Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Poop Deck
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-20-2007, 11:16 PM   #1
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

http://www.esquire.com/features/sailing1207

My inspiration comes partly from Ken Barnes, who was rescued off Chile in January. A man with a pool-cleaning business who dreamed for years of sailing the globe, he wanted carbon fiber, too, but couldn't afford it. So he did what most sailors on a more limited budget would do: He bought a tough old boat -- a forty-four-foot steel ketch -- and outfitted it for the expedition. By the time he set off, he had spent $250,000 and more than three years preparing.

If he spent $250,000 on his boat...none of it was on blocks or sail handling hardware.
__________________

__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 12:48 AM   #2
Moderator
 
JeanneP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

I don't like to throw cold water on anybody's dreams, but I can't help asking why anyone would want to do this. There are lots of challenges in the world, but what's the point in this case? Oh, well, to each his own.
__________________

__________________
In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

SY WATERMELON |
MV WATERMELON (New) | Cruiser's Dictionary, free ebook

= Cruiser's Dictionary, North America,
JeanneP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 03:10 AM   #3
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,822
Default

P'raps there was $20,000 worth of tools and hardware from Home Depot, and 4600 hours of his own labour at $50 per hour

= $250,000

David
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 09:12 AM   #4
Rear Admiral
 
Harbor_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 323
Default

Reading the intent, I think Ken Barnes set stupid goals, was irresponsible, took bad risks, than lived up to them, and now is attempting to capitalize on his tragedy. He did not accomplish anything. Had he, it would be soon forgotten, except in his mind.

That happened shortly after we just took an interest in sailing and circumnavigating. Ken Barnes was NOT an example we want to follow.

Jeff and Candee
__________________
When in doubt, do the right thing.

Harbor_Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 05:49 PM   #5
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbor_Pilot View Post
Reading the intent, I think Ken Barnes set stupid goals, was irresponsible, took bad risks, than lived up to them, and now is attempting to capitalize on his tragedy. He did not accomplish anything. Had he, it would be soon forgotten, except in his mind.

That happened shortly after we just took an interest in sailing and circumnavigating. Ken Barnes was NOT an example we want to follow.

Jeff and Candee
I'm inclined to agree with the general sentiment that this adventure seems ill-advised, but...there are certain people throughout history who seem determined to ensure their departure from the gene pool. The problem is how much it costs to try and save them, oftentimes costs measured in additional lives, not just dollars (or whatever the new world currency will be

seer
__________________
Seeratlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 09:05 PM   #6
Rear Admiral
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Default

Can you explain to me what the stupid goals were? If you mean to sail the Southern Ocean. Then why climb Everest, or go to the moon? Not everyone is meant to stay at home in the comfort of the easy chair. Not everyone is meant to sail the Southern Oceans. Most of us are somewhere in between. Have you ever read what it took just to survey the route for the continental railroad?

If his preperation was bad, and his equipment faulty then he shouldn't go. Yes, it cost lots of money to save his bottom, but if you were coastal cruising, and hit in the night by a whale. I am sure you would want your bottom saved too. Should we put a ban on adventure? Or maybe just draw some lines to what can be done, and what can't?

It is not like the rescue vessel left San Francisco with the only purpose to rescue Ken. This is a vessel in the same area coming to his assistance. I tried to google Ken's name, but could not find anything telling me if he was a shouldn't go, or prepared to go. Can anybody direct me with this information?
__________________
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:16 AM   #7
Moderator
 
JeanneP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

From what I remember from reading his blog and various discussions, Ken had done no blue water sailing until he set sail on this voyage. He spent a lot of time preparing his project boat, but I could find no mention of his preparing himself. He had bad luck, perhaps, but it seemed to me that lack of blue water experience resulted in his making more and bigger mistakes than a more experienced blue water sailor would make. Small mistakes in the more moderate tropical latitudes don't have the same impact that

they do in the lower lats, the roaring forties, the furious fifties.

