Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Poop Deck
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-23-2009, 07:16 PM   #1
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Holy cow, just heard this on National Public Radio (NPR)

The Obama plan includes a requirement that if you lose your job...you can suspend mortgage payments for 3 years with no interest and no penalties and no foreclosure.

Sounds like time to rent out the house and go cruising, huh?
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 07:26 PM   #2
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

It is all SO SO wrong!
__________________

__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 07:40 PM   #3
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

WHo covers the cost of the mortgage whilst you are out sailing the ocean blue or doing whatever it is you do during the three years? IS Obama going to pay for that?
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 08:03 PM   #4
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

I believe "Hope & Change" will cover the tab

I knew I should have bought that $5,000,000.00 home with my tax refund!
__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 09:02 PM   #5
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim50 View Post
I believe "Hope & Change" will cover the tab

I knew I should have bought that $5,000,000.00 home with my tax refund!
If we give you Kevin Rudd's home phone number (Oz PM in case you're wondering - well he was last time I looked ) could you please give him a bit of a heads-up about that mortgage package?... see there's a few new toys that till now have been out of reach of our cruising kitty....
__________________
mico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 09:29 PM   #6
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim50 View Post
It is all SO SO wrong!
Yes, I'm beating my head against the wall when I think of the fact that we're really talking about also bailing out people who were using their houses as investments and...duh...the bubble burst. Every bubble does burst at some point and someone is always left holding the bag--why is this time any different?
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 11:19 PM   #7
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

What really really pisses me off are all the people that refinanced, paid-off credit cards, bought new SUVs and Jags and were living like miiilionairs here in Orange County while I was living on a boat, walking to the shower in the morning, driving my 7 year old jeep to a job that I know was paying me more than most of these clowns.

And now they want my tax money to cover their arses for 3 years...the hell with that, we are outa here!
__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2009, 12:10 AM   #8
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim50 View Post
What really really pisses me off are all the people that refinanced, paid-off credit cards, bought new SUVs and Jags and were living like miiilionairs here in Orange County while I was living on a boat, walking to the shower in the morning, driving my 7 year old jeep to a job that I know was paying me more than most of these clowns.

And now they want my tax money to cover their arses for 3 years...the hell with that, we are outa here!
It really doesn't bother me that folks lived beyond their means--I just don't want to pay for them doing so. I know what you mean, we've been pinching pennies for years due to a combination of bootstrapping our own business and saving our entire married life for taking off cruising. I haven't had a NEW car since 1985. Kept that one 'till it was totaled when I was rear-ended in 2001. Bought an $800 car (model yr 1987) to replace it. Still driving that one. Yep, I know how you feel. Living beyond our means hasn't ever been our style

Having said that, this week, I am writing a letter to my Congressional Representative, Senator, and the President regarding this whole "bail out" for a bubble thing. I don't have problems with the government doing what it needs to do to keep the credit markets moving--I don't want our economy going down the drain but I just have NO desire to pay for anyone's house but my own. And, I must admit, having sold our house in 2006 (seeing this bubble for what it was!) I really don't want to "support the prices" so that everyone else's house doesn't lose value either--I really don't care. Either a house is a home that one keeps for decades and doesn't really care about ups and downs in its value OR it is an investment that should be treated as such--when you see a bubble, you sell, rent a place and wait for things to settle down before getting back into the market at a lower and more reasonable price.

I suggest you and any one you know who feels the way we do--write your representatives. That is the only way that they will know how you feel about it. If enough people cry "foul" it can make a difference.

Take care
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2009, 12:21 AM   #9
Zog
Ensign
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 12
Default

It does tend to rub you up the wrong way. Here in Australia our government is handing out cash to all and sundry and calling it a "stimulus package". It's supposed to mean that the recipients of said money will spend it, therefore keeping businesses afloat. It does appear to be helping a little, but the thing I have a problem with is this: Those that are recieving unemployment benefits, many long term, and contribute nothing to the government via taxes, get the most cash. Those that earn a good wage, (yes, me included) and pay the most taxes, get nothing at all, yet it is mostly our money that will have to pay this back over coming years. The older I get, the less incentive there seems to be to work for a living. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of leeching off the government for the rest of my days, it just irritates me when I see how easy some have it on welfare and have no intention of working at all.

