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Old 04-27-2012, 12:20 AM   #1
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Default Senile from California

I can't even remember if I've done an intro on CL. I'm on CF, and if memory serves, I've tried a few times to sign up here and had a problem with the registration process...... if this is the 2nd intro, who knows?

Name is Bob, grad of CMA, retired Merchant Marine, MM&P. Sailed a Flying Junior in the 60's, a Rhodes 19 later, then the jump to a Cal 40. Sold the Cal in Mexico and entered CMA, then break bulk, container, and drill ships. Looking forward to future cruising on my schedule and choice of destinations rather than the shipping company's direction.

Disregard the top paragraph, after posting this I saw my post count of one, so I be a newbie.

Bob
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:33 PM   #2
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Not much of a welcome. 73 views, not one "Hi".
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:30 PM   #3
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Maybe a picture of my last butt-ugly boat, all 32,000 tons. In heavy weather I could burn 1,000 gallons of diesel per hour just holding my position.


Yours truly


My "office"
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:05 PM   #4
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Default Gooday 'WS7GS

Gooday '8' - sure hope I never run into you after dark. That's some big bump - you've got under your feet. Maybe no one wants to admit that theri 'Senile' or from California, eh ????

I'm an ex-pat Canuck - living in OZ & at the other end of -life's journey - hoping to sell the rural property & go back sailing - but I'll choose the warm sheltered (ha) waters of SE Asia.

Y'all have a great day over ther. ? is - how come it's not fixed to the bottom?? I'm sure we could all learn from your knowledge in controlling that monster.

Ciao, james
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:12 PM   #5
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The sea floor is a mile down. In that picture we are ballasted up for transit to another drilling site. It has (7) 4.6 MW gen-sets and (6) 5,000 hp electric thrusters. Hotel and drilling loads are about 1 MW, fighting heavy weather can consume 30 MW.

Thanks for the welcome, I should have included pictures in my first post. Now I can cruise among the forum's topics and post with something more than just one post to my credit.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:14 AM   #6
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Not much of a welcome. 73 views, not one "Hi".
Holy cow, how did we miss you?

We mods usually try and welcome every newcomer. Sorry to be late to the party.


Please do enjoy the forums, contribute where you can and ask questions along the way. It sound like you've had some fun sailing in your past. Any idea of what the "next sail boat" will be like for you?

Fair winds,
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:04 AM   #7
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Don't know if I'm saying "Hi" to David or Brenda, but Hello. Your correct, my current boat search is down to a short list of 3. Sundeer 60, Catana 41'~43', and if I want a larger cruising kitty and smaller boat, a PDQ 36, all in the age range of 12~20 years old.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:43 AM   #8
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Don't know if I'm saying "Hi" to David or Brenda, but Hello. Your correct, my current boat search is down to a short list of 3. Sundeer 60, Catana 41'~43', and if I want a larger cruising kitty and smaller boat, a PDQ 36, all in the age range of 12~20 years old.
Gooday '7' - James here aka silver raven. I'm the guy that said 'hello'

Could you tell me what a Sundeer 60 is, please ??? I've never heard of such a vessel before. You seem very comfortable with all the complicated mechanics of some of the multihulls these days - where as I am not - rather - I am a sailor of boats - not a motor(s) type person & would not be at all comfortable with much mechanics on board. Maybe what I'm trying not to say is that I'm a simple old man - ha ha . To much truth in that for me to continue to go there. Caio, james
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:57 AM   #9
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Gooday '7' - James here aka silver raven. I'm the guy that said 'hello'

Could you tell me what a Sundeer 60 is, please ??? I've never heard of such a vessel before. You seem very comfortable with all the complicated mechanics of some of the multihulls these days - where as I am not - rather - I am a sailor of boats - not a motor(s) type person & would not be at all comfortable with much mechanics on board. Maybe what I'm trying not to say is that I'm a simple old man - ha ha . To much truth in that for me to continue to go there. Caio, james
James,

The Sundeer 60 & 64 come from the fertile mind of world cruising guru Steve Dashew. Long on waterline, narrow beam, a very fast and capable off shore cruiser. It would pull higher nm daily runs than either of the two cats I'm also considering. Passage speed and well engineered cruising systems are its main claim to fame. Are you familiar with Dashew's books?

