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Old 10-05-2015, 11:12 AM   #61
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Learn something new everyday. Thanks Del.
Best wishes.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:07 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by delatbabel View Post
Some yachts (e.g. C&Cs, built in the Great Lakes region somewhere) have the sort of rig where the tack of the inner stay can be pulled aft on a track that leads back to the mast base, but it's not common. Mostly they are fixed in place to the deck. If you have such a track then good for you but although I've seen 1 or 2 in place I have never seen one actively used.
As they say in the referenced article, a quick release clamp on the inner stay allows it to be brought back to the mast and secured. Seems easy and sensible to me. At present there's a turnbuckle at the tack but that's easily replaced.

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Your other alternatives are:

1. Put a furler on the inner stay, and upgrade from your 95% jib to a 125% or so genoa, as you suggest. The furled staysail then acts as baggywrinkle on the inner stay to help the genoa tack through the slot.
Yep.

Quote:
2. Lead the sheet lines for the genoa around the outside of the forestay rather than inside it, effectively converting your genoa into a downwind sail where you would gybe it like an asymmetric spinnaker rather than tack it. This makes more sense than you might think on a slutter rig, because in most cases upwind you would be using your staysail jib rather than your genoa as your upwind jib. Tacking the jib is easy because there is no stay between it and the mast, and a 95% jib on the inner stay of a slutter is good enough to give you acceptable upwind performance.
Since I know nothing about gybing asymmetrical spinnakers this went a bit over my head. Do you mean letting it float forward of the forestay? Sounds like a tricky maneuver.

Quote:
3. Both, which also makes more sense than is obvious at first. Going upwind you would furl the outer genoa and use the inner genoa at 125% for reasonably good upwind performance. Downwind you furl the inner genoa and unfurl your bigger genoa and you can gybe the outer genoa around the outside as required.
And for higher winds, simply use the inner and furl it halfway. Hmmm ... righto. Sounds good to me. Must check eBay for used furlers now. :-)

Quote:
You want a bigger sail downwind anyway than you do upwind. I almost never sail Chiara Stella to windward with anything more than 80% of the genoa out, because with the added apparent wind effect it's just too much. Downwind I fly the full genoa all day and only partially furl it at night.
Yeah, I remember some of those days when we just scooted along on a handkerchief of sail and still hit 10-11kts and exceeded hull speed. Damn that yacht can get up and run. I'm starting to get inspired again, it has been a long blue patch but I just realized tonight I could actually sail this thing a bit with only the 90% hanked jib on the inner forestay, now that the backstay has been sorted. It might be wise to have the old main repaired first though, for a decent run at it.

---------------

On another note, I just discovered a nicety with my new Kindle reader. I went online with my second laptop, logged in to Amazon and downloaded the reader to that one. Suddenly all the books I'd downloaded showed up as available. Cool, I only have to buy them once.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:15 PM   #63
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4. Move your furler and genoa from the outer stay to the inner stay, that requires having your genoa cut down a bit by a sail loft. Then get a spinnaker furler for your outer stay and put a lightweight cruising chute (gennaker) on it for some serious downwind fun. A lot of cats are rigged like that.
I'll leave that idea for when I know how to sail. :-)

As a singlehander, spinnakers and gennakers still freak me out.



"Did you ever notice that single-handers never talk about what they’re doing with their other hand?" - Cap'n Fatty Goodlander
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Old 10-06-2015, 03:24 AM   #64
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,
Maaaate....A 30' tri is positively tiny below decks. There are some (not unlike the 30' Piver, which I refitted back in the days before I grew a brain) which have similar sailing characteristics to a block of flats.

I'm not trying to influence you.....
Not in even the tiniest little bit......But:
If you buy a Sparkle (Mr Sheen's bit on the side),
I will need to alter my generally high opinion
of sailors from the Land of The Long White Cloud.
What would you say to a Nimble with a 25hp engine, good paint, main and two jibs, sink, stove, toilet, GPS and depth sounder at $2,000 ??