The way it stands at the moment, I could easily sell everything I own, buy a 30 or 40 foot yacht and cruise around Australia for the rest of my days living on welfare. Wouldn't sit right with me, and doesn't sit right that the government keeps encouraging this mentality.

Thats my rant for the day,

Cheers,

Dave.
__________________
Zog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2009, 02:58 PM   #10
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

A $800 replacement car...I love it!

I'm in the automotive business, and I don't like spending money on cars either...absolutely terrible use of money. Almost as bad as boats
__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2009, 07:40 PM   #11
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

The best car deal I ever made was selling my last car and not buying a new one. I walk to work (much healthier) and rent a car whenever I need one (not so often) and I have saved a lot of money. Maybe saved is the wrong terminology as it has been spent on other things (mainly the boats) but you get the point.

As I have diplomatic status, I can buy a new car every two years without paying a cent in tax which means any car I buy new would cost 1/3 less than the normal on-the-road price. I still think I am saving by not having a car. I wonder then how the maths works out for those who buy the new or "better" used car and drive to work on a daily basis?

Aye // Stephen
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2009, 08:37 PM   #12
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nausikaa View Post
The best car deal I ever made was selling my last car and not buying a new one. I walk to work (much healthier) and rent a car whenever I need one (not so often) and I have saved a lot of money. Maybe saved is the wrong terminology as it has been spent on other things (mainly the boats) but you get the point.

As I have diplomatic status, I can buy a new car every two years without paying a cent in tax which means any car I buy new would cost 1/3 less than the normal on-the-road price. I still think I am saving by not having a car. I wonder then how the maths works out for those who buy the new or "better" used car and drive to work on a daily basis?

Aye // Stephen
Lucky you that you don't live in California--where everything is "car distance" apart on highways and its frequently impossible to ride a bike to the desired location because of the way the highways cut off the little roads

We lived in Washington, DC for 13 wonderful years--the metro bus and metro rail and bike-friendly environment was really great. During that time, our cars were used exclusively on the weekends to haul things from the home store (as we were fixing up a large house...hum...has something in common with fixing up a boat...suckers aren't we ) and for driving trips to see my elderly father who lived in WV about a 5 hour drive from DC. Sometimes we'd rent a plane to go see Dad as there was a good airport in a small town near him and my husband needed to maintain his flying quals. But, there's very little way of getting around much of the USA without a car.

My "best deal" on a car is a 1976 Saab 99EMS I bought for $200 in 2000/2001...wanted its transmission to put in another car, a 1974 Saab 99LE... ended up fixing up the $200 car a bit with some new paint...a friend drove it for 2 years as a daily driver, then I drove it as my "main car" for a couple years and we still have it. Its pretty much indestructable. The friend who drove it for 2 years offers to store it in his barn at his vacation home in KY for us while we're cruising. So, suppose the $800 car will be sold and we'll keep the $200 car indefinitely

Bikes are a great way of getting around--in general with exception of California IMHO--we've got a folding bike for the boat and a regular road bike that we'll take apart to stowe on the boat as wel.
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 04:35 AM   #13
Ensign
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
Holy cow, just heard this on National Public Radio (NPR)

The Obama plan includes a requirement that if you lose your job...you can suspend mortgage payments for 3 years with no interest and no penalties and no foreclosure.

Sounds like time to rent out the house and go cruising, huh?
I don't believe this statement. Do you have any link to provide?

Who caused this problem? The people living beyond their means or the fools willing to loan them more money. Or was it the mentally challenged leaders of our country who removed all oversight of banks and promoted serious greed for all.
__________________
rigamarole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 06:07 AM   #14
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigamarole View Post
I don't believe this statement. Do you have any link to provide?