A friend, Nick aboard S/V Jedi, which is a Sundeer 64, has some very impressive 24 hour runs. The 64' is out of my price range but the 60' is at the high end, but doable.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:52 AM   #10
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Hi there,

It's Brenda you're talking with (99% of the time here! and when it's David, I usually say something along the lines of "hubby says"...)

Given the choices, I'd be going with the Sundeer 60. I'm bipolar in my boating--either like techy fun stuff which works well (that would be anything Dashew comes up with) OR I like ultra simple traditional ways of doing things (that would be the schooner we own at present). No in-between for me.

How many people will be cruising together? 1, 2, 3? If solo, I wouldn't go with any of your choices, though.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:09 AM   #11
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Hi there,

It's Brenda you're talking with (99% of the time here! and when it's David, I usually say something along the lines of "hubby says"...)

Given the choices, I'd be going with the Sundeer 60. I'm bipolar in my boating--either like techy fun stuff which works well (that would be anything Dashew comes up with) OR I like ultra simple traditional ways of doing things (that would be the schooner we own at present). No in-between for me.

How many people will be cruising together? 1, 2, 3? If solo, I wouldn't go with any of your choices, though.
That is what I like about seasoned cruisers, the advice flows. I'm a single hander with my last boat being a great old Cal 40. I'm older now and like the features of a cat, shallow draft, not as much rolling in an exposed anchorage, and quite the entertaining platform. Those are a lot of pluses for me, but for solo, long, open ocean passages, the Sundeer would be so relaxing, more comfortable at speed, able to cover more nm per day, and most important to me at least, the safety of a mono to de-power in a gust.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:47 AM   #12
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That is what I like about seasoned cruisers, the advice flows. I'm a single hander with my last boat being a great old Cal 40. I'm older now and like the features of a cat, shallow draft, not as much rolling in an exposed anchorage, and quite the entertaining platform. Those are a lot of pluses for me, but for solo, long, open ocean passages, the Sundeer would be so relaxing, more comfortable at speed, able to cover more nm per day, and most important to me at least, the safety of a mono to de-power in a gust.

Gooday 'D-O' You could sure get some differing attitude comments about most of what you've said above. I for 1, would like to dispute some of what you seem to think - is a 'given' for I feel you might not be seeing the broader picture. IMHO - of course. These 'Sundeer 60's are very expensive - to my budget @ $395K USD & up to $995K USD - It would want to be one hell of a yacht for that kind of money. There are some 'grand' yachts 'out-there' for that kind of money - for sure. Greek economy what it is - are giving away some very nice yachts for 'fire-sale' prices & it's going to keep going down & down a long way yet.

I still can't equate the difference between 1/ Sundeer 60 - 2/ Catana 41'/43' - 3/ PDQ 36' ??? I can't get these 3 to line-up as to sailing ability, sea-worthiness, underhanded sailing safety. I am not able to get them in the same book let alone on the same - comparison page. Might you let us know - where you're coming from??? Please !!!

I'm sure Brenda & David as well - would have me 'certified' & feet in concrete - if they knew what I'm buying - to go cruising. It's definitely not your average 'cruising' yacht - but - it's quick enough to get me - a long way out of trouble (or as life deals everyone - a long way into the middle of big trouble)

My thoughts are - if you want to go sailing - then buy a 'sailing boat' - if you want to motor then buy a motor boat - if you want a 'condo' get one that's 10 stories-up so you can watch all the little sail boats doing their sailing thingy. (or a drilling platform, hay?) You can't have both in the same package. Don't believe me - go into 'miltihulls 4 us' & see what Paul & Lesley are trying to do - IT does not work - no matter how hard you try - what you knowledge or how many millions you throw at it.

Keep safe & enjoy - 'Go chasing & live your dream' - Ciao, james
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:18 AM   #13
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Gooday 'D-O' You could sure get some differing attitude comments about most of what you've said above. I for 1, would like to dispute some of what you seem to think - is a 'given' for I feel you might not be seeing the broader picture. IMHO - of course. These 'Sundeer 60's are very expensive - to my budget @ $395K USD & up to $995K USD - It would want to be one hell of a yacht for that kind of money. There are some 'grand' yachts 'out-there' for that kind of money - for sure. Greek economy what it is - are giving away some very nice yachts for 'fire-sale' prices & it's going to keep going down & down a long way yet.