I'm a bit torn now, I'm leading the bidding on the Sparkle and can't go see the Piver until it finishes.

BTW the Nimble has those side pods with beds in them, plenty of room in there. You must really like to spread out.
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Old 10-06-2015, 11:40 AM   #65
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Haiqu,

As a multihull fan I can see the attractions of the Tri but the important thing is to just get out on anything and sail. The more you sail the more you will work out what the right boat is for you and what you want from it. If Keppelena has a working engine, bung the sails on and go for a sail
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:04 PM   #66
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Since I know nothing about gybing asymmetrical spinnakers this went a bit over my head. Do you mean letting it float forward of the forestay? Sounds like a tricky maneuver.
Yes, exactly. It's easier than it sounds because with the wind behind you once you ease the sheets the sail drifts forwards. The difference between tacking and gybing is that as your bow comes through the wind in a tack, your sails all want to float aft. In a gybe, your stern comes through the wind and your sails want to float forwards. So you just ease the working sheet as you start to gybe, let the sail float forwards and flap around, and as you come up on the other side just haul on the lazy sheet and it will all flop into place.

Having the sheets lead forward from the clew of the sail makes gybing easier than leading them aft because if you have them lead aft the sail tries to turn itself inside out as you gybe.

The downside of course is that you need longer sheets, but if you're only using the sail downwind then there will be less stress on those sheets and you can get away with lighter rope. If you remember my spinnaker sheets they are really long but quite thin.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #67
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Haiqu,

As a multihull fan I can see the attractions of the Tri but the important thing is to just get out on anything and sail. The more you sail the more you will work out what the right boat is for you and what you want from it. If Keppelena has a working engine, bung the sails on and go for a sail
Alas, she doesn't. The old Perkins 4-108 has a hole the size of a melon in the side of the block and I haven't been able to get it removed. That saga is well documented elsewhere on this site.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:26 PM   #68
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Del: Got it now, many thanks. Thus the importance of only using the genoa furthest forward when running downwind. Crystal clear.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:54 AM   #69
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For the past 12 months I've been monitoring the new and secondhand prices for TackTick instruments on a regular basis. Some items seem to be available quite cheaply, not so others.

I did a comprehensive search of resellers today and discovered that an Australian company called C. H. Smith has by far the best prices on the bits I wanted, so I went ahead and bought them. In fact they were so cheap I thought they were quoting in US dollars on the website.

T121 hull transmitter, T120 wind transmitter, T909 fluxgate compass and T910 hull triducer are all coming soon. I now have the complete set!
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:42 AM   #70
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Seller of the Hartley Sparkle cancelled the ad today on eBay. I had a feeling he'd do that, it didn't seem genuine at all. Particularly when he had all sorts of "escape clauses" there, such as "may cancel at any time if sold beforehand" and a separate ad on Gumtree.

Well, now if only I could get a response from the guy who owns that Piver ...
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Old 10-09-2015, 05:12 AM   #71
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T121 hull transmitter, T120 wind transmitter, T909 fluxgate compass and T910 hull triducer are all coming soon. I now have the complete set!
What did you pay for the T120? Did it come second hand or new? I was looking at the new prices for the T120 on their web site but they look only just a bit less than the regular prices. I figure that if someone has a spare T120 for sale I'd pick one up as mine is starting to die a bit.
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Old 10-09-2015, 05:55 AM   #72
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What did you pay for the T120? Did it come second hand or new? I was looking at the new prices for the T120 on their web site but they look only just a bit less than the regular prices. I figure that if someone has a spare T120 for sale I'd pick one up as mine is starting to die a bit.
That was AU$680.00+GST or AU$748.00 total, and it's new.

Tacktick T120 Wireless Wind Transmitter

Best price I've seen previously was US$661.19 at defender.com (AU$907.79) so it's quite a bit cheaper.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp...8831&id=606740

At West Marine they're US$799.99
At Amazon they're US$717.41

Whitworths in Australia don't stock them at all, and you hardly ever see them on eBay unless included in a complete wind kit with the display.

