Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Poop Deck
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-14-2005, 06:49 PM   #1
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 104
Default Electrolasis on ferro yacht

Not sure on the spelling but my yacht is again on the hard stand with this ongoing problem of loosing her undercoat, primer and anti fouling, different brands etc have all been tried. The rudder and sounder are timber and accrylic restpectfully and don't have a problem. Annodes are plentiful and eroding a bit faster than expected. The hull is down to bare concrete every 10 months!!! Has anyone else had the problem and more importantly been able to solve it. There was nothing wrong with the prep work and several brands on paints used with always the same result. There is no armature exposed inside or out and the hull is sound with never any rust stains. I have found that the batteries have an earth to the motor which also goes to a thru hull bolt!!?? Maybe that's a problem?? IT IS NOT CAUSTIC SOADA LEACHING.[?]

Thanks for any replies.

Peter Christie bedouin@hotkey.net.au

Australia
__________________

__________________
Bedouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2005, 03:36 PM   #2
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4
Default

go out and find some zinc anode bigger the better it will slow it down.or There is a short on the boat that is touching the hull which speeds it up the anode will go on the propellers shaft and can be found at west marine tell them the problem they will know
__________________

__________________
spencerDbishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2005, 07:47 PM   #3
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,871
Default

There is an excellent article by Allan Whiting on page 98 in the latest edition (issue 339) of the Oz publication Trade-A-Boat. It deals in part with different alloys used in anodes to address specific problems. Perhaps the author of the story can be contacted through the mag's editor, Geoff Middleton. Best wishes.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2005, 07:42 AM   #4
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 104
Default

FAULT FOUND... It was found to be the battery earth cable going to a through hull bolt(one of several used to mount the prop shaft support bearing), then another cable from the bolt to the engine block. What was happening was that the bolt was 'live' when cranking the motor and when the motor was running as battery power is used to excite the alternator. Because the bolt was live it then passed current into the anti fouling paint, being copper based, then into the water. This was the coarse of least resistence, a law of electricity. So the paint was removed from the hull like electroplating in reverse!!! The same would apply to a steel hull so check your battery earth cable to make sure it goes directly from battery to engine and not to the hull as part of the earth return. Have a look; it could save you a lot of anti fouling!!

Regards to all

Peter
__________________
Bedouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2005, 09:58 PM   #5
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,871
Default

Hi Peter, Just wondering what sort of antifouling paint you ended up using on your boat. I am hauling out in October. I have had a jotun paint on the bum for four years. It was applied in Rebak marina in Malaysia and is seriously potent...but, alas, it is unavailable here. Have you any experience with the coppershield type of paint. I know it is expensive and I wonder if it is worthwhile.

David
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2005, 06:12 PM   #6
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 104
Default

Hi David, I have sent you an email direct. If I can help you out in any way drop me a line. Jotun is available in Mooloolaba.

Regards

Peter
__________________
Bedouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2006, 06:42 PM   #7
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 104
Default

For those in Australia I wrote an article on the problem which has been published in February edition of Cruising Helmsman, The problem was the battery earth cable and the anti fouling is looking as good today as it was when applied last July/August. By now it would have been all gone. I'm a happy chappy now!!!

Regards

Peter
__________________
Bedouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 11:07 AM   #8
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 16
Default

Read the article you had published regarding the earth connected to the hull. We have tried to isolate the earths for the hull in own steely but we still have anchor winch motor, electric motor from auto pilot, engine is solid mounted. For us this seems to be impossible.
__________________
Jackiy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 06:13 PM   #9
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 104
Default

Time for an update. Bedouin has been back in the water for a year now and with all her anti fouling still looking great and the annodes about 60% remailing. That is exceptional and confirms to me that the problem was in fact in the electrical earth wiring. That has given me a lot of peace of mind having seen the result after a year.

Regards to all

Peter
__________________
Bedouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 08:22 AM   #10
Ensign
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Home Port: auckland
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedouin View Post
Not sure on the spelling but my yacht is again on the hard stand with this ongoing problem of loosing her undercoat, primer and anti fouling, different brands etc have all been tried. The rudder and sounder are timber and accrylic restpectfully and don't have a problem. Annodes are plentiful and eroding a bit faster than expected. The hull is down to bare concrete every 10 months!!! Has anyone else had the problem and more importantly been able to solve it. There was nothing wrong with the prep work and several brands on paints used with always the same result. There is no armature exposed inside or out and the hull is sound with never any rust stains. I have found that the batteries have an earth to the motor which also goes to a thru hull bolt!!?? Maybe that's a problem?? IT IS NOT CAUSTIC SOADA LEACHING.[?]