I still can't equate the difference between 1/ Sundeer 60 - 2/ Catana 41'/43' - 3/ PDQ 36' ??? I can't get these 3 to line-up as to sailing ability, sea-worthiness, underhanded sailing safety. I am not able to get them in the same book let alone on the same - comparison page. Might you let us know - where you're coming from??? Please !!!

I'm sure Brenda & David as well - would have me 'certified' & feet in concrete - if they knew what I'm buying - to go cruising. It's definitely not your average 'cruising' yacht - but - it's quick enough to get me - a long way out of trouble (or as life deals everyone - a long way into the middle of big trouble)

My thoughts are - if you want to go sailing - then buy a 'sailing boat' - if you want to motor then buy a motor boat - if you want a 'condo' get one that's 10 stories-up so you can watch all the little sail boats doing their sailing thingy. (or a drilling platform, hay?) You can't have both in the same package. Don't believe me - go into 'miltihulls 4 us' & see what Paul & Lesley are trying to do - IT does not work - no matter how hard you try - what you knowledge or how many millions you throw at it.

Keep safe & enjoy - 'Go chasing & live your dream' - Ciao, james
James,

Agreed, you would not normally have those 3 boats on the same page, so I will explain my madness. Whatever I get I will want to refit for a hybrid diesel/electric drive and redo the galley to all electric. The reasons is I've never experienced the absolute control for maneuvering that I had professionally with electric propulsion. Also, I have designed and built EVs, so am comfortable with motors and controllers. The PDQ 36 would be fine for Mexico and the Caribbean, not the best passage maker, but with the 9.9 hp outboards would be an easy upgrade to electric outboards. The Catana would be faster and a better passage maker than the PDQ, and of course a Sundeer 60 would leave the least in the cruising kitty. Should I get a wild hair and want notoriety for the opposite of Laura Dekker, like a record for the most solo circumnavigations by an old fart, the Sundeer would win my favor hands down.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:27 AM   #14
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That is what I like about seasoned cruisers, the advice flows.

I was just telling you what I would do--not what you should do.

On multi-hulls, I like them for comfort and shallow draft, I'm just much more comfortable dealing with a monohull in general.

You're a guy, you may be quite strong. I'm a gal and though strong for a gal, I'm not all that strong. Sailing gals with any brains think a lot about what they're not strong enough to do in heavy weather so they can have a "work around" in place when needed. Rather than constantly being pressured by the large size, weight, and momentum of everything on a larger vessel, one such work around is to have a boat with manageable sized equipment--that means having a smaller vessel if solo sailing (for me).

Big boat=big stuff everywhere. Our boat has enough big stuff everywhere for me to know that I'd never want to solo sail it even though the sailing part itself wouldn't really be the problem. I would be the problem. I could raise, reef, and douse sails. But if I have to change out the sails--I couldn't do it at sea, The only sail which is small enough for me to be comfortable dealing with is the staysail. I can hardly lift the (smallest) Yankee jib off the deck. Gotta drag the 100% jib anywhere I take it, forget about ever getting the 1o0 lb foresail or 120 lb mainsail bent on by myself at sea. I've watched hubby winch down the mainsail to the second reef while we were exceeding hull speed on a run in big, short, seas and 25-30 knots of wind. I couldn't have done it myself alone. This I know. Similar story with the large diesel engine--everything is bigger, everything takes more strength to deal with if you must work on it. I have a pipe I use as a breaker bar (extend handle) to open and close our 2-1/2" main raw water seacock. Similarly, I have to use that breaker bar for closing the valves on the exhaust lines. Solo sailor = on your own to deal with it, no matter what "it" is. I do love the idea of the Sundeer--a lovely, fast, boat--but not solo. Big is big is...big.

You can go cruising in just about anything you'd like to go cruise in. I really enjoy hearing about what people ARE cruising in. Certain boats will do better in certain conditions for sure. When we were rebuilding our sailboat (a pre-WWII 29Ton schooner), many people were asking "why?" and saying to us "for the money of that rebuild you could get...fill in the blank with each person's favorite cruising boat" ...but we wanted the experience of doing what we're doing--living and sailing aboard a cruising boat built as a cruising boat in the early part of the 20th century. That's one of the fun parts of cruising--seeing people do what they want to do with their own cruising boat. I must admit during a meltdown early in the rebuild we almost scrapped the project and went cruising on our little Rawson 30. That's a boat, fully outfitted for cruising, which doesn't cost as much as the ground tackle and windlass on this boat. You can cruise on anything. It's just a matter of doing it.