I don't believe that anybody who has tried to climb Mt. Everest chose that mountain as their first mountain, or did it on a budget with used gear and clothes from Goodwill or the Salvos. I also don't know of anybody who climbed Mt. Everest without a crew of Sherpas to carry gear and help with the climb.

Is there an astronaut who made a solo flight to the moon in some amateur home-rebuilt rocket?

Nobody but a fool makes his first downhill ski experience on the Expert trail. But if they do, they will usually endanger only themselves.

Race car drivers risk not only their lives, but their competitors' lives as well so they have to qualify before they're allowed on the race track, and that's driving school, and lesser competitions. You can't say "I've been driving cross-country in my Buick for the past ten years, so of course I can race on your race track."

Yet there is nothing that can stop a rank amateur from taking his uninspected, unlicensed sailboat thousands of miles offshore. I believe you have to pay your dues, which Ken hadn't done, and he paid for it with the loss of his boat, and almost the loss of his life.

The Chilean fishing boat that came to his rescue gave up several days fishing to put its crew in danger as it steamed to save Ken, then had to go out of its way the other direction to bring Ken to land. They probably had better things to do than to go rescue some Gringo on a spiritual quest.

Ken Barnes was little different from the guy with more money than brains who takes his new powerboat offshore, then asks the Coast Guard how he will find Sandwich, "are there signs?" Sailing's easy, isn't it? Just pull up the sail and follow the white line, right?
__________________
In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

SY WATERMELON |
MV WATERMELON (New) | Cruiser's Dictionary, free ebook

= Cruiser's Dictionary, North America,
JeanneP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 03:58 PM   #8
Rear Admiral
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Default

JeanneP,

I see your point, and that is what I was asking for. I clearly understand all of your comparisons. It is amazing with no experience at all he left for the Horn. Maybe he assumed he would gain experience along the way.

I myself after sailing on S.F. Bay for 18 months left for Mexico alone. I had been on other peoples boats, but was only a passenger before I bought my own. I was told by many that if you can sail S.F. Bay you can sail anywhere. That's a crock of poopoo. It is a great learning place, but it is not the ocean.

I thought I was taking the Milk Run, but that year the winds were southerly. When I got to Cabo, and signed in for the 93 Baja ha ha. I was a completely different sailor. When signing in there was a request for a remark about the trip. IF THIS IS THE MILK RUN THEN I HAVE GOT LOTS OF SPILT MILK was my comment. The comment was later used in Latitude 38 to describe the weather for that year......LOL.
__________________
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 08:40 PM   #9
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
It is amazing with no experience at all he left for the Horn. Maybe he assumed he would gain experience along the way.
Unfortunately, he is not the only one to have done this. There are many stories of sailors who have put to see, often in inadequate boats, and successfully completed circumnavigations and other magnificent feats - but they were the ones who survived and could then write books about it. Examples: Shane Acton aboard Shrimpy, a young American man called Graham (I believe) and a German by the name of Wolfgang Erdmann.

Unless you have a good vessel and adequate experience then it is Fortuna herself who's hands are on the tiller. The irony of it is that without experience one makes mistakes but, mostly, experience comes from mistakes. Talk about a Catch 22 situation! The only way arround this is to gradualy gain experience by slowly pushing the limits further and further and not by jumping in a the deap end.

Now this would appear to be common sense but unfortunately it is not and this brings me to my major gripe. What is it that these 'sailors' believe gives them the right to put other yachtsmen, fishermen, merchant seamen, as well as the crews of naval and coast guard ships and aircraft at risk when they call MRCC to bail them out in an emergency? In my opinion this is the summit of egoistic behavior. No, not quite. The paramount example occured to me when I was a sub-lieutenant on a small coast guard cutter which had rescued the same man no less than six times! He would put out to sea and then, after but a few hours, would cry for help as he was lost, sick, had motor problems etc. He only gave up sailing when we, quite illegally, threatened not to tow him to port but to sink his boat if it happened again. But that is another story.........