Thanks for any replies.

Peter Christie bedouin@hotkey.net.au

Australia
I have had the same problem. I took the hull back to concrete below the waterline, acid washed with dilute HCL to clean all lime off. then acetone washed. Then sealed with Altexl 2 pot no.1 This was then lighty sanded 12 hours after application and antifouled with altex no. 10 antifoul. I have not has any flaking off or any problems since. It is a big job but worth it Each haul out will be easier to sand and antifoul in the future.
Good luck.
__________________
boadecianz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 07:48 PM   #11
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boadecianz View Post
Each haul out will be easier to sand and antifoul in the future.
Good luck.
Thanks for adding your experience and advice to this thread!
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 06:55 AM   #12
Capt'n
 
Lexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
Default Jotun

Hi,

Last August I antifouled my ferro yacht with Jotun Sea Victor 50. It is available at Cairns Paints and Ross Haven Marine in Townsville.

From memory I think I paid round $450 for 10 litres.

I dived on the hull at Lowe Isles on April 22 and only found the slightest layer of slime, nothing that a kitchen scourer wouldnt remove with a quick wipe down. Might do that when I go to Snapper Island in a couple of weeks time.

Hope this helps ...

Lexx
__________________
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
Lexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 03:50 AM   #13
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 13
Default

I purchased a ferro-cement yacht (actually, a laminated ferro-cement yacht) and have been researching cement, coatings, sealants, and other materials to protect and strengthen my hull.

I happened, in a thrift store, upon ProSeal DP36; a concrete sealer which goes into the concrete and forms a polymer matrix which actually seals the cement against vapors. This stuff is used on the Panama Canal!

I have yet to try it, and I can't even be sure that the lot I have is still good; though I assume it is. Application is quite difficult however; as the hull must be completely dried, then flushed of all salts, then rinsed in dionized water. The hull must be wetted with dionized water before application as well (the flush and rinse are assumed prerequisites to eliminate competetive ions.)

There is another problem: the stuff is $400/gallon. However; I obtained 44 gallons at $3/gallon, and have access to another 288 gallons.

I will be testing the stuff when I haul out in the coming months. I have to acquire or make a water dionizer, and also have to use it to flush out my hull armature, as I had a hole where my bowsprit attached to the bow which let in sufficient seawater to flood the armature to sea level. This isn't a big deal, as long as I flush and drain it; I also plan to investigate galvanic treatment to remove all Chlorine ions. I will then flood the armature with DP36 to ensure treatment is complete.



I will attempt to report on my findings here or elsewhere when I am done. As far as I know, once the hull is sealed, it can remain as bare cement; though I will likely paint it.

As for paint, I recommend oil based one-part expoxy. I have 5 gallons of some brand, but as the label is destroyed and it was given to me, I do not know what brand it is. I think perhaps the key to getting bottom paint on and sticking is to properly prepare the hull. Being dry is of parmount import of course, but you will also want to rinse the hull with dionized water if you can.

You might try the FerroBoat forums and other resources to see if there is any prior research on the subject. There are not many ferro-cement boats in the US; but they are quite common, I hear, in Europe and Austrailia/New Zealand (where Ferroboats is based).


If you are interested in trying DP36, I can secure as much as you think you would need, and get it to you at a substantial discount over the retail of $400/gallon.

Feel free to contact me privately - a good idea as I have memory issues and cannot guarantee I will see replies.


One last thing of interest: my hull was made by Fibersteel, and still retains the original paint in most places. You might consider contacting the principles of Fibersteel and asking them about coatings and paints. The paint shows through the bottom paint put on this boat 10 years ago (though she sat in freshwater all but a week or so of that time.)