Our "top three contenders" for a cruising boat?

A classic sailing yacht--pre WWII, schooner or ketch rigged, and originally built for cruising;
A custom ketch, aluminum hulled and very similar in design and size to the Sundeer you like;
A trailerable Corsair trimaran;

What do they have in common? Nothing. Each fulfilled a particular cruising goal that we had--and still do have. I don't doubt that if we live long enough cruising, we'll end up having all three experiences.

Fair winds,
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #15
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Brenda,

By your boat alone, you would leave quite an impression on fellow cruisers in the anchorage. I'll bet your personality fits your boat, classy and classic. The Sundeer is up there as to displacement, so your right, everything will be large and harder to deal with. The PDQ 36 light displacement is only 8500 lbs and also has a conservative sail area, so rather easy to deal with. The Catana even at 43' is only 15,000 lbs, so also rather light. I was much younger sailing my Cal 40 solo, I believe the two cats should be easier to manage sails during a blow.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:47 PM   #16
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Gooday y'all - 'WL7GS' - Bob, SV Mahdee - Brenda & David. - Bob your abilities with mechanics & electrics are most admirable (non of which I'm comfortable with) so your choices will be very different & so it is allowed to be. As you - that's all of you (not me) get more mature & age does its thing (not me) - then everything gets to be a bigger task (except me - I can't get much more deteriorated) & horizens have to change. Oh & I'm going to hang in here & keep trying - very-trying, he. Comming to terms with those changes - which you will do I'm sure - & that'll give you some of the wisdom that Brenda has/is, with some small thanks to the rock (David) - - from us all.

Yes - you are right - as we have all seen over the years in this 'forum' "Classy & Classic" are all three - Mahdee - David & Brenda. You'll learn much from all the posts comming from that direction. I personally - say - Thank You.

Good luck with you eventual choice. Just before you put 'your final money down' - as the song goes - reread Brenda's wise observations - at least mentally - & I'm sure that will assist you in making a wiser decission.

Brenda - & you also David - thanks so much for making all our lives -wiser - happier - better balanced & much fuller. The wisdom of our observations is 'SUPA'.

If I ever get back to SF - I'll 'neek-aboard' - hide right next to the birds, cuddle the cat & become a stow-away for a passage or 6. What a magnificent yacht - if ever there was one. WOW.

Oh so very different to what I'm trying to purchase, which is at the other end of the universe. What we all have in common is; our love for the sea, sailing & our fellow people, respect for their values & this wonderful world we live in/on.

Grand sailing - y'all. Caio, james aka 'jj-geri-hat-trick' (so nic-named by Bob & the late Richard)
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:44 AM   #17
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If I ever get back to SF - I'll 'neek-aboard' - hide right next to the birds, cuddle the cat & become a stow-away for a passage or 6.
You're so nice when you write about us, James. Should you ever venture our way, we'd be happy to have you aboard. David warns that I (Brenda) am quite the task master of unsuspecting crew--if you look even the tiniest bit like you've got nothing to do, I'll put a project in your hands.

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Oh so very different to what I'm trying to purchase, which is at the other end of the universe.
You must tell us more about what you're trying to purchase. Make another thread--or something--and give us the fun of talking all about it! And, how we love to opine

Fair winds
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:31 AM   #18
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You're so nice when you write about us, James. Should you ever venture our way, we'd be happy to have you aboard. David warns that I (Brenda) am quite the task master of unsuspecting crew--if you look even the tiniest bit like you've got nothing to do, I'll put a project in your hands.



You must tell us more about what you're trying to purchase. Make another thread--or something--and give us the fun of talking all about it! And, how we love to opine

Fair winds
Don't need another thread on my account, I have zero problem with anyone hyjacking a thread I started, in fact to keep traction I'll encourage hyjacking.

