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Old 10-01-2015, 12:18 PM   #41
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Which boat to fit them to ??
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:07 PM   #42
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The good thing about TackTick is that you can unclip them and shift them from one yacht to another. :-)
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:53 AM   #43
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Auzzee, I did the proper measurements today for the sails using my new 30 metre tape measure.

I=7.95
J=3.4
P=6.9 to 7.1 (adjustable slider)
E=3.58 to 3.9 (adjustable slider)
Max haul for furler is 7.75 metres.

Sent all that data to Far East Sails for a quote, let's see what happens. I'm guessing it will be cheaper and less hassle to buy new rather than buying a used sail then having it modifiied, which I'd need to do since nothing I've seen on six different sites seems to fit this yacht.
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Old 10-02-2015, 03:54 AM   #44
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OMFG here we go again. 2004 Hartley Sparkle Trimaran, new genoa on furler. EPIRB, VHF, depth sounder, autopilot. No reserve, and it's in Brisbane just 15nm from here.

I want. I want bad.
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:32 PM   #45
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,
Maaaate....A 30' tri is positively tiny below decks. There are some (not unlike the 30' Piver, which I refitted back in the days before I grew a brain) which have similar sailing characteristics to a block of flats.

I'm not trying to influence you.....
Not in even the tiniest little bit......But:
If you buy a Sparkle (Mr Sheen's bit on the side),
I will need to alter my generally high opinion
of sailors from the Land of The Long White Cloud.
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Old 10-03-2015, 01:03 AM   #46
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The argument for the defence:

Auzzee, ma-a-ate ... before you disown me, think about this logically. At 62yo I'm not getting any younger, and I want to go sailing right now. Not next year, now.

As a coastal cruising yacht for a single guy the Sparkle would be ideal, especially in the tropics. I'm pretty sure it would be as roomy as the Tasman I'm currently living in, after all it has 6'3" headroom and is 18" longer. It also never had an inboard engine so there's no dead space.

One thing I really didn't like on the way to NZ with Del was the heeling. I found it extremely tiring to live at a 30 degree angle, trying to avoid crashing into furniture. I was never an althletic guy, and I'm sure that isn't about to improve at any stage before my metabolic processes become a matter of interest only to historians.

Then there's the "chick magnet factor". Let's face it, if any girl thinks about lounging around on a yacht in the tropics, they're not thinking of a concrete monomaran now, are they. Just not romantic at all. My chances are slim already without making them vanishingly small.

A Hartley Sparkle was the first multihull to circumnavigate Australia, and this very one for sale was built in Port Hedland so has made it halfway already. My final plea is that they have as rich and interesting a history as any other of Mr Hartley's kiwi concoctions. In proof I present the story of the good ship Tolu Vaa.

http://www.toluvaa.eu.pn/

If there is any misgiving at all, it is that the tri is made from plywood, a material that I have begun to hate with a passion after the rot found in Keppelena. However since she was built in 2004 such problems should never occur as long as quality paint is applied and kept in good condition.

Unlike ferro yachts, multihulls - yes, even plywood homemade jobs - retain a resale value when in good condition. I'm sure that once I get to the stage of wanting to leap off into Asia an upgrade will be necessary, but in the vein of the "get a 30'er and go now" philosophy it's a good stopgap for the next few years.

The shallow draft allows them to be antifouled or repaired on a beach. They'll stay afloat with a hole in any one of the three hulls. What's not to like?
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:06 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
Auzzee, I did the proper measurements today for the sails using my new 30 metre tape measure.

I=7.95
J=3.4
P=6.9 to 7.1 (adjustable slider)
E=3.58 to 3.9 (adjustable slider)
Max haul for furler is 7.75 metres.

Sent all that data to Far East Sails for a quote, let's see what happens. I'm guessing it will be cheaper and less hassle to buy new rather than buying a used sail then having it modifiied, which I'd need to do since nothing I've seen on six different sites seems to fit this yacht.
I was right. They can do a brand new furling genoa (7.2 luff, 3.85 foot, 7.0 leech) with UV strip and sail bag in 7.18oz cruise material for US$740 delivered. That's about what a secondhand sail would have cost me from the US when I take shipping into account.

Hmmm. Now I have to consider my options.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:38 PM   #48
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Was actually inspired to do some work on Shenoa today. Those with long memories will recall that the backstay terminates at the top of the fibreglass roof, which is a very wobbly arrangement. So I cut a 1" hole in its centre with a hole saw, removed the backstay from its anchorage and fed it through, then extended it temporarily with a length of chain to a loop on the concrete deck just behind the tiller which it seems was the original - and correct - anchoring point.