And by the way, congratulations on your owning a ferro-cement yacht. It is an excellent hull material that does not deserve the poor reputation it has in America. Greed, not the material, are why ferro-cements are unpopular in America, as unscrupulous salesmen duped people with ads in the backs of magazines about building ferro-cement boats in backyards with cheap materials. The result was a disaster for the reputation of ferro-cement boats in America. I for one am glad, as I could never have afforded a 57' hull otherwise (savy readers will know which Fibersteel yacht I own by its length). I really liked reading the survey and seeing a $675,000 replacement cost, in 2003! I'm guessing it would cost $1,500,000.ooUSD to replace the hull these days.
__________________
Guest2013b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 01:23 PM   #14
GOF
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Home Port: Mandurah
Vessel Name: Eleuthera
Posts: 124
Default

Hobart 57
__________________
Oldsquizzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 02:35 AM   #15
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,871
Default

I agree with you that a good ferro-cement boat is a good boat indeed. I do not however, share your lack of concern about the following:
“….which let in sufficient seawater to flood the armature to sea level. This isn't a big deal, as long as I flush and drain it”.
Spalling is the only true enemy of ferro boats. I wonder firstly how you can ‘flush and drain it’. Merely pumping fresh water into it will do little except make it wet, unless there is a means of having the water exit the hull, at a point below where the salt water was able to get in. Even so it will be virtually impossible to remove the salt without exposing the affected armature completely, sand blasting any rusted parts of the armature, and then replastering the damaged area. The process of drying the dampened cement alone can take weeks of fine weather even after the area has been exposed, especially so if the area has been wet for a long time.
Once water and oxygen has been in contact with the armature, oxidation will occur. As I am sure you will be aware, when steel rusts, it expands, and has the effect of causing spalling. Or, it starts to crack the hull making it weaker in the best of cases, and blowing it apart in the worst.
The problem is made worse being as it is in the bow. If this area of the boat is sufficiently weakened any collision with a wharf, or other solid object could have severe effects. Also the rig is largely dependent upon the integrity of the forestay and its anchoring point at the bow.
It is of major importance to address any breaching collision or water ingress into the inner hull as soon as possible after the event. The armature should be exposed and treated in all cases. Catastrophic failure may not necessarily result, but the likelihood of it occurring is significantly enhanced with the passage of time.
While there are many ferro boats still in use after over a century of service, many do not survive. In most cases it is not due to poor build quality. In many, severe damage occurred because the builder bid not properly crimp the twitchings, which led to rust, which spread and caused spalling.
As with home built trimarans in the 60’s and 70’s, it only took one or two badly plastered home built ferro boats, to damage their reputation. Nowadays, the cost of materials, and labour, make ferro boats far too expensive to build with the consequence they have almost disappeared from the modern boat building lexicon.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:27 AM   #16
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 13
Default

I'm going to have to ask for your credentials or experience. I will not discuss a subject with someone unless they are sufficiently knowledgeable and can demonstrate their knowledge. I have precious little time, and discussing the merits of my ship's hull with someone not sufficiently knowledgable is just a waste of my time.


Also, I will NOT get into ANY kind of argument with anyone over the merits of ferro-cement, and especially considering I have a laminated ferro-cement hull. I also have a little rule about discussing topics with people who are ill- or misinformed. I deal only in truth. If you wish to know more about Laminated Ferro-Cement; the US Navy put out a few documents on the subject.

Ferro-cement is the right material for me, and laminated ferro-cement makes it all the better. My yacht will outlive me, and it is the ideal hull material for my needs. So none of the ill-informed arguments anyone gives will ever deter me from ferro. Jealousy is the true motivator of those who desparage Ferro-cement. I don't have to wait for perfect condition to repair my hull; as long as it is above freezing, I just make some mud, slop it into the hole, brace it, and my repair job is PERMANENT. Do that with fiberglass! Do that with steel. Do that with wood.

Now imagine you are going to sail for real - an adventure, like circumnavigating Antarctica (first done in a ferro-cement) or going to the north pole unsupported (my goal). Do you really want to be in a hull that is anything other than ferro-cement? You hit ice, or a log and get holed; you have no port to pull into, no commercial towing, no shipping lanes - NOTHING. You have to repair that hole yourself, and it has to get you all the way back to civilization.


