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Old 10-18-2009, 01:19 AM   #1
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Hi,

we are Australians hoping to spend some years cruising in the Baltic, UK and Meditteranean.

Taking our dog means we will have to spend winters in Europe too.

I have dual British citizenship, my husband doesn't.

My husband will register the boat in Australia and we are hoping to avoid VAT.

How have other non EU citizens managed to juggle not overstaying the Schengen visa (only 3 months in 6) with needing to stay non EU residents to avoid the VAT? Especially in the Western Med.

Cheers

Dee
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:51 AM   #2
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Hello Dee,

Some Questions :

Where is the boat ?

Why having to spend winters in Europe, because of the dog?

Registering the boat in Australia - VAT, is this Australian VAT?

Your husband with his Australian passport, can stay within the Schengen area for 90 days out of 180 without a Schengen Visa. the Uk and Ireland are outside of Schengen, so any stay there doesn't count for the 90 days.

Check with the embassies of the countries you want to visit, as to their specific visa requirements.

If you intend taking your dog, this may be more of a problem - check quarantine regulations.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:10 AM   #3
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I would also suggest that you have a look through the various countries in the Med on the Cruising Wiki - HERE.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:30 AM   #4
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Thanks for your replies.

The boat is an X yacht we will pick up ex factory in Denmark. Sailing from the Baltic to the Med via the UK over a year or two. Hoping to spend 3 or more years in the Med.

We are aware of the initial requirement to export from the EU in the first 30 days and provide evidence of this to the factory. We intend to do this by visiting the Aland Islands, which is outside the VAT area.

Our dog will have a Pet Passport and all the required immunisations so he's not a problem in Europe.

We can't do the northern summer then home to Australia for winter because of the quarantine requirements to bring the dog home each time, not to mention the cost.

We won't have to pay Australian GST (VAT) until we enter Australia with her. Its the European VAT we are trying to avoid, since hubby is not an EU citizen, and the boat will be registered in Australia.

The problem is trying to not be a resident/citizen and have to pay the VAT, while trying to legally live for longer in the Western Med than the Schengen visa (90 days) allows.

There must be plenty of USA citizens who have spent some years in the Med.

How do you get around the requirements ?

How fastidious are the authorities ?

Or do we head for Croatia and Turkey in a rush ???

Would love to hear the experiences of others

Cheers

Dee
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Old 11-24-2009, 01:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
the Uk and Ireland are outside of Schengen, so any stay there doesn't count for the 90 days.
and don't forget Gibralter... it's a protectorat/territory of the UK so is a great place for people in the western med to get away from the Schengen, Morocco is also another good place to visit to get outside the EU for a while.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:41 PM   #6
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Gib is also outside the EU and is a tax free zone. Interestingly, Las Palmas in the Canary Islands is inside the EU bit is also a tax free zone.

You can also examine the possibilities of laying up in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands, which are also outside the EU.

Then there is the north African coast. I hear some fairly reasonable things about Tunisia these days. Turkey, of course, is an old favourite and also is outside the EU. Albania is also coming up in the world. In fact it was the only way for them to go!

Just a few tips about enquiries which can be made. Otherwise I would encourage you to pay European taxes as that is where my salary comes from!

Aye // Stephen
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:06 PM   #7
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To avoid the VAT on the boat you only have to leave the EU every 18 months (in the north Norway will be the closest) and in the Med Morocco, Tunisa and Turkey work. When you first pick up you boat you can arrange to have 18 months to get it out of the EU.

The 90 days out of 180 visa is the rule. But we stayed 3 years without any major problems.

We purchased our boat in the Netherlands and followed the route you want to. If you have more questions about VAT/Visa let me know..we researched it a lot.

Jim
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:17 PM   #8
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On your way south stopoff in the Channel Islands. They are outside the EU and so the 18 months will be reset (keep berthing receipt to prove you were there). The other wrinkle to be aware of is Spain in particular started making noises about foreign flagged boats staying more that 18months have to 'import' the boat to Spain as well as the EU. This entails re-flagging the boat, getting the appropriate Spanish qualifications and paying some form of import duty. Avoid this!!! I met somebody who was about to be caught by this rule in the summer of 08. he had fallen ill crossing Biscay, needed medical treatment and a lengthy recuperation period and so bumped up against the 18 month rule. He was having to leave in a hurry!

If you are a non-EU citizen you have 18 months to get the boat out of the EU. If you are an EU citizen you have 30 days, as you say. If this is a problem, consider registering the boat in hubbies name only.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #9
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I think there is/was a nice piece on this can of worms(schengen) on noonsite.com

In the Med not all officials know/apply the proper rules, which makes it harder to understand and live with.

It is possible to get extensions in some countries, and some also apply their own rules to yachties.

Just remember you're the guest, they are always right, ask them what you should do.

We are Aussies on an Ozy boat.

We are in Portugal and have spoken with the immigration man, and he has assurred us we can get 3 month extensions for the length of our stay in this country. Of course these extensions may not be recognised in other schengen countries!!!

The VAT is, for us at least, not a problem, due to our sailing plans.

Happy Sailing,

Stephen
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:03 PM   #10
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The Official Schengen Visa details website - from the World Cruising Wiki.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimthomsen' date='26 November 2009 - 11:06 PM View Post

To avoid the VAT on the boat you only have to leave the EU every 18 months (in the north Norway will be the closest) and in the Med Morocco, Tunisa and Turkey work. When you first pick up you boat you can arrange to have 18 months to get it out of the EU.

The 90 days out of 180 visa is the rule. But we stayed 3 years without any major problems.

We purchased our boat in the Netherlands and followed the route you want to. If you have more questions about VAT/Visa let me know..we researched it a lot.

Jim
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your post. It confirms what we know. We think it will be easy to keep the boat compliant, as it only has to leave the EU for the day, then reenter, every 18 months.

We are more worried about us and the 90 days in 180, which would be very difficult to comply with. We are not sure if the regulations are actually enforced by the various governments or border control posts.

You say you stayed 3 years without 'major problems'.

Were you asked about it ? Did they mind how long you had spent in the previous Schengen countries? Have you heard of anyone being fined or not allowed back in for breaching it ? Did you apply for residency for long stays (eg wintering) ?

Thanks for you help.

Dee and Dave

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Old 05-09-2010, 07:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Solero' date='07 May 2010 - 01:53 PM View Post

Did you apply for residency for long stays (eg wintering) ?
A swift word of warning here. If you apply for and are granted a resident's permit it, de facto, means that you are a European resident and are therefore obliged to pay VAT on you boat. As an Australian, the VAT rule and temporary excemption from it are not linked to your nationality but your country of residence.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:57 PM   #13
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It has been awhile since activity on this thread. Any updates or additional advice/experience regarding how to manage the 90 out of 180 day rule for an Australian planning to cruise the Med for unknown period (probably between 2 and 5 calendar years, most probably 5-6 months/year - but ideally option to winter on the boat in a great place (eg. Rome - other suggestions?). From a VAT perspective it seems best option for a new boat is to have it delivered in Gibraltar, registered as Australian?
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