Now looking at mast climbing equipment so I can go aloft and fix that damned furler, but will probably simply buy a pair of tree climber's ascenders, a footstrap and a bosun's chair which seems to be as good an option as any. Unless I can talk Pete Winning into visiting me up here in Qld of course. :-)
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:49 PM   #49
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While inspecting the rigging today an odd thought occurred to me about the furler. You see, I have two forestays; an outer one that goes to the end of the 3' long bowsprit on which the furler is fitted, and an inner one which also goes to the masthead but - due to lack of any halyards associated - apparently simply serves as a secondary forestay rather than something on which a sail would be hung. Note that it does go all the way up, it isn't a baby stay.

Now the odd thought was this: why the hell didn't they fit the furler to the inner forestay? That would avoid all the trouble of getting the genoa around the inner one when tacking, wouldn't it? Have I just discovered yet another act of idiocy committed by a previous owner? Why ask rhetorical questions?
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Old 10-03-2015, 01:57 PM   #50
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Which fore-stay is original? I wonder if the sprit is an add-on. The original stay should terminate on the mast cap, in its centre. The secondary fitment is probably off to the side, or separately attached to a tang just below the mast head.

Meanwhile:
Tolu vaa has an interesting history. Of course you should do whatever suits your budget and your chronology when it comes to setting off. I think everyone in the CL community is barracking for you and hope you get to sail your own boat across the horizon as soon as it is possible. And you can only sail one boat at a time.

SE Asia is a good destination, and is probably more easily do-able in a well found tri, than in a onemaran with rigging and engine concerns.

And, 62? Gad, you young blokes. Back when I was just 62..........................
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:34 PM   #51
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Outer goes to the cap, inner goes to a tang below the masthead. The bow termination point for the inner is part of the steel casting that encloses the sprit and contains the bow rollers. The sprit has been with the yacht since new unless this casting was also added.

However the aluminium mast isn't original, so whoever replaced it evidently caused this cockup. I think it happened about 8 years ago when they renewed the cabin, quite a lot of money was w̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ spent on the yacht at that time.

And yes, Asia is an easy destination. After all, if the legendary Captain Rocket can do it ...

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Old 10-04-2015, 12:25 AM   #52
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Depends if the wind is blowing that way at the time. I miss Oz, and I miss Darwin. But I'm having a blast alternating motorcycling and sailing in wonderful places. Currently having a ball in southern Florida and the Caribbean.

And of course I have met a gorgeous woman.......

But that's another story.
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Old 10-04-2015, 12:55 AM   #53
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But that is the story, n'est ce pas?

I think you'll find that you have to be in Australia to make a claim, and it's still 65 for someone born in 1950 so you'll need to do something soon. You can begin the process within 13 weeks of your birthday, which means any time now. Hop to it, free money.

Of course, being independently wealthy you probably won't qualify under the income and assets test. :-)

I was so impressed with the price Far East gave me for the genoa that I asked for a quote on a mainsail and boom bag (lazy jack style). Prices were equally as good, being US$640 and US$480 respectively. Pity about the exchange rate.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:07 AM   #54
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Kindle readers have been around for donkey's ages but I never got the point of them. Initially you have to pay for them and I rarely pay for software, preferring to write my own for most applications. But I found something I wanted to read recently so decided to do it. I was surprised to find the Amazon reader is now free as well, as it should have been in the first place.

The book I'm reading is "How to Inexpensively and Safely Buy, Outfit and Sail a Small Vessel Around the World" by Cap'n Fatty Goodlander. I was truly expecting it to be all wind like the woeful self-help books from the likes of Tony Robbins and Robert Kurosawa and, in truth, he makes the same error of being too subjective and emotional, but he does it in such an entertaining way that it's hardly noticeable.

The book is a great read and I can recommend it. Lots of interesting anecdotes, some fairly useful tips for survival on the cheap and a whole bunch of good ol' gospel-style inspiration. $7.28 at Amazon.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:27 AM   #55
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Sorry, that should have said "Robert Kiyosaki". Kurosawa was, of course, a Japanese film maker.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:38 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
While inspecting the rigging today an odd thought occurred to me about the furler. You see, I have two forestays; an outer one that goes to the end of the 3' long bowsprit on which the furler is fitted, and an inner one which also goes to the masthead but - due to lack of any halyards associated - apparently simply serves as a secondary forestay rather than something on which a sail would be hung. Note that it does go all the way up, it isn't a baby stay.
Congratulations, you have a slutter also occasionally known as a Solent rig. Not a commonly seen rig these days although I did see 2 in Samoa. They have the advantage in that the inner staysail is usually large enough to be used by itself in moderate conditions, without needing the bigger genoa at all.