I know I have said this before but I have another issue with this kind of behavior. People have a tendancy to tar everybody with the same brush and thus such irresponsible actions puts all cruisers in a bad light. We cannot afford this or governments will try to regulate the cruising world even more rigerously than today and, as user pays is the current creed in political circles, then we cruisers will end up paying even more for our simple pleasures.

John Masefield may have asked for nothing more than "a tall ship and a star to steer her by" and there are many who have fallen for the same desire but even the good Poet Lauriate himself had spent a number of years training for the sea in H.M.S. Conway.

Aye // Stephen
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 09:00 PM   #10
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,822
Default

Of equal concern are those with vast experience who take risks which, if they fail, are seen as heroic. For example Tony Bullimore and Isabelle Autissier. Both are superb sailors, both sailing exceedingly well prepared boats, both single-handing in around the world races, both facing huge seas in the southern ocean, both failed spectacularly, both rescued at great expense (One of them in successive races, and near the same location), both made a huge profit from their failed adventures...and, neither offered to use their profits to compensate those who took risks to save them from a miserable death.

So who poses the lesser danger to others, the well intentioned crewed-up novice who is aware of his shortcomings; or the confident, highly experienced millionaire thrill seeker, asleep on a 22kt charging torpedo?

Cheers

David.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 09:16 PM   #11
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzee View Post
So who poses the lesser danger to others, the well intentioned crewed-up novice who is aware of his shortcomings; or the confident, highly experienced millionaire thrill seeker, asleep on a 22kt charging torpedo?
A good and very valid point well made.

As always people, David presents the common sense approach and a lot of insight!
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 09:38 PM   #12
Rear Admiral
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Default

Take a look at the Smeetons. Twice dismasted, and rolled, but on their own they managed port both times.
__________________
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 09:53 PM   #13
Admiral
 
Nausikaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
Take a look at the Smeetons. Twice dismasted, and rolled, but on their own they managed port both times.
Sure, but they were an extremely competent sailing pair who, to the best of my knowledge and belief, have consistently shown nothing but good seamanship. Nor did they scream for the cavalry in situations in which others definately would have. They relied upon their own knowledge and ability to get themselves out of a tight corner.

Folks like the Smeetons and Tillman were true adventurers but were not inclined to take uncalculated risks. Even the man who wrote the solo sailor's cruising bible, Joshua Slocum, got himself out of many a fray but in the end he sailed out of our ken; but he too was a professional seaman who knew well the risks he took and did so sans kvetch.

Aye // Stephen
__________________
Yacht NAUSIKAA | Call Sign: 2AJH2




WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME?

www.nausikaa.org.uk

= Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania
Nausikaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 04:31 PM   #14
Rear Admiral
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Default

As sailors, and especially us who single-hand. I thought the idea was to GET OURSELVES out of a fix. Only as a last resort do you reachout for help. I believe the actions of the Smeetons, and those like them should be the normal. We have to be responsible for the choice we have made. That choice being in a small, and fragile craft on a sometimes quite vicious sea.

Some people go to the doctor for a hang nail, and some will cut off thier own arm to save themselves, and then drive themself to the doctor. My point being some will call for help well before any help should be needed. Unfortunately here in America a lot of people expect to be taken care of, and have forgotten how to take care of themselves.
__________________

__________________
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pacific Crossing Of Ken And Lori On S/v Trim redbopeep General Cruising Forum 0 04-16-2010 05:24 AM
Looking For Ken geraldagotts General Message Board 2 01-18-2010 09:53 AM
Ken's Epirb @ 5pm PST Trim50 General Cruising Forum 22 02-01-2007 09:37 AM
Ken Barnes description of situation Trim50 General Cruising Forum 2 01-14-2007 06:40 AM
Ken Barnes - Solo non-stop circumnavigation Trim50 General Cruising Forum 6 11-19-2006 02:35 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0