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Old 07-13-2007, 04:05 PM   #29
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Here is a paper very worthwhile reading if you still believe in human glabal warming.

CO2_effects_on_temperature.pdf

If someone actually reads it, I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts.
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Old 08-19-2007, 12:28 AM   #30
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So....as global warming continues we may be faced with rises in sea levels to the extent that some countries may disappear beneath the ocean's surface.

This may be twisted logic, and forever paint me as a bit of a prawn, but how much of the rise in level would be attributed to expansion as the water becomes warmer; and how much to the effects of the addition of meltwater?

If you watch your glass of iced water as the ice melts, the water level will not increase. Indeed it will fall..almost imperceptibly, but on a large scale such as is the case in oceans, the fall would be easily measureable.

Therefore any rise in sea levels from meltwater, would have to come from ice which is above the existing water level and which would first have to overcome the lowering of the waterlevel resulting from the melting of submerged ice.

Add to this the retention in the atmosphere of a vastly increased amount of water molecules, (as I understand warmer air absorbs and holds more vapour which can be read as increased humidity), and it seems to me that the balance will not change so significantly as to cause the next great inundation as predicted by those who make money from justifying such predictions.

So the questions I ask are: Is the water level issue of genuine concern to low lying countries? Are well meaning greenies perpetrating a con? Do I need to alter the boot line on my boat? Am I visionary, or an idiot?

Cheese.

David.
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:10 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzee View Post
Do I need to alter the boot line on my boat? Am I visionary, or an idiot?

Cheese.

David.
You are truly a visionary!

According to NASA:

Sea levels crept up about 20 centimeters during the twentieth century. Most of the rise happened because water expands as it warms, though melting mountain glaciers also contributed to the change. Sea levels are predicted to go up between 0.18 and 0.59 meters over the next century, though the increase could be greater if ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica melt more quickly than predicted.

As much as 10 percent of the world’s population lives in coastal regions where the elevation is less than 10 meters above sea level. These communities will become increasingly prone to storm damage and flooding as sea levels rise. Among the most vulnerable countries is Bangladesh, which has low elevation, a high population density, and is one of the world’s poorest nations. Red areas indicate populations that live less than 10 meters above sea level, while green areas show the population density in areas with an elevation greater than 10 meters.

Bangladesh.jpg

If we were a smart bunch, we would start speculating land for new marinas. However, there is a big difference between 0.59 meters and 10 meters...and a century is a bit longer than I intend to be around.
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:26 AM   #32
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I've got a mate who is Bangladeshi....he's not in the least bit dense.

David.
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
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I've got a mate who is Bangladeshi....he's not in the least bit dense.

David.
That one took me a few seconds

I often wonder if we will be able to get our money back from the climatologists 10 or 20 years from now when the climate starts to cool again.
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Old 08-19-2007, 02:01 AM   #34
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Of course we will!

It was only last week I received a compensation cheque from the Y2K foundation.

David
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Old 08-19-2007, 02:20 AM   #35
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Old 08-19-2007, 12:17 PM   #36
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Sitting where I am in the corner quietly sipping my pint and listening to but not understanding much more than about 10% of this discussion, I cannot help but think that the underlying problem has been "defined" by those who have a political, religious or social axe to grind.

If we accept the greater truth that, unless we're in Hollywood, there's probably nothing that we can do to influence significantly the development of the cosmos, our universe or the earths core, the problem reduces to an assessment of whether what we (can) do now is good or bad for us. If it's good, let's continue, if it's bad let's see if we can't make some changes for the better.

Personally, I see every reason to reduce/moderate our demands on life to address our needs rather than feeding our marketing drive insecurities and lack of self worth. Simplistic? Maybe but Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs provides a pretty good starting point for this with the present distribution of resources and wealth/power being the major contributors.

The real question for me now is can the political powers of the last few centuries change their positioning and help the emerging powers to adopt a more realistic view of what we all actually need?

Another pint, please!
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Old 08-19-2007, 06:35 PM   #37
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Peter,

What I find truly disturbing is the world wide hysteria and how all kinds of political and commercial entities are attaching themselves to the Global Warming Band Wagon. This link is to a site here in California which airs a commercial every couple of hours telling everyone that "Global Warming isn't just a fact, it's a choice"...and speaking to future generations that "We knew how to stop global warming, but our generation chose not to".

In the end of the advertisement, you find that this is actually a commercial to sell compact florescent light bulbs (CFLs). Guilt sells…history tells us it sells for a long long time. Apparently we know how to stop global warming...but because we didn't buy CFL or new Econs, we flooded homes and rivers for our children's generation.

http://www.fypower.org/

Watch the add here:

http://www.fypower.org/res/ads/

Can you believe this garbage is allowed to be air'd?
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:06 PM   #38
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I can't claim to understand what is going on. Does anybody?

What I do know is that we had great summers the past three years with lots of sun and hot weather................and global warming was blamed for this

This year we have had one of the worst summers I can recall with wind, rain, cold, more rain and even more rain........................and global warming is blamed for this.

Now, I may be a bit denser than the aforementioned Bangladeshi but I just don't get it. Either global warming makes it warmer and drier here or it makes it colder and wetter. Surely it can't be both?



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Old 08-19-2007, 09:43 PM   #39
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Actually it can.

I have no doubt that the climate is warming and most likely a large portion of the planet's ice will melt just as it has done in the past before humans were here to spew that dreadful carbon dioxide into the air. With the warming process will come significant changes in weather patterns typically resulting in more rain during normal dry months and hot dry periods during normal cold months.

The issue at hand, in my opinion, is the manipulation of human guilt for political and commercial purposes. Never before have we seen such a powerful global issue being spun by political media machines with cutting precision. Carbon dioxide is a life giving gas and yet it is now classified by most humanity in equal standing with carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons as most humans have no idea what the difference is between these species of gas molecules. Most people don’t even realize that we exhale carbon dioxide and therefore contribute to the evil known as the “carbon cycle.” Just for comparison, if all the cars on the planet burned 1 gallon of gasoline each day, it would only equate to 3x the carbon dioxide emission produced by humans breathing while at rest.
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Old 08-20-2007, 01:55 AM   #40
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After reading all the way through the topic - I agree : Global Warming is caused by Hot Air
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:27 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
Global Warming is caused by Hot Air


Nice one!

Aye

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Old 08-20-2007, 10:14 AM   #42
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"Weatherman" was part joke.

The Earth cooled 500 years ago. These weather experts have not found out why. I find it hard to believe that they know a cause for "Global Warming". The Earth warms and cools. No 2 years are the same. The experts cannot even tell where the biggest storms are going to hit several days in advance. I cannot believe them whern then tell me what is going to happen with the weather several years from now and if Humans had anything to do with it. It could have been a big fires or volcanos or the lack of them.
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