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Old 01-08-2010, 10:24 PM   #1
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I'm looking for people here to help me put up some good quality content on blue water cruising boats.

The first thing I noticed when I started looking for my own cruising boat to buy, was that there was no definitive source of reviews and info on blue water boats. They're scattered in dips and drabs all over the net piece-wise. So I've decided to build what's intended to be an open-resource semi-wiki style site that's going to collate good quality info/reviews on blue water cruising yachts. Hopefully it will be a useful tool for prospective buyers. Please contact me if you want to help by writing a review on your favorite boat.

Till then, I'll continue to chip away one review at a time here by myself :-)...

bluewaterboats.org

Thanks

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Old 01-08-2010, 11:37 PM   #2
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Here's a link to a great video review of a Passport 40 .....

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-disc...kretschmer.html
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:54 AM   #3
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Here's a link to a great video review of a Passport 40 .....

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-disc...kretschmer.html
... thanks, but thats exactly what I mean, reviews are scattered in drips and drabs all over the web. Free free if you know enough about Passport 40s to contribute a review. Due to copyright and suchlike I can't just cut and paste other peoples resources. Distilling and curating the content is really what needs to be done.
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:46 PM   #4
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Maybe, just maybe, there could be some advantage to all concerned/interested in building your reference site within the context of the cruising Wiki here.

That way, you could add your own contributiuons, get others to add theirs directly and generally promote the facilty and keep a weather eye on things rather than take on the toatal responsibility - as I'm sure others have done previously (and in your judgment failed) - for the upkeep and maintainance of what is likely to be pretty extensive database.

For me, you could start with a definition of a what constitutes a blue water boat cos, from my base little real knowledge, it looks like somewthing of a moveable feast. If you can highlight some key factors against which to rate each boat, of course, you might get to a basis for meaningful comparisons.

Good luck whtever way you decide to do it; I, for one, will be a very interested reader!
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:35 PM   #5
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I recommend contacting Good Old Boat and asking their permission to put the boat reviews which you feel qualify as blue-water capable online.

I have had good luck with them and their contributing writers in allowing me to use (sometimes at a small fee) content from their magazine on my own website.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:08 PM   #6
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Well I just emailed Good Old Boat, let's see what they say.

Peter, thanks for the suggestions on the cruising wiki here. In my experience all projects like these need a champion to push the project along, so I don't mind doing that. Some of the features I want to insert into the site mean a general purpose wiki won't work, thats why I say semi-wiki. I'm about to open up a section below the "curated review" to let owners write casual user opinions a bit like how Amazon does it, and I'm thinking about have a tabbed section for owners of that particular boat to list a their boats for sale. Ultimately the aim is to help potential buyers research and buy their boat.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:39 AM   #7
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In my experience (all over the Net) a very real danger exists when people submit negative comments - can invoke legal reaction. It becomes a pain in the butt because you must contact the "offended" party for each negative comment and at least offer the opportunity to reply and then find that you may have to remove the comments anyway. It is a fine and sometimes dangerous line to tread to host such information. Not fair, I know.

Simply quoting features and specs is not a problem but, does not give a fair reflection of the vessel to prospective buyers (which I think is your objective).

Beware the legal "sharks". Very often you're dealing with big money manufacturers who will often use bullying tactics that can cost dearly.

Good luck.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:18 PM   #8
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That's great cos "Danger's my middle name". Okay that was an inside joke, but in all seriousness it's pretty clear these are the foibles of running a media sites. I think we can steer clear of danger here since the job is curating information and summarizing it in high quality in one location, thus the guideline for the main review can be "put any negative comments as quotes other sources". User opinions I've seen on media sites as being the property of the commenter.

I do wonder how the legal system works across international borders, the US being the source of most cease and desist orders. Interestingly piratebay.org at one time stated that they would buy their own small island and declare their own country if need be to carry on their operations.
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:52 PM   #9
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BoatUS doe great reviews... not all of them are blue water boats by any measure but it is a great aid if you want to look up a specific boat... I used this a lot when I was boat hunting as they are no holds bared in their reviews.

here's a link to just one of their writer's boats reviewed list

http://www.boatus.com/jackhornor/
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:11 PM   #10
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Thanks, Jack Horner does write some great reviews, I too looked at some of his writings when I was looking.

