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Old 02-22-2011, 04:39 PM   #21
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...

If anything good comes out of this it may be that the US and its allies will now be willing to take stronger action. Let's hope so.

Aye**//**Stephen
yes, very sad and terrifying news...*

... and especially as stronger actions must have top priority as there are currently about 30 ships with a total crewnumber of 500 in capture, the range of pirat activities spread out, and as the pirates acts get more violent and "professional": they were even able to enter the heavily secured pirate safe room after two and a half days on the MS BELUGA NOMINATION, captured in January. One crew member escaped (in an inflatabe), two are dead...

... and now four fellow sailors had to die...

Uwe

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Old 02-22-2011, 08:07 PM   #22
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I'm pretty sure we will be hanging out in Australia till the powder keg chills. It will be interesting to see what develops from this tragic event...public hangings come to mind.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:10 PM   #23
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Trim,

Personally I think you are right in that it should be public with the PC folks who are helping the pirates right next to them. What is that old saying about Evil not needing the aid of good men but only their inaction/apathy? Seems like we are getting into that place again in history where there is going to be an ugly war coming.

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Old 02-23-2011, 04:38 AM   #24
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An interesting, if much simplified, analysis of the piracy situtation from the BBC HERE.

Unfortunately, the only conclussion reached by the analysis is that, "With the use of force on the increase, these hostages could now be in more danger" and no call for governments to do more.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:15 AM   #25
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An interesting aspect of what is to come of the pirates in custody is the probability that most of them are teenagers. Will the American public deal with them the way they should be or will the bleeding hearts come to their rescue?
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:33 AM   #26
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Will the American public deal with them the way they should be or will the bleeding hearts come to their rescue?
What is likely to happen, both in the US and elsewhere, is that these captured pirates will be model prisoners. They will work hard and probably study and be seen as being rehabilitated. As a consequence, they will receive remission of their prison terms and be let out after half the time. Of course, if Somalia is still in the state it is today they will claim asylum as it is unsafe to send the poor people back from whence they came or maybe a new regime, if there is one, will not recognize them and they will be stateless.

Either way, the end result is the same. We will end up keeping them for the rest of their lives and in far greater comfort than they have ever known. Of course, everybody should have an opportunity to live a safe and normally comfortable life but that should come through hard work – it should never be the reward of heinous criminal action.

I hate to think how much each and every one of these vermin is going to cost society but I do know that, whatever the cost, the funds would have been better spent in schools and hospitals benefitting those who paid the money in the first place and now have little or no say in how it is used.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:13 AM   #27
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That is why their port of entry needs to be Dallas, Texas...they would be shown to the front of the line no matter their age.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:29 AM   #28
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That is why their port of entry needs to be Dallas, Texas.
Agreed!

But in our PC aware society this is far too unlikely to happen. Unfortunately.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:39 PM   #29
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I, like all of you, have been following this particular case of piracy as well as the overall piracy issue for the past years.

First of all I want to express my deepest sympathy to the families of the victims. We, as cruisers, do take responsibility for our actions and are, hopefully, aware of possible risks and consequences. But often our families are not aware of this and do face, as in this case, tragic consequences.

I am also writing to voice my mild disagreement with the comments many of you have made. Let me first state that I think that piracy is an appalling crime. A crime to which, as a cruiser, I am particularly sensitive and even vulnerable. So, while I do agree with all the comments saying that stronger and definitely firmer measures need to be taken by the international community I disagree that this community should act in a vigilante manner. Pirates do violate all the codes of a civilized society but their crimes do not justify our "civilized society" to act outside our civilized laws. If we do that, we are marginally no better then the pirates. This, by the way, has happened in the US in the "war on terror."

Let me clarify. Maybe we should be less willing to pay ransoms and the use of some force under the circumstances is justified. Apprehended pirates should not be coddled. They should tried and if convicted jailed for very long terms (no parole) and then extradited to their country of origin, not maintained at the public expense. I do not, in anyway, object to a naval ship firing at the pirates if fired upon. I do however object to unconditionally blowing them (suspected pirates, victims, etc) out of the water.

I am and have been a very liberal person but I do find a lot of faults with the PC and its opposites. What we all need is common sense, a set of principles, and most important to stay away from the extremes. Piracy is not a political issue of liberals versus conservatives. It is lawless, uncivilized, and self serving behavior. It should not be tolerated. But while we should deal with the pirates and terrorists we should not become in our actions like them. If we do they have won.