James, thanks for the heads up on David & Brenda. As the new guy on the block, I don't know who's who, or who are just fender kickers. I don't have a long history on CF, with only 1700 posts, but long enough to know the serious cruisers and delivery skippers from the masses of folks on that forum. In fact, now that I think about it, I was a member there for over a year before I "came out of the closet" and mentioned that I had an Unlimited Tonnage License and a CMA grad. That was prompted by a 200 ton captain sharing pictures of his lovely and shapely passengers for a bay cruise. In response to all the guys ooohing and aaawing over those pictures, I posted pictures of my "crew" of drillers, roughnecks, and roustabouts. Now the ladies were cheering for my studly guys and the next thing I know folks were asking about tonnage, propulsion, station keeping abilities, etc, and somehow I became popular among the cruisers there that were earning a living from the sea.

Here is the picture of the assistant driller the girls seemed to think was HOT.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:25 AM   #19
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Hi, sorry I missed your earlier posts, I must have been dozing.

I agree that a fast(er) monohull cruiser is better than a slow, can't get out of its own way cruiser, but as much as I admire Dashew's concepts and his Sundeers, I can't imagine spending that much money on that big a boat.

When we first got our SV Watermelon (Jeanneau Sun Fizz, 38.5 feet) I was intimidated by its size (!!). I would dig in my heels and refuse to go into a marina. Well, I got over it pretty quickly, but I still have an aversion to big boats. They are more work to clean and maintain, they're more work to sail.

Everything is bigger, as Brenda says, and bigger means more expensive. When one needs to rely upon gear to make things more manageable (electric winches, for example), I again balk. What happens when something goes wrong? How do you get the sail up? (or down?) without a power assist.

It seems to me that a monhull for a singlehander is such a better idea. More than once I laid the 'Melon on her side, sail in the water, and up she came quick as can be, and we were on our way again with only my pride bruised. Make the same mistake in judgment in a multihull and either the hull is upside down or the mast is gone.

Electric. A concept that husband Peter and I have toyed with for several years, but we've come to the conclusion that the technology is not yet up to snuff for small boats. Peter spent his active duty in the US Coast Guard on an ice breaker in the Arctic. Ice breakers had diesel generators (or nuclear, as in the case of the Russian ships) to run electric engines, but the scale of everything is massive, and weight is a good thing on an ice breaker, not such a good thing on a small sailboat. I haven't heard much encouraging news about the Lagoon electric engines lately, they seem to have encountered a number of problems. Still, I'd like to see this concept succeed.

We look forward to hearing more from you,.

J
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:06 PM   #20
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JeanneP,

It seems masterful sailors think alike. A Jeanneau Gin Fizz @ 38' and 30+ years old is what Laura Dekker is currently sailing. And that wasn't her first choice, as she had a small late model Hurley 800 that she loved and was dialed into, having taken it out in heavy weather constantly to see what it could do. The Dutch government stipulated a larger boat as one of the conditions of letting her start her solo circumnavigation.

I have to admit (and cater to) certain character flaws in myself, and that is the need for speed in flying, automotive, and boating. At the same time, when venturing into something new to me, these forums are a great place to learn from folks like yourself that "have been there, done that". Even though my thesis at California Maritime Academy was on minimum wetted surface vessels (i.e., fast ferries), my own personal experience is very limited to sailing a F28 tri at Lake Tahoe and San Diego. My old Cal 40 I singled handed from Long Beach to Muluge, and for the 1st 1,000+ nm was a downwind sail, very fast. This boat was a huge step up for me, as my previous sailing started in the 60's on a Flying Junior and 70's on a Rhoades 19. Have you ever experienced the thrill of thinking outside the box, and having made a major decision that you had tons of trepidation going in, to find out you couldn't have made a better choice? That was my feeling after a couple of short trips to Catalina Island, then cruising systems purchases (water maker, auto pilot, wind vane, inverter, refrigeration, Loran C, etc) that matched the $16K purchase (a long time ago), and now I'm making my very first solo offshore passage. I had to pinch myself, is this real, am I the owner of such a fast and capable boat? I'm sure a lot of you have experienced this, and with my next boat selection I want to experience this all over again.

I tend to think Naval designers would love to exercise the cutting edge that they learned in school, but to keep food on the table have to stay within the narrow confines of what a very conservative market demands in their boats. A-Frame masts come to mind, why don't I see more employed?
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