I've just put a "owners opinion" feature up so if anyone wants to insert their opinion on a boat, feel free to. Only have 6 boats up so far, but that's not bad going for a couple of weeks between refitting work on my boat.

Any boat requests? I'll see what I can dig up.

(I'm new here, but beginning to like this forum already).
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:57 AM   #11
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Just an update. Karen, editor of Good Old Boat magazine reply with a warm and helpful email. It turns out the rights of the articles publish by the magazine are owned by the writers (not the magazine), hence we will need to approach the authors individually. Perhaps I shall get around to doing that when I see articles that are suitable.

In the meantime I've been thinking of augmenting the open wiki content with editorial grade reviews with author(s) attributed as well as copyrights retained. After all I think that is what will be required to seed the resource with high quality articles.

Any thoughts on this? Pros and cons?
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:11 AM   #12
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Just posted a few more reviews this last week.

http://bluewaterboats.org/tayana-37/

http://bluewaterboats.org/valiant-40/

http://bluewaterboats.org/alberg-30/

http://bluewaterboats.org/cavalier-32/

If anyone here owns their own good quality photos you would like to allow bluewaterboats.org use, please contact me. These are the boats in need of more photos (interior, on deck, under sail):

Cavalier 32 (NZ)

Valiant 40

Crealock 37

Crealock 34

LaFitte 44

Thanks.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:09 AM   #13
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I'm certainly no expert, but... this I do know for sure...

Our last old boat was a Worldcruiser Pilothouse 37, built by Bud Taplin himself. She took us safely across 25,000 miles' of three oceans and I can say, with confidence, that she was a fine and capable blue water cruiser.

Our new old boat is a Sparkman & Stephens designed Hylas 47 which we've stretched to nearly 53 ft and, thus far, has safely transported us more than 10,000 miles from the Caribbean to nearly the western reach of the Pacific... and I can say, with confidence, that she is a fine and capable blue water cruiser.

Furthermore - my new wife is an eager and energetic sailor & lover, who has shared nearly 30,000 nautical miles and smiles aboard these last two boats... and I can say, with confidence, there is no better wife or lover... for me.

It takes a lot more than a talented designer, experienced builder and quality materials to make a capable blue water cruiser. One captain's dream may be another captain's nightmare and the same can be said about husbands, wives... and lovers.

In my opinion, you make your own bunk and you sleep in it. You rig your own boat and sail it. I've met people on the opposite side of my world who have gotten themselves there on boats that I'd be reluctant to sail across a small lake - but I have to say, with confidence, that their choice of a blue water boat was obviously the best boat for the voyage... for them.

In my opinion, the best blue water boat in the world, for you, is the one you can afford and is within your reach & your ability to handle. There is no "perfect" blue water boat. It is up to you, the captain, to make it so.

Just go out and buy the most boat you can afford, improve upon it and report back and let us know if YOU think she's a capable blue water boat... for you.

To Life!

Kirk
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:54 AM   #14
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I think many would-be cruisers shopping around for boats want the definitive "what boat I should buy so I'll have safe, comfortable, reliable...etc cruising experience." I commend your efforts to help others but think it's probably impossible to provide would-be cruisers a resource that will really help them very much. Why? Because I think the process of deciding what to buy is almost an osmotic process...overwhelm yourself with enough reviews, yachtworld ads, books on cruising, and trips to see various boats and...it all starts sinking in. You'll eventually know what is right for you!

Since buying a boat is so very personal and attributes are valued differently by different people, IMHO, bringing together a bunch of reviews and specs on various boats still won't answer the question for the would-be cruiser. There are numerous books/authors out there with great information about cruising and the particular boat attributes that those particular authors have found to be valuable/important in their own cruising experiences.

After perusing the writing of present day cruisers who dispense such advice like the Pardeys (small and simplicity is best), the Dashews (big and fast with every wiz-bang is best), Nigel Caulder (maintain your boat and systems no matter what you've gotten yourself into in the way of a boat), and Annie Hill (live within your budget!)...one can usually begin to focus on a philosophy that matches one's own personality and lifestyle on land and that will work at sea. Throw in a couple more references on cruising boat design, read a few issues of Good Old Boat and such...talk to a few cruisers in places like Cruiser Log, look at your real budget, then one can usually begin to sift through all the boats to find ones that might work out.

