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Old 06-14-2010, 01:23 AM   #29
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One would hope that Abby's achievement in navigating that boat through that narrow stretch of water that separates South America from Antarctica is not forgotten in the clamour to excoriate her family.

Southern Ocean Squeeze.jpg

One might also observe that the mores of contemporary society require each generation of teenagers to be wrapped in the protective supervision of a caring and nurturing society that requires the services of social workers, grief counsellors and trauma experts. Assumptions that catostrophic events psychologically damage children for life go largely unchallenged. Group hugs and specialist counsellors, it seems, go hand in hand.

The blame game has a new victim - guess? the Family, because they have been revealed as British? When BP's oil well blew up in the Gulf of Mexico the media went bonkers : "The British are to blame , they must pay for this etc etc." Guess what? The majority of executive and board directors are Americans, The majority of th engineers are Americans, the majority of the platform workers are Americans or Mexicans. All of a sudden the media have turned the spotlight off the United Kingdom and now blame the White House.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by MMNETSEA' date='14 June 2010 - 03:23 AM View Post

One would hope that Abby's achievement in navigating that boat through that narrow stretch of water that separates South America from Antarctica is not forgotten in the clamour to excoriate her family.
Indeed. No one should take from Abby the fact that she has already achieved a great deal more than most young people ever will. Hats off to her. She is a couragous young lady who certainly has navigation and sailing skills far beyond most people of her or any age. I attach no blame to her.

Should we be playing, "the blame game". Well, yes for two simple reasons.

1. It is a parent's duty to ensure the safety of their children. Any thinking person will realise that children must be subject to some threats otherwise they would never grow into mature adults capable of assessing dangers for themselves. Children have to be allowed to cycle to school, play sports etc. What they should not be exposed to are risks to their physical or mental health which go beyond the bounds of a sound upbringing. I not only allowed but encouraged my children to sail and to take part in other activities, always allowing them to push the bounds but only by one step at a time. In Abby's case, her parents not only allowed but encouraged their daughter to expose herself to risks no child should be taking. This, in my opinion, makes them just as unfit to foster children as parents who neglect or beat their children.

2. As previously stated, I certainly support free rescue for anyone in distress. Of course, there are differing opinions about what constitutes distress but that is another issue. The concept should be that all efforts should be made to rescue anyone in distress at sea. However, when distress is caused by stupidity, the person responsible should pay the price. In this particular case we see a plea for money to salvage the boat but why not a plea for money to pay the French fishermen for lost income? Why do we see no plea for money to pay the ship's owner for loss of revenue and additional the expences incured during the rescue? Do the Sunderlands for one moment think that this is paid from government funds?

The only conclusions I can draw from this debacle is that Abby is a brave and skilled young lady. Her parents do not deserve such a daughter. In fact, if they deserve anything at all it is jail.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:09 AM   #31
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There may have been a point in time and place where the parents were no longer in a position to assert parental authority.

If one accepts that the original and specific objective was to be the youngest solo non-stop circumnavigator, that this objective was reassessed when the boat had to stop in Mexico for a minor repair. But when the objective could not be realized following a prolonged stop in Cape Town - South Africa, for complex repairs. At that point Abby was being provided with options from a renowned team of Marine Meteorologists in New Hampshire USA, these options were derived from the daily analysis of wind and waves. The route that Abby followed to the day of the boat's dis-masting was that provided by the NH team.

If one accepts that Abby was more than competent to tackle notorious Cape Horn - which was achieved without much fanfare - and ipso-facto the Cape of Good Hope, where she arrived safely in a boat needing vital repairs to continue. Then do the team of established experts that had been assembled to provide Abby with critical passage and route information assume the role of in loco parentis? From a legal aspect, possibly yes, but practically NO --- Abby when she left Cape Town was the Master of her own destiny and her boat.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:27 AM   #32
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Perhaps a weather router in the US was being consulted. Does that mean that Abby consulted them? That she received the information unfiltered by her ambitious family? or "Team Abby"? And do we know what that weather consultant said? Sure, she's down there, what was she going to do, turn around?

She should not have been there in the first place, all the routing information around could not get her out of there when the weather went bad.

I do not believe that Abby had even a slight inkling of what she was going to encounter, and it was her parents and the rest of the team who directed her to that point where she pushed the button to get out. Considering how often she telephoned home, it is more likely that she is still the kid whose parents tell her what to do.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:03 PM   #33
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Maybe my rantings served some good. (Yeah, yeah, Jeanne, let's not get a big head, there, you know you had little or nothing to do with it.) They've taken down the Save Wild Eyes begging site. "We have exhausted all efforts to locate and retrieve Wild Eyes." They say they're going to refund the money. Yay! However, I still want to know if they will refund it.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:11 PM   #34
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Curmudgeon returns with lots of little questions - Pillory the family and the team - Belittle the daughter. Especially when all the facts are known.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:11 PM   #35
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J--in an earlier post you mention jury-rigging and continuing onwards. There are times when people do this and times when they don't.

Rigging and continuing on is what people do when 1--they're cruising with a boat which is their home and may have all their worldly possessions aboard; 2--they don't have contact with other people so they're pretty much on their own anyway; 3--their boat is of such a design that they can reliably heave to and ride out rough weather; 4--the goal is to travel and if they lose their boat they won't be able to continue traveling.

Probably many other reasons but those are some that I can think of. Abby doesn't fit the profile of someone who has a reason to continue onwards on her own. If she was "giving up" the goal of being youngest to do the trip, she'd have time to actually complete the journey on her own. She'd have time to be self sufficient and wouldn't need to be calling "team abby" all the time. However, this strange goal of being the youngest to circumnavigate just gets in the way of good sense regarding routing and regarding sticking with the boat to bring it home. I truly doubt that boat could have been jury rigged and sailed onwards with safety in the winter in the IO. But, other folks with more expertise than I have can speak to that.

