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Old 10-22-2008, 05:06 PM   #1
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Just came across this on another site - yacht-owner looking for crew for the ARC

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Entry fee will be £60 ARC organisers fee and the berth cost will be £100/day for the period on board from the start of the race to arrival in St Lucia. Reasonable onboard expenses towards victualling will also be required during this time.
Ouch!

The scary thing is that they have had one enquiry - this really is a commercial enterprise.
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:55 PM   #2
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What are the odds that the vessel is NOT registered to carry PAYING crew/passengers - is NOT insured to carry PAYING crew/passengers - the skipper is NOT registered/licenced to take charge of a vessel carrying PAYING crew/passengers.

If the above is what I think let's pray that there is no accident - it could be a whole lot more expensive for the poor unsuspecting crewmembers than what they thought.

Yes, this practice is criminal if the vessel and skipper is not duly licenced and registered for what they are doing. The charges that you quote above is extortion! They expect the crew to pay dearly for the duties that they perform aboard - crew that they could not sail without.



One day, somewhere, an unhappy crewmember is going to get off a boat and report this kind of thing - "Goodbye Yacht"!
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Old 10-22-2008, 07:16 PM   #3
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I am amazed, again, by the cheek of some of these guys.

Our of curiosity today I started browsing a few crew wanted posts elsewhere. Here's one: "I am looking for one additional crew member for the 2008 ARC. A contribution of £1,300 is required for entry/food and a share of the cost of a new Spinnaker." What person is going to contribute to somebody else's boat's equipment? And then pay for the privilege of working on the boat?

Aaaahhhh, I've ranted about this before, it's getting old. Sorry.



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Old 11-21-2008, 06:19 PM   #4
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I expect this post to attract a strong reaction from the Moderators, however it is my opinion that opportunities available to join a boat as "Paying Crew" can be extremely valuable and should be allowed on this site if it wishes to be classed as a true Crew Seeking site.
I am 60 years young and I have spent the last 3 years and 15,000+ NM crewing on numerous sailboats in the Mediterranean, Atlantic, Caribbean and Andaman Sea. I have crewed as "Paying Crew" and true "Shared Expenses"; unfortunately I must report that in general, the "Paying Crew" experiences were far better than the "Shared Expenses" experiences.
The reason for this in my opinion <u>and experience</u> is that the Skippers that need to take on Crew for a particular passage on a "Shared Expenses" basis can't wait to get rid of us when we arrive. We never have a real space that we can call our own, the skipper moans about the size of our sea bags (even though they insist that we bring all of our own foul weather gear, sleeping bag, PFD and lifeline and even a pillow!!! Basically the Skippers like to be on their own, are seriously lacking in social skills and some act like a modern day Captain Bligh (I have even seen a "crew wanted ad" that stated: I prefer the crew not to have any experience as I do not want to have to "Re-train" them!!!!!!!)
On the other side of the coin, the Skippers taking on "Paying Crew" to finance their lifestyle normally offer a comfortable berth of your own; bedding, foul weather gear and Safety gear are also normally provided. The Skipper also normally enjoys the social interaction with the crew otherwise he wouldn't do it.
I will accept that the above opinion is pretty generalised, I have had good "Shared Expenses" experiences and one bad "Paying Crew" experience but even though it costs me more money I will always look for a "Paying Crew" opportunity first and foremost.
I would also agree that some of the costs mentioned in earlier posts are very "over the top" and would constitute extreme commercialisation. I would normally expect to pay £30-£50/day as "Paying Crew" for full board on say a 46-50 ft boat. At that rate I certainly do not think the owner is running a profitable commercial venture, he is just making enough money to pay his running costs and maintenance on the boat. Normally I do not pay the money until I arrive on board so I can quickly assess the condition of the boat, safety gear provided etc, if I do not like what I see I leave with my money intact.
Most genuine "Paying Crew" Skippers will also give you refund if you leave earlier than expected.
As with all of the excellent advice given on this website, it is in our own interests to check out the "position" before we sign on wether it be shared expenses or paying crew.

As I have stated previously the above is my opinion only, but without the "Paying Crew" opportunities I certainly would not have enjoyed the last 3 years as much as I have and I certainly would not have met so many nice people rangeing from 23 year old backpackers to highly qualified surgeons - all with something in common - a desire to sail and see the world.
I thank you for this opportunity to give perhaps a little insight into the "other side of the coin"
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restless View Post
I expect this post to attract a strong reaction from the Moderators,
Not at all! This is an open discussion forum afterall.

I am pleased to read that you have had some good experiences and have managed to get a lot of sailing.

The policy of THIS forum's crewfinder however does not condone the practice for all the reasons that have been given on many threads regarding this subject. We are well aware that this is happening but we will not be seen to condone it. IT IS ILLEGAL if the vessel AND skipper are not documented to carry paying crew/passengers (read the Cruising Wiki's page on France - and many countries are aware of it and are closing down the loop-holes).

Money is changing hands so one would expect that those boats/crew would pay to advertise - not try to use free facilities such as ours. We do not accept these commercial advertisements but there are many crewfinders that will.

We have no interest in what boat-owners/crew do except for concern. We are not trying to stop the practise except to see that it is not facilitated through this forum. Our policy on the subject stands firm and I trust that you will accept that.

Quote:
... should be allowed on this site if it wishes to be classed as a true Crew Seeking site.
We are a Discussion Forum for cruisers and we have a (very successful) section to assist cruisers to find crew to assist them with various passages.
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restless View Post
I thank you for this opportunity to give perhaps a little insight into the "other side of the coin"
This site just has a policy of no paying crew members. There are many other places for one to advertise for paying crew. There are many reasons why one may wish to either pay the crew for crewing...or to be paid for sharing your boat with others--these things have been discussed at length in past posts (check the archives here on CL).

But, the Cruiser Log remains a website where crew looking for positions or skippers looking for crew can do so--if there is no payment made either way

Fair Winds,

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Old 11-24-2008, 05:26 PM   #7
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restless,

All of that is great that it worked for you. Only problem being the legality of it all, or should I type lack of legality. I have taken crew a couple of times. I give them their own berth, and share with them responsibility of watches. Depending on their experience, and, or common sense. I give some a freer hand. They get their own cabin, and I feed them better than they feed themselves. The only thing I have ever asked crew to pay for was their own liquor in port. As there is zero on the boat while underway.
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