It really is so very, very, very individual to the person.
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Old 01-18-2010, 06:35 AM   #15
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Believe Red and Kirk summed it up very well - The decision to buy a specific boat for a specific purpose is in the final analysis a matter of personal preference.

For example go to Yacht World, where they list just a hundred different makes of boats that all could be classified as cruisers or cruiser/racers :-

# Alajuela (4)

# Alberg (5)

# Alden (9)

# Allied (9)

# Baba (3)

# Baltic (3)

# Bavaria (14)

# Bayfield (7)

# Beneteau (200)

# Block Island (7)

# Bristol (25)

# Bruce Roberts (3)

# C & C (13)

# C&c (73)

# Cabo Rico (15)

# Cal (32)

# Caliber (11)

# Canadian Sailcraft (3)

# Cape Dory (15)

# Catalina (259)

# Cheoy Lee (32)

# Chris-craft (6)

# Columbia (13)

# Com-pac (3)

# Concordia (5)

# Corbin (7)

# Coronado (4)

# Cs (4)

# Ct (6)

# Custom (8)

# Custom Built (3)

# Dufour (12)

# Endeavour (25)

# Ericson (33)

# Farr (3)

# Formosa (7)

# Fountaine Pajot (6)

# Freedom Yachts (23)

# Fuji (4)

# Gemini (9)

# Gozzard (7)

# Gozzard 36 (3)

# Gulfstar (16)

# Hallberg-rassy (6)

# Hans Christian (23)

# Heritage (3)

# Herreshoff (3)

# Hinckley (30)

# Hinterhoeller (16)

# Horizon (4)

# Hughes (6)

# Hunter (358)

# Ingrid (5)

# Irwin (21)

# Island Packet (65)

# Island Trader (5)

# Islander (29)

# J Boats (27)

# Jeanneau (40)

# Krogen (3)

# Lagoon (11)

# Lancer (6)

# Lord Nelson (5)

# Manta (7)

# Mariner (6)

# Moody (5)

# Morgan (76)

# Morris Yachts (5)

# Nauticat (6)

# Nautor (6)

# Newport (4)

# Newporter (3)

# O'day (21)

# Pacific Seacraft (33)

# Palmer Johnson (3)

# Passport (10)

# Pearson (96)

# Peterson (3)

# Prout (3)

# Rafiki (6)

# Ranger (7)

# Rhodes (4)

# S 2 (4)

# Sabre (57)

# Sceptre (3)

# Seafarer (3)

# Seidelmann (6)

# Shannon (8)

# Southerly (4)

# Ta Shing (7)

# Tartan (64)

# Tayana (32)

# Valiant (14)

# Watkins (4)

# Wauquiez (10)

# Westerly (4)

# Westsail (4)

# Whitby (4)

# X-yachts (6)

# Yorktown (5)

All of the above have in all probability sailed across oceans in their time, some better than others, in terms of speed, comfort, safety etc.

Maybe need to define what is a "Blue Water" boat - If one looks at where the most dangerous seas occur in relation to the waters that cruising boats cruise. Are the waters close to land less dangerous than those a thousand nautical miles offshore? Where do most boats founder? How does one define "Blue Water" The ISAF , RORC, USCG, SOLAS and many other organisations classify the seas and oceans when making rules regarding the construction, design and safety components of boats.

In 27 years of talking to cruisers; 10 years of which, spoke every single day to Cruisers from the North and South Pacific Ocean, The South China Sea, The North and South Indian Ocean and the Southern Ocean - It wasn't the cruisers that were far offshore that reported serious difficulties. In the great majority it was cruisers that ran aground in anchorages, cruisers whose boats took in water, cruisers that foundered on lee shores, cruisers that took short cuts and were holed, cruisers that capsized attempting to cross sand bars, cruisers whose engines failed, cruisers who lost sails and rigging, cruisers that had collisions with other boats and ships in harbours, marinas and anchorages. etc......

It could be that the best boat to cruise on depends on the ability and experience of the master and crew.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
It could be that the best boat to cruise on depends on the ability and experience of the master and crew.
Edited for brevity.

Amen, Amen and verily I say Amen. There is nothing like experience and as I have learned (sometimes painfully) the more you know, the more you know you don't. We are now to the looking at boat stages and having to bug the heck out of friends and family to get to know better what I need to be looking for beyond what knowledge I already know. Wish us luck on pulling these last strings together (it may work it may not, but you don't know till you try)

May the Wind be kind and lee shores easy to see.