The cost to build my hull today is likely well into a million US dollars. So I think that getting my ship for $30,000 is the bargain of the century, and I owe it all to ignorance and prejudice. So in that regard, thank you to all of you who desparage ferro-cement hulls. You made my voyage possible on my budget!
__________________
Guest2013b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:48 AM   #17
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,871
Default

First ferro boat: 45' Adams Whimoway, sailed around the coast of Australia and through Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, then across the Indian ocean. Second Ferro boat: Adams Aquila 55. Sailed from Australia via southeast Asia to Japan and back. During this trip I spent 30 hours in a hurricane. Owned and maintained ferro boats for 25 years...and I never needed to get nasty or overly defensive with anyone when addressing my passion.
I am neither ignorant nor prejudiced and have probably spent more time maintaining and sailing ferro boats than many...possibly even you! And my knowledge did not come from reading a book published by the US navy, it came from personal, hands-on experience.

Ferro, timber, aluminium, steel (my current boat) fibreglass; they are all good when properly constructed. The thing which makes the difference is not the boat, but the knowledge and seamanship of the sailor and if you don't have that...and if you are not prepared to listen to others without becoming aggressive, then you're not much of a bloody sailor.

To see how the real sailing community regard ferro (as opposed to the theorists who have obviously so influenced you) look at this link http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/f12...ferro-525.html then do a search of these forums...you never know, you might learn something; such as: Awanhee was the first FERRO boat to circumnavigate Antarctica in 1970. It missed being the first sailing boat to do so by about 200 years (timber) and by many, many others in the intervening years made from alloy, steel and grp.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 05:51 AM   #18
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 13
Default

You are on my ignore list now for the simple reason that you assume WAY too much.

You do not know me, nor do you know my ship, nor do you know my experience, skills, expertise, or level of intellectual capability. And I did mention that I only deal in truth. Hands on experience is useless without base understanding. Do you know what Laminated Ferro-Cement is, and what its advantages are over ferro-cement? How many Fibersteel hulls have you owned, sailed, worked on, seen.

I offer a resource of knowledge, and you reject it, even while assuming far, far too much about what you believe my intentions and emotional state are.

And again, I said I only deal in truth. Why then would you judge me for not taking your "advice" when it is proffered without a lick of credibility to back it up. Do you expect me to simply take your advice because you have (uncommunicated) experience?

I have dealt with behavior like this before, and unfortunately, my experience (as well as my understanding of the underlying reasons which explain the behavior) dictate an extremely insignificant possibility that you will change your tune. As such, I am going to have to state that you will be ignored by me henceforth. I am far more capable of sailing my vessel and understanding it than someone on the other side of the world who feels his experience alone qualifies him to hand out advice as though on authority.

Please do not be offended. You aren't unique in your behavior here; most people act this way. It is an artifact of our system unfortunately.


I do appreciate your efforts and am grateful for them. But I must ignore the substance of your efforts on account of its inappropriateness for my particular situation. There is no judgement, and no hard feelings on my part. I just hope my honesty and forewardness are not misconstrued. I would shake your hand and express my appreciation even as I told you "thanks but no thanks for the advice" if we met in person.



I will ask you to please refrain from questioning my status as a sailor however; that's a bit far below the belt.
__________________
Guest2013b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 11:08 PM   #19
Lieutenant
 
duckwheat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Home Port: Ballard
Vessel Name: VAGABON
Posts: 65
Default prickly, prickly, prickly..........................

Please do not be offended. You aren't unique in your behavior here; most people act this way. It is an artifact of our system unfortunately.

No one really talks like that. What the hell is an artifact of our system?
You have to be a complete fraud, coming along to stir up good God fearing people.

No one ever gets mad at Auzee. He is about as nice and gracious a guy as you are going to meet on here.


What is up with you? Blog Baiter?

DW
__________________

__________________
Motivational Group Leader and Life Coach
duckwheat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do You Have A Ferro? Bead General Cruising Forum 40 08-26-2015 12:02 PM
Ferro-cement Boats maidmarian General Cruising Forum 17 08-28-2009 02:42 PM
Ferro Hulls whatnot General Cruising Forum 1 01-14-2008 09:56 PM
Ferro Cement boats catherine@brittany-gites. General Cruising Forum 9 01-24-2007 08:47 AM
Ferro-Concrete Boot lutzonline General Cruising Forum 6 08-23-2006 01:24 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
×