SOUTHWEST COAST, South East Cape to Low Rocky Pt:

A Hurricane Force Wind Warning has been issued.

Wednesday until midnight: Northeast to northwesterly winds 20 to 30 knots, tending northerly at 35 to 45 knots during the day, locally 50 knots about the west coast. Northwesterlies at 45 to 60 knots developing this evening, locally 70 knots later. Seas rising to 5 to 8 metres. West to southwest swell near 3 metres.

Thursday: West to northwesterly winds 45 to 60 knots backing southwesterly at 35 to 45 knots in the morning, easing to 20 to 30 knots in the afternoon, then tending northwesterly in the evening. Seas 6 to 8 metres abating to 3 to 4 metres. Southwest swell near 4 metres.

Friday: Westerly winds 20 to 30 knots, 35 knots offshore at first, easing to 15 to 25 knots in the afternoon but reaching 30 knots in the west in the evening. Seas 2 to 4 metres. West to southwest swell 4 to 4.5 metres.
Welcome to Tasmania, have a nice day.

They cancelled tonight's beercan race
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Old 04-02-2008, 06:38 AM   #10
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Thanks, Weyalan for the additional weather - WINDY part of the world ! Your post reminded me to go back to Peter's opening for his topic :-

The salient points he raised

#1 . Sailing a yacht around Australia.

#2. A new sailboat 45-50 ft

#3. I would like a pilothouse

In answering HIS wishes :- #1. the Southern Coast of Australia is some 2,000 nm, with West to East Weather systems from the Southern Ocean rolling past with monotonous regularity :-

Southern Oceans Seas

On the premise that this part of Peter's Australian passage will account for 30% of the total coastline of 6750nm and that because of the southern latitudes and the water temperature, not to mention the howling gales - HIS choice of a Pilot House, I find admirable. (NB Crossing the Atlantic at 2858 nautical miles - not much further)

With above in mind, what choice is available ? in the range 45-50 ft ? :- The Farrs 45ft through to 56 ft;The Barco Farr; The Vancouver, The Tayana, The 40 ft Caribbean Sailing Yacht (CSY);

The Nauticats ; The Pacific 45 etc .. etc..

A well designed Pilot House with a solid hard top for solar panels, main sheet traveler , forward windows opening backwards and latching to the headlining - Side opening windows to allow through breezes.

All windows with 3M's anti UV , heat and glare film protection :- Anti Heat Film

Another benefit is, that no longer is the person not on the helm confined to the saloon below deck. Many of the Pilot House designs in the range 40ft plus will also have an aft cockpit with a separate steering station - where a bimini will be necessary to give protection from the sun.

In some designs there is a disadvantage and that is where the pilot house may interfere with the helm's vision when coming into a marina and berthing.

Richard
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:31 PM   #11
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For the record, the weather station at Tranmere, which is about 3 miles south of my house, and still within the city limits, not out to sea at all, registered a 98 knot gust last night. It would have been worse down around SE Cape and Matsuyker Island.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:10 AM   #12
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I'd suggest the poster to go look at the yachts parked up in most Ozzie clubs and see what local experience has actually led to.

I've sailed the WA coast for 20 years and frankly, can't recall meeting anyone sailing a pilot house yacht and not complaining about lack of air and less than useful deck / cockpit space. Maybe it's different in Tazzie, I don't know.

But I do know get north or Perth on the west coast or Sydney east coast (and that then defines 70% of the circumnavigation passage and probably where you'd spend a greater % of the time during such a trip), and cold / rough weather is going to be the least of your issues.

I'm not anti pilothouse boats.

East coast US or west coast Scotland or Baltic or north Sea are all super places where a pilot house treally suits typical conditions.

But sorry chaps, IMHO not on an Ozzie circumnavigation.

Buying the wrong yacht is an expensive mistake, so suggest one reverts to speaking to the locals and keeping your eyes (and mind) open.

I'm sure you'll end up making the right choice.

Good luck.

JOHN
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:11 AM   #13
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It is very difficult to find a boat with a good size cockpit AND a chart house. It's almost impossible if you're in a small boat and you go for a full-fledge pilot house as that is typically even larger. If your boat is over 50' on deck, its quite possible though. We sought a boat with a little deck salon and/or chart house but didn't want the windage of a pilot house. We also don't "believe in" those huge add-on canvas enclosures that so MANY people put on over their cockpit because they don't have a way to get out of the sun/wind/rain and really can't stand the open cockpit. Talk about windage! Some of those things are huge!

The chart house should be low enough and narrow enough that you can easily see over/around it while standing watch at the helm.

Onwards, we lucked out in finding a custom boat that fit our various needs and desires including a chart house suitable for second steering station. BTW, nothing says that if you've got a chart house, you cannot go OUTSIDE and use the cockpit if you're hot! Its just another option. Our chart house is low and has decent ventilation via three 4" portholes low on the front of it, a Dorade vent also on the front and the companionway. It used to have even better ventilation when it had an opening window in the front and one opening on each side which are now fixed shut (safer this way, for sure). The boat was purpose built for high latitude sailing, which is one of the reasons we purchased it, and having a little chart house to duck into out of the weather is helpful in the cold and wind. The boat's original owner spent most time in Maine, Long Island Sound, and trips to the north to Labrador, etc.

The cockpit of our (54' on deck) boat is large enough (6 ft fore-aft seats in addition to helm seating and approx 8 ft width. What the boat "gives up" to have the chart house is interior space below. The engine lives under the chart house sole with access by removing seating on either side of the chart house as well. If the chart house didn't exist, the engine room would likely be full height and/or the interior would be reconfigured to offer an additional cabin. The chart house has a chart table in addition to steering station, therefore one doesn't have to go "below" to navigate and this is quite nice, btw.

Good luck in finding just the right boat with chart house/pilot house or whatever suits you!
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