You're just missing a halyard somewhere. The inner stay should have a halyard and an associated set of hank-on sails.

Quote:
Now the odd thought was this: why the hell didn't they fit the furler to the inner forestay? That would avoid all the trouble of getting the genoa around the inner one when tacking, wouldn't it? Have I just discovered yet another act of idiocy committed by a previous owner? Why ask rhetorical questions?
The main reason that a furler is not usually fitted to the inner of the two forestays on a slutter rig is because the staysail is too large to be used as a storm sail. On a conventional cutter rig (like mine), I can unfurl a small amount of staysail and use that as my storm jib. The staysail is small enough and heavy enough to use in that fashion. On a slutter rig it usually means that the staysail has to come down and be replaced with a conventional hank-on storm jib in gale force conditions. It is possible to fit one of course, but it's not commonly done.

On a slutter rig you wouldn't use both foresails unless you had the sort of mast set up that allows you to pole both out when you're on a dead run, which is quite efficient. With my rig I can pole both headies out but because the staysail is so much smaller than the genoa I have to furl up quite a bit of the genoa to get any balance, and that costs me sail area. In your case you could pole both out with no loss of sail area. You'd need bigger poles of course (every sailor wants a bigger pole to play with).

Upwind on a slutter rig you can't use the inner staysail as a pointing sail (as on a cutter), because it just interferes with the genoa and you end up with the two of them luffing together at the masthead. Not to mention an ungodly mess of tangled halyards at the top. So on a cutter rig you might find the staysail on a furler because it can be used when reaching with an asymmetric spinnaker or when pointing high in light to moderate winds (main, genoa and staysail) but on a slutter those aren't valid sailing options. If you're close hauled or reaching then you either have the staysail or the genoa but never both.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:14 AM   #57
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So to get the best out of a slutter you need big poles. You don't say. :-)

I do have a 90% hanked storm jib which - if I understand correctly - would go on this inner stay when the going gets rough, but to use it I'd have to install another halyard.

Alternatively I could install, say, a 125% genoa on a second furler which would allow me to wing-and-wing with poles but would then make the hanked sail redundant.

Cool, thanks for the info. I do like all these options.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:33 AM   #58
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Just found the total solution to this conundrum of how to tack with the extra stay thanks to sailmagazine.com:

"The stay can be released and pulled aft from the primary headsail when not needed."

Convert Your Sloop to a Double-Headsail Rig - Sail Magazine
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:08 AM   #59
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Quote:
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"The stay can be released and pulled aft from the primary headsail when not needed."
Some yachts (e.g. C&Cs, built in the Great Lakes region somewhere) have the sort of rig where the tack of the inner stay can be pulled aft on a track that leads back to the mast base, but it's not common. Mostly they are fixed in place to the deck. If you have such a track then good for you but although I've seen 1 or 2 in place I have never seen one actively used.

Your other alternatives are:

1. Put a furler on the inner stay, and upgrade from your 95% jib to a 125% or so genoa, as you suggest. The furled staysail then acts as baggywrinkle on the inner stay to help the genoa tack through the slot.

2. Lead the sheet lines for the genoa around the outside of the forestay rather than inside it, effectively converting your genoa into a downwind sail where you would gybe it like an asymmetric spinnaker rather than tack it. This makes more sense than you might think on a slutter rig, because in most cases upwind you would be using your staysail jib rather than your genoa as your upwind jib. Tacking the jib is easy because there is no stay between it and the mast, and a 95% jib on the inner stay of a slutter is good enough to give you acceptable upwind performance.

3. Both, which also makes more sense than is obvious at first. Going upwind you would furl the outer genoa and use the inner genoa at 125% for reasonably good upwind performance. Downwind you furl the inner genoa and unfurl your bigger genoa and you can gybe the outer genoa around the outside as required.

You want a bigger sail downwind anyway than you do upwind. I almost never sail Chiara Stella to windward with anything more than 80% of the genoa out, because with the added apparent wind effect it's just too much. Downwind I fly the full genoa all day and only partially furl it at night.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:12 AM   #60
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4. Move your furler and genoa from the outer stay to the inner stay, that requires having your genoa cut down a bit by a sail loft. Then get a spinnaker furler for your outer stay and put a lightweight cruising chute (gennaker) on it for some serious downwind fun. A lot of cats are rigged like that.
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