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Old 10-05-2015, 09:14 AM   #57
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So to get the best out of a slutter you need big poles. You don't say. :-)

I do have a 90% hanked storm jib which - if I understand correctly - would go on this inner stay when the going gets rough, but to use it I'd have to install another halyard.

Alternatively I could install, say, a 125% genoa on a second furler which would allow me to wing-and-wing with poles but would then make the hanked sail redundant.

Cool, thanks for the info. I do like all these options.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:33 AM   #58
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Just found the total solution to this conundrum of how to tack with the extra stay thanks to sailmagazine.com:

"The stay can be released and pulled aft from the primary headsail when not needed."

Convert Your Sloop to a Double-Headsail Rig - Sail Magazine
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:08 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
"The stay can be released and pulled aft from the primary headsail when not needed."
Some yachts (e.g. C&Cs, built in the Great Lakes region somewhere) have the sort of rig where the tack of the inner stay can be pulled aft on a track that leads back to the mast base, but it's not common. Mostly they are fixed in place to the deck. If you have such a track then good for you but although I've seen 1 or 2 in place I have never seen one actively used.

Your other alternatives are:

1. Put a furler on the inner stay, and upgrade from your 95% jib to a 125% or so genoa, as you suggest. The furled staysail then acts as baggywrinkle on the inner stay to help the genoa tack through the slot.

2. Lead the sheet lines for the genoa around the outside of the forestay rather than inside it, effectively converting your genoa into a downwind sail where you would gybe it like an asymmetric spinnaker rather than tack it. This makes more sense than you might think on a slutter rig, because in most cases upwind you would be using your staysail jib rather than your genoa as your upwind jib. Tacking the jib is easy because there is no stay between it and the mast, and a 95% jib on the inner stay of a slutter is good enough to give you acceptable upwind performance.

3. Both, which also makes more sense than is obvious at first. Going upwind you would furl the outer genoa and use the inner genoa at 125% for reasonably good upwind performance. Downwind you furl the inner genoa and unfurl your bigger genoa and you can gybe the outer genoa around the outside as required.

You want a bigger sail downwind anyway than you do upwind. I almost never sail Chiara Stella to windward with anything more than 80% of the genoa out, because with the added apparent wind effect it's just too much. Downwind I fly the full genoa all day and only partially furl it at night.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:12 AM   #60
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4. Move your furler and genoa from the outer stay to the inner stay, that requires having your genoa cut down a bit by a sail loft. Then get a spinnaker furler for your outer stay and put a lightweight cruising chute (gennaker) on it for some serious downwind fun. A lot of cats are rigged like that.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:12 AM   #61
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Learn something new everyday. Thanks Del.
Best wishes.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:07 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delatbabel View Post
Some yachts (e.g. C&Cs, built in the Great Lakes region somewhere) have the sort of rig where the tack of the inner stay can be pulled aft on a track that leads back to the mast base, but it's not common. Mostly they are fixed in place to the deck. If you have such a track then good for you but although I've seen 1 or 2 in place I have never seen one actively used.
As they say in the referenced article, a quick release clamp on the inner stay allows it to be brought back to the mast and secured. Seems easy and sensible to me. At present there's a turnbuckle at the tack but that's easily replaced.

Quote:
Your other alternatives are:

1. Put a furler on the inner stay, and upgrade from your 95% jib to a 125% or so genoa, as you suggest. The furled staysail then acts as baggywrinkle on the inner stay to help the genoa tack through the slot.
Yep.

Quote:
2. Lead the sheet lines for the genoa around the outside of the forestay rather than inside it, effectively converting your genoa into a downwind sail where you would gybe it like an asymmetric spinnaker rather than tack it. This makes more sense than you might think on a slutter rig, because in most cases upwind you would be using your staysail jib rather than your genoa as your upwind jib. Tacking the jib is easy because there is no stay between it and the mast, and a 95% jib on the inner stay of a slutter is good enough to give you acceptable upwind performance.
Since I know nothing about gybing asymmetrical spinnakers this went a bit over my head. Do you mean letting it float forward of the forestay? Sounds like a tricky maneuver.

Quote:
3. Both, which also makes more sense than is obvious at first. Going upwind you would furl the outer genoa and use the inner genoa at 125% for reasonably good upwind performance. Downwind you furl the inner genoa and unfurl your bigger genoa and you can gybe the outer genoa around the outside as required.
And for higher winds, simply use the inner and furl it halfway. Hmmm ... righto. Sounds good to me. Must check eBay for used furlers now. :-)

Quote:
You want a bigger sail downwind anyway than you do upwind. I almost never sail Chiara Stella to windward with anything more than 80% of the genoa out, because with the added apparent wind effect it's just too much. Downwind I fly the full genoa all day and only partially furl it at night.
Yeah, I remember some of those days when we just scooted along on a handkerchief of sail and still hit 10-11kts and exceeded hull speed. Damn that yacht can get up and run. I'm starting to get inspired again, it has been a long blue patch but I just realized tonight I could actually sail this thing a bit with only the 90% hanked jib on the inner forestay, now that the backstay has been sorted. It might be wise to have the old main repaired first though, for a decent run at it.