If you're replacing it I'd love to play with the old one.
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Old 10-09-2015, 06:20 AM   #73
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Also worth mentioning is that the MN30 "entry level" system with hardwired displays has been discontinued.
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:52 PM   #74
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Here's a couple of reputable second hand chandlery stores which both ship internationally:
Yacht Grot: Perth Boat Hardware and Accessories Retailer (This is in Perth Western Australia)
http://sailorman.com/ (This in Fort Lauderdale)

Both have an astounding range. In Sailorman, I bought an unused Balmar 200amp marine alternator and saved almost $1000.
Yacht Grot sold me a new display for my ageing Furuno radar. It was used, but in exceptional condition and saved me from buying a new unit. Yot Grot has been my goto place for all manner of chandlery items and over the last three decades has saved me a huge amount of money.

Here is Florida, Sailorman is equally as good.

Hope it helps.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:15 PM   #75
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That's exactly the sort of information I thrive on. Believe me, to pay retail for any piece of electronics makes me cringe after working on the stuff all my life. I'd rather design something from scratch than give them the satisfaction.

Unfortunately the links were useless. YotGrot had no products listed online while with Sailorman, all they had under electronics was a used compass. I know shops like these, you have to deal with them personally. Too hard.
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Old 10-10-2015, 12:08 AM   #76
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Try making contact by email. They don't list consignment goods. They really have so much at both businesses. Best of luck.
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Old 10-10-2015, 01:02 PM   #77
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Bloody eBay sellers. I complained to the guy who closed the Hartley Sparkle auction, pointing out the real value at about $6500 which got quite an interesting response. He says it's "professionally built" and that the cheapest trimaran he's seen for sale was $20,000

Yeah, right. I've seen an ad for a Sparkle in Darwin at that price and it hasn't sold yet either. As far as professional goes, how could a 50yo plywood design built in Port Hedland qualify? *scoff* The interior is painted in plain enamel, hardly the thing you'd do to a yacht if it was epoxied.

He's delusional.

Got more data on the Piver too. Engine is stuffed, seems it has a hatch cover missing (which will mean rotting in the plywood at that point) and the boom and sheet winches are nowhere to be found. Oh yeah, and the photos were taken three years ago at the last haulout.

Bzzzzt. I've gone off multihulls.
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:10 PM   #78
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Alley-loo-lee-yah!
Walk into the light brother!

There is a place for well made tris.
There is a better argument for well made cats.
And for those who love them, there is no better.

If I was to spend my life sailing around coastlines or in the Bahamas, I would opt for a cat.
But, the onemaran, in my opinion, is still 'de-bomb'
for the places I wish to visit.

Of course there is a good argument for all craft. One vs two vs three hulls. Steel vs glass vs aluminium vs concrete vs timber. Sloop vs ketch vs any other silly bloody set up that the hippies can imagine.

But, naturally, people of good sense will always choose a steel monohull with a sloop rig and full keel.
There is nothing else.
Truly.
Honestly.
Amen.


And....Don't get me talking about motorcycles. This is my current ride. It's an amphibious Kawasaki in southern Florida...Complete with sea bird. No, Rob, it's not an albatros.....
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Old 10-10-2015, 06:32 PM   #79
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If I were to buy another bike it would have to be a BMW R100.

A friend of mine used to have three small model motorcycles attached to the wall in his loungeroom in place of the china ducks. Not one of them was a Kwaka.
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Old 10-11-2015, 09:08 AM   #80
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Decided to get a requote on the genoa. After Del's advice earlier it seems prudent to get a 125% genoa first, which I can fit to the existing furler until such time as I haul out and install another one the inner stay. That gives me the option of choosing either a 150% or a gennaker on the outer stay, I'm still considering that idea.

The Ronstan continuous line furlers look pretty adequate for the job and if I go with the gennaker it could be completely removable. The only reservation I have is the weight of the yacht, I dare say a Code 0 would be a bit light for an 8 ton hull.
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