Who caused this problem? The people living beyond their means or the fools willing to loan them more money. Or was it the mentally challenged leaders of our country who removed all oversight of banks and promoted serious greed for all.
First, I don't make a habit of lying about what I hear on the radio--I have better things to do. Since this was not an internet story--No link--I heard it on National Public Radio on Monday Feb 23 in San Diego, CA..KPBS 89.5 FM. You're welcome to call or email them though it was likely a national radio show I was listening to. From the time I posted the topic, I suspect that I heard it earlier that morning.

I just now googled and didn't see it though I saw a couple other similar things--mostly deferring interest if unemployed--The thing I recalled being said was "suspend payments, defer interest and w/o penalties for up to 3 years if unemployed" which I thought was totally crazy.

Who caused the problem--your question was rhetorical and you suggested a couple things...responses below:

Well, the USA has a really weird relationship with the concept of home ownership. I'd suggest its our preoccupation with home ownership and even the way that many home owners treat renters like second-class citizens that drive people to purchase a house even when it is a stretch for them financially. It seems to me that you, yourself, even stated on one of our forums that you didn't appreciate non-homeowners having their kids in schools that homeowner taxes paid for--I've heard that statement many times from other people besides you as its a common statement that homeowners make--however, how does that make the non-homeowner feel? There are many little slights that renters experience in this country.

Family and friends as well as strangers all push, push, push for people to buy a house. They're told its the only way for them to "get ahead" by all these folks. If they want to fit in, they feel like buying a house...however they can do so and whether or not they can afford it. There are huge social pressures to be a home owner in the USA. Since folks are stretching to buy those houses, they (and the realtors and everyone in the real estate value chain) "talk up" their decision of home ownership as a good investment and push even more people into buying their homes rather than renting. After all, people are often spending everything they have on their home with little left over for real investing in anything else. It had darn well better be a good investment! The mentality in the USA is to buy homes rather than rent--even when it doesn't make good fiscal sense.

The leadership of our country work to push things in the direction that the people who elected them want; there is a see-saw of regulation and de-regulation going on all the time. It is a delicate balancing act that all politicians and the regulators must deal with--enough regulation but not too much. America prides itself on having a market driven economy and sufficient regulation but not too much. There's nothing mentally challenged about our leadership. They have a difficult job and do their best to do the will of the people. If we, the people, don't like what is going on, we have a responsibility to tell our elected officials what it is that we DO want. Write your representatives at local, state, and national levels and the President if you don't like the way things are going. Believe it or not, it does make a difference.
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 06:38 AM   #15
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigamarole View Post
Who caused this problem?
To me the answer is quite simple. The banks caused the problem.

The man-on-the-street can not be blamed as he, often, was following the advice of his friendly banker - who, after all, is supposedly an expert in matters financial. I remember being offered a loan by one of Sweden's biggest banks (and, at the time state owned to more than 50%) to buy shares. How sick is that - a bank offering to lend money to gamble with?

Politicians could be attributed a portion of the blame but, to be honest, this bubble started in the US and popped in the US. Americans have always prided themselves as independent thinkers, not prepared to be steered by Washington and yet when things go keel over truck the politicians are strung up.

No, politicians are not the cause, simply the scapegoats in this case.

Aye // Stephen
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 07:01 AM   #16
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nausikaa View Post
To me the answer is quite simple. The banks caused the problem.

The man-on-the-street can not be blamed as he, often, was following the advice of his friendly banker - who, after all, is supposedly an expert in matters financial. I remember being offered a loan by one of Sweden's biggest banks (and, at the time state owned to more than 50%) to buy shares. How sick is that - a bank offering to lend money to gamble with?

Politicians could be attributed a portion of the blame but, to be honest, this bubble started in the US and popped in the US. Americans have always prided themselves as independent thinkers, not prepared to be steered by Washington and yet when things go keel over truck the politicians are strung up.

No, politicians are not the cause, simply the scapegoats in this case.

Aye // Stephen


You made me laugh with your post! So true about all those independent thinkers blaming the government!

If they're so independent...they shouldn't be blaming the banks either though.