---------------

On another note, I just discovered a nicety with my new Kindle reader. I went online with my second laptop, logged in to Amazon and downloaded the reader to that one. Suddenly all the books I'd downloaded showed up as available. Cool, I only have to buy them once.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:15 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delatbabel View Post
4. Move your furler and genoa from the outer stay to the inner stay, that requires having your genoa cut down a bit by a sail loft. Then get a spinnaker furler for your outer stay and put a lightweight cruising chute (gennaker) on it for some serious downwind fun. A lot of cats are rigged like that.
I'll leave that idea for when I know how to sail. :-)

As a singlehander, spinnakers and gennakers still freak me out.



"Did you ever notice that single-handers never talk about what they’re doing with their other hand?" - Cap'n Fatty Goodlander
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Old 10-06-2015, 03:24 AM   #64
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Quote:
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,
Maaaate....A 30' tri is positively tiny below decks. There are some (not unlike the 30' Piver, which I refitted back in the days before I grew a brain) which have similar sailing characteristics to a block of flats.

I'm not trying to influence you.....
Not in even the tiniest little bit......But:
If you buy a Sparkle (Mr Sheen's bit on the side),
I will need to alter my generally high opinion
of sailors from the Land of The Long White Cloud.
What would you say to a Nimble with a 25hp engine, good paint, main and two jibs, sink, stove, toilet, GPS and depth sounder at $2,000 ??

I'm a bit torn now, I'm leading the bidding on the Sparkle and can't go see the Piver until it finishes.

BTW the Nimble has those side pods with beds in them, plenty of room in there. You must really like to spread out.
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Old 10-06-2015, 11:40 AM   #65
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Haiqu,

As a multihull fan I can see the attractions of the Tri but the important thing is to just get out on anything and sail. The more you sail the more you will work out what the right boat is for you and what you want from it. If Keppelena has a working engine, bung the sails on and go for a sail
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:04 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Since I know nothing about gybing asymmetrical spinnakers this went a bit over my head. Do you mean letting it float forward of the forestay? Sounds like a tricky maneuver.
Yes, exactly. It's easier than it sounds because with the wind behind you once you ease the sheets the sail drifts forwards. The difference between tacking and gybing is that as your bow comes through the wind in a tack, your sails all want to float aft. In a gybe, your stern comes through the wind and your sails want to float forwards. So you just ease the working sheet as you start to gybe, let the sail float forwards and flap around, and as you come up on the other side just haul on the lazy sheet and it will all flop into place.

Having the sheets lead forward from the clew of the sail makes gybing easier than leading them aft because if you have them lead aft the sail tries to turn itself inside out as you gybe.

The downside of course is that you need longer sheets, but if you're only using the sail downwind then there will be less stress on those sheets and you can get away with lighter rope. If you remember my spinnaker sheets they are really long but quite thin.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #67
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Haiqu,

As a multihull fan I can see the attractions of the Tri but the important thing is to just get out on anything and sail. The more you sail the more you will work out what the right boat is for you and what you want from it. If Keppelena has a working engine, bung the sails on and go for a sail
Alas, she doesn't. The old Perkins 4-108 has a hole the size of a melon in the side of the block and I haven't been able to get it removed. That saga is well documented elsewhere on this site.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:26 PM   #68
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Del: Got it now, many thanks. Thus the importance of only using the genoa furthest forward when running downwind. Crystal clear.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:54 AM   #69
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For the past 12 months I've been monitoring the new and secondhand prices for TackTick instruments on a regular basis. Some items seem to be available quite cheaply, not so others.

I did a comprehensive search of resellers today and discovered that an Australian company called C. H. Smith has by far the best prices on the bits I wanted, so I went ahead and bought them. In fact they were so cheap I thought they were quoting in US dollars on the website.

T121 hull transmitter, T120 wind transmitter, T909 fluxgate compass and T910 hull triducer are all coming soon. I now have the complete set!
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:42 AM   #70
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Seller of the Hartley Sparkle cancelled the ad today on eBay. I had a feeling he'd do that, it didn't seem genuine at all. Particularly when he had all sorts of "escape clauses" there, such as "may cancel at any time if sold beforehand" and a separate ad on Gumtree.

Well, now if only I could get a response from the guy who owns that Piver ...
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