I am saddened that Abby isn't able to complete her journey and it ends like this--it would have been nice for her to complete the trip even if she missed the silly deadline of being youngest.

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Old 06-14-2010, 03:41 PM   #36
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I am sorry but irrespective of whether weather routing was available or not, ultimately it is the ship's master who bears the responsibility. Regardless of her abilities and experience, Abby is not legally old enough to do that.

Certainly the parents should be shackled to the pillory but let the daughter go free. She is the innocent one here and, I would suggest as I have previously mentioned, a very capable young lady although, in this case, it matters not one iota how well versed in seamanship and navigation Abby is.

What is the next step: 14-year-old or even younger setting out alone to sail around the globe? No, again irrespective of experience and skill, the line has to be drawn somewhere and I would suggest that it be drawn where the lawmakers already have drawn it.

When I was 20 I passed my second mates exam. Even though I had sufficient sea time to get my "ticket", it was not issued until I was 21. Why? Simply because the regulations stated that to be the case. These regulations were founded on the wisdom of years which said that a person younger than 21 years of age should not be officer of the watch. Do you not find it strange that a 20 year-old with documented sea-time and training may not keep a watch under the supervision and guidance of a ship's master and his mates whereas a 16 year-old may sail as unlicensed master of his/her own vessel?

Sometimes, we just have to wait to grow up. We all did. Abby can do so too. More importantly, parents should not be permitted to send their children out on adventures such as these. There should be no prize for being youngest to do anything. I am not saying that we should not encourage youngsters to great achievements but we should not push them further than is good for their bodies or minds. This does not just apply to sailing but to other sports as well. Sport should be something youngsters participate in for the enjoyment of it and not continuously to win and set records. Happy is the young man who has a good game of rugger, returns to the changing room having thoroughly enjoyed the match even if his team lost. Unhappy is the one who always has to win. Life is not about always winning and those that think so will be sorely disappointed one day.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:41 PM   #37
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Read this: All a publicity to sell TV show?

and this Lat38 info

I can't say anything without being very unkind, so please do it for me.

A few hours later:

The Sunderland family seems to be really, really awful. They've been flogging their children's bodies for sensational TV for months, it seems. See this "reality TV" website "projects" - 3 shows

I want to throttle these parents. Children were not put on this earth to materially enrich their parents. There must be a special place in hell for parents like this. I want to gag.
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:32 AM   #38
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OK... I'll do it for you.... stupid to the nth degree...the whole bloody tribe of them....

They filter all the comments to her blog... they have managed to post a cupla hundred of several 1000 or more... I guess the rest are not to their liking...

The thing that really p*****s me orf is that to the world at large now see her as the face of sailing... and those of us as does things correctly and with due care etc and then gets into trouble will be tarred with the Sunderland brush.....
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank' date='15 June 2010 - 02:32 AM View Post

OK... I'll do it for you.... stupid to the nth degree...the whole bloody tribe of them....

They filter all the comments to her blog... they have managed to post a cupla hundred of several 1000 or more... I guess the rest are not to their liking...

The thing that really p*****s me orf is that to the world at large now see her as the face of sailing... and those of us as does things correctly and with due care etc and then gets into trouble will be tarred with the Sunderland brush.....
While I believe that we do coddle our children way to much these days (Less than 100 yrs ago 12 yr olds where working open ocean vessels, less than 40 yrs ago they where able to set up and run small business'). I have a special place for what appears to exploitation by family and business'; it involves rope and a good stout limb or boom. Considering the company that was going to do the TV and other media work with that family has no problem stealing from other peoples work (GunMech is blatant theft of earlier Japanese Anime from the 70's and 80's). I am thinking they could use at least a good flogging.

The above are my opinions, no one else has to like or agree. It just annoyed me to no end to see things turn the way they have. Abby's boat appears to not have been properly set up nor equipped and the price by its loss has been paid. Now hopefully someone will arrive to collect the fees for saving her from the parents. May she learn from this. I doubt her parents will.

Michael

PS Edited for spelling and grammar.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:30 PM   #40
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Change of tack here.

One issue arrising from abandoning boats, as Abby did, is that the abondoned vessel becomes a hinder to navigation.

We are all aware, maybe only too well, of the consequences of meeting a floating container at sea. I suggest that the consequences of colliding with an abondoned boat are no less. I know well enough that few, if any, people are sailing in the latitudes Abby abandonned her boat in but it is, nonetheless, my contention that anyone abandoning a boat at sea which is not in a sinking condition should help it on its way to the bottom to prevent it becoming a danger to other vessels.

What say the team?

// Stephen
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:03 PM   #41
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Hi Stephen,

100% if it cannot be salvaged - Sink it! I have tried towing an abandoned Tayana 37

off the northern coast of Borneo with a Nordhaven trawler, as soon as one reached 9/10 knots, the Tayana would imitate a submarine and wander all over the place. Eventually I got it to a port and parked it! A boat abandoned in the Antarctic Ocean would eventually become a real hazard when it reached Tasmanian waters. During the winter, the seas in those waters would probably sink that boat. However, a little push from the French Trawler could have dispatched it into Davy Jones' Locker.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:07 PM   #42
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I got the impression from something I read about this whole issue was that the Open 40 was virtually unsinkable, so trying to sink it might make it an even greater hazard if floating just barely awash. Not knowing anything about these racing boats, though, I would like to hear others' opinions.
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