Sorry for the long diatribe.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:23 AM   #30
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Pirates who take hostages for ransom are no different to Kidnappers who kidnap children for ransom or Bank robbers who take employees for ransom. The appalling anguish that is caused to all the innocents in indescribable to those that have not experienced that trauma. Kidnapping was and is still a capital crime in many jurisdictions and is punishable by death.

In nearly all of the 54 countries of Africa the indigenous peoples are no better off than those of Somalia, yet they are not pirates (only one other practices piracy - Nigeria. In pre-Colonial Africa there were over 10,000 different "countries" in Africa, in a significant number the whole way of life was to Rape, Plunder and Pillage. Don't look further now than the Congo, Sudan, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Sierra Leon etc .. How about Egypt, Libya, Morocco, and .... don't forget that Somalis are 99% Sunni.

The Somali pirates are latter day terrorists - no more no less.

The Guantanamo concentration camp in Cuba could be a potential holding camp pending legal execution.
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:58 PM   #31
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Pirates warn of no mercy for Americans, Koreans and French

Barely one day after the killing of four middle-aged Americans who had been highjacked on their yacht Quest by Somali pirates, a well-known Somali pirate by the name of Ali Hirsi has issued a dire warning to other Americans, Koreans and French who are captured that they are at great risk.

Speaking on the Somaliweyn website early yesterday morning Hirsi, who comes from the Hobyo district in central Somalia, said he was speaking on behalf of the other pirates.

I would like to inform the nationals of America, French and South Korea that from today henceforth if they come into our trap we are not going to do any favour, but the knife will be on their throats. We never used to kill foreigners whom we take as hostages, but instead demand for ransom, but the case is quite different. I reiterate again the citizens of the three countries which I have stated should keep off from the vast Indian Ocean, or else will have rough time with us,” he said.

Hirsi acknowledged having lost two pirates who died when the US Navy boarded the yacht this week, along with 13 other pirates that had been taken captive, but said they (the pirates) were not scared of death and were ready to face the worst from the United States, France or South Korea.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:37 PM   #32
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I am not blood thirsty, nor do I take joy in death or killing. I am a former solider. I have been honored to give the last respects that is due one of my brethren (Be they man or woman). I am also a father and a sailor by choice (though coming from a Sicilian family that was and is Sailors, one could say that it is in the blood). What this long statement is for, is simple. Between a lawless society, greed, and lack of value of others (both in life and property) Somali has become a rather serious problem. Which according to some sources are aided by the like of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Yemeni warlords in their actions and acquiring the tools for their trade (the sources themselves may have agendas for saying this).

Under these conditions (there is no way to call this a "norm" ) it is often needed to use force one find offensive and revolting. Unfortunately one does not discuss reason with rabid persons. They will lie and do what ever they want once they have the ability to do so. Historically the only means with which to stop this type of "crime" is to pick up the sword and use it. Then apply the teachings of Sun Tzu and win over the population by creating a stable enviroment that they can nurture and build. During that time you will have to destroy those who wish to destroy for the sake of power, greed, and many other rationalized reasons.

When I first heard that they had been killed, I searched multiple different language web pages hoping that it was not true. Than I wept. I never met them, but the violent loss of life for no reason than greed and power is wrong. What is equally as sad is the weak appeasing nature of many in many governments that don't want to dirty their hands. This is a disease. It will spread if not already doing (considering how violent parts of urban America, Europe are becoming one could argue all ready here).

I don't have any easy answers, I wish I did. I do see that in the not distant future this is going to become a much more costly problem than anyone really wants to pay.

Michael

Edited for grammar and a few miss typed words.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Istioploos View Post

I am also writing to voice my mild disagreement with the comments many of you have made. Let me first state that I think that piracy is an appalling crime. A crime to which, as a cruiser, I am particularly sensitive and even vulnerable. So, while I do agree with all the comments saying that stronger and definitely firmer measures need to be taken by the international community I disagree that this community should act in a vigilante manner. Pirates do violate all the codes of a civilized society but their crimes do not justify our "civilized society" to act outside our civilized laws. If we do that, we are marginally no better then the pirates. This, by the way, has happened in the US in the "war on terror."

Let me clarify. Maybe we should be less willing to pay ransoms and the use of some force under the circumstances is justified. Apprehended pirates should not be coddled. They should tried and if convicted jailed for very long terms (no parole) and then extradited to their country of origin, not maintained at the public expense. I do not, in anyway, object to a naval ship firing at the pirates if