Stephen, you don't live here in the USA--have you ever? There is such pressure to buy a house it is incredible. Further, our method of getting loans is not to go to the bank but instead to a loan "broker" who shops the loan package around to various banks. The banks are often unaware of the little mis-truths that were put on the application when the buyer and broker get together (with the real estate agent too...) to make sure they can get that loan and into the house. Its a shady business in many cases and especially for first time home buyers or folks with low income or bad credit.

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 01:15 PM   #17
Ensign
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14
Default

Redbopeep, sorry. I did'nt mean to accuse you of lying but it did come out that way.

I just haven't heard this and find it hard to believe. While it would be really ridiculous to allow someone 3 years to get their act straight, the discount that banks are taking right now on forclosures may justify it. I've purchase 10 homes in the Portage, Michigan market in the last 6 months with each one going for less than half it's appraised value. In one deal, the morgage on the property was for $265k and I got it for $47. The real value was probably $150k. It would have made a world of sense to not foreclose on this property but - what the heck.
__________________
rigamarole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 01:24 PM   #18
Ensign
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
The leadership of our country work to push things in the direction that the people who elected them want; there is a see-saw of regulation and de-regulation going on all the time. It is a delicate balancing act that all politicians and the regulators must deal with--enough regulation but not too much. America prides itself on having a market driven economy and sufficient regulation but not too much. There's nothing mentally challenged about our leadership. They have a difficult job and do their best to do the will of the people. If we, the people, don't like what is going on, we have a responsibility to tell our elected officials what it is that we DO want. Write your representatives at local, state, and national levels and the President if you don't like the way things are going. Believe it or not, it does make a difference.
A fair number do the will of the people who pay them, not the will of the population. Campaign contributions, lobbiests, and the promise of a high paying job upon leaving office plays more into the decission then concensus. Ego, corruption, and greed has been a cornerstone of Washington for too long. Most in office are institutionallized to it and can't get off the merry-go-round.

This is of course "In My Humble Opinion" - which isn't worth much
__________________
rigamarole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 01:54 PM   #19
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
Stephen, you don't live here in the USA--have you ever? There is such pressure to buy a house it is incredible. Further, our method of getting loans is not to go to the bank but instead to a loan "broker" who shops the loan package around to various banks.
Have I ever been to the US? Yep. I lived in Pasadena TX for two years in, dare I say it, rented accommodation.

Incidentally, I have moved around a lot so I tend to have a different take on issues which people living in the same country or even continent all their lives often do not have or, perhaps, appreciate.

You are right - blaming the banks puts it in a European perspective. I made an error (don't worry, I will blame the politicians for it). I should have written "banks or other financial institutions".

The one really good thing to come out of all this, as far as I am concerned, is that my brother-in-law, who was an accountant for the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank and was always trying to persuade me to make "investments" against my will has now been proven utterly and totally wrong. On the other hand - he still has his fat pension and spends his days driving his BMW to the golf course whilst I, only two years younger, face working for another 10 years before I can hope for any financed leisure time.

Aye // Stephen
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2009, 02:29 PM   #20
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigamarole View Post
Who caused this problem? The people living beyond their means or the fools willing to loan them more money. Or was it the mentally challenged leaders of our country who removed all oversight of banks and promoted serious greed for all.
I believe all of the above. The part that I'm still trying to understand, is why did the government allow this to happen? We all saw this train coming back in 2002 - 2003 when they started loaning NegAm, and Stated Income on $500K homes to field workers here in California.

The government knew this was happening for nearly 6 years. They watched and waited...but why???

One possibility that has been tossed around is that it helped pay for the war. I'm interested in hearing anybody's guess or insight.
__________________

__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Cunning Plan haiqu The Tavern | Welcome Aboard 2 05-24-2011 06:29 AM
Sail Plan Comps Tacoma Rigging & Sails 5 01-31-2010 09:12 PM
Transpac49 Sail Plan SteveW General Cruising Forum 3 09-24-2009 03:35 AM
I Would Like Advice On My Plan iwantsail Regional Discussions 4 06-19-2008 04:17 AM
Passage plan Med > Canaries Gudjbahl General Cruising Forum 2 12-10-2005 05:49 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
×