Michael
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:27 PM   #17
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The last four post are great.

Good luck with the site.

Cheers
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danger View Post
I'm looking for people here to help me put up some good quality content on blue water cruising boats.

The first thing I noticed when I started looking for my own cruising boat to buy, was that there was no definitive source of reviews and info on blue water boats. They're scattered in dips and drabs all over the net piece-wise. So I've decided to build what's intended to be an open-resource semi-wiki style site that's going to collate good quality info/reviews on blue water cruising yachts. Hopefully it will be a useful tool for prospective buyers. Please contact me if you want to help by writing a review on your favorite boat.

Till then, I'll continue to chip away one review at a time here by myself :-)...

bluewaterboats.org

Thanks
-Will
You might want to check out 'Yachting Monthly' in either the print version or on-line www.yachtingmonthly.com, which is really cruising oriented and if you have ever sailed around GB and the channel/north sea, they have intense weather. They have great second hand boat reviews as well as prices and comparison with comparable boats.

They also have good gear reviews, where something does not work, they say so quite bluntly. In addition, when they test things, they have smart comments. For example,in a review of 12 different radar reflectors they tested them, but noted the best return received was from the dingy that they put the other 11 reflectors! Genius, we bought 10 cheap reflectors, and put them in all the unused spaces like the upper parts of the chain locker, lazarette, backs of lockers, etc.

Good luck with your project!
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:28 AM   #19
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Louiesails,

Took your advice and had a look at Yacht Monthly on Line.

Interesting story :-

"Knox-Johnston's wrecked yacht: decision soon

* Fri, 15 Jan 2010

To salvage or scuttle, that is the question

Cork Clipper



A naval architect is examining a 68ft ocean racing yacht, which hit a rock during Sir Robin Knox-Johnston's Clipper Round The World Race to see if she is salvageable.

Colin Campbell - sailing on another of the 1 million yachts, which are all fully insured, - will let the organisers know this afternoon if it is worth saving the vessel.

The stricken hull of Cork, Ireland, one of ten yachts competing in the Clipper 2009-10 Round the World Yacht Race, which struck a rock in the Java Sea, some 200 nautical miles north east of Jakarta, is still stranded.

All 16 of her crew were evacuated to the island and subsequently to two sister yachts, Team Finland and California. All are safe and next of kin have been informed.

Falmouth Coastguard is working with local agencies to ensure that the situation is being constantly monitored.

The yacht was sailing in 20-knot winds when she struck a rock off the small island of Gosong Mampango at 2018 GMT, 13 January having left Geraldton, Western Australia for Singapore on 3 January.

Initial reports from skipper Richie Fearon stated that the boat is lying on her side on the rock with the toe rail under water with some hull damage.

With winds increasing, the crew were evacuated as a precaution.

Fellow competitors Team Finland and California were nearby and immediately stood by. The skipper and crew of Cork have subsequently used their liferafts to transfer to the waiting boats and all are now safely on board. Team Finland's skipper Rob McInally is relaying updates with both the race organisers and the coastguard agencies.

At this stage, it is too early to consider what impact the incident will have on the Irish entry and whether the team will be able to continue in the 10-month-long 35,000 mile race around the world. "

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting story !



Do not know apart from the skipper, if the other 15 members had the appropriate realtime experience to navigate, read charts, steer a course, read radar, keep a look out etc... Most were green amateurs who pay big bucks for the experience.

The boat ran straight onto a reef at 18 minutes past 4am out in open waters! Who set the course? Was the boat on autopilot? If it was the intention to find a lighthouse (that was listed as dis-functional) in the middle of the Java Sea, they couldn't have done better.

Click image for larger version

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Click image for larger version

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So what do we have here? A 1 Million "Blue Water" yacht equipped with every conceivable navigation aid run on to a known hazard! The weather was fine - 20 knots of wind to sail by -

Was it "human error/failing" ? The "yacht's equipment faulty" ?
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:37 AM   #20
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Glad you liked the source, and the info... they(YM) have an interesting viewpoint in their writing. The other magazine that has interest is Latitude 38, which also has an online version. www.latitude38.com if you care to have a look. Richard, the editor, has a great, twisted sense of humor, but is also a good boat driver.

Linda says 'I hate it when things go bump in the night'....

fair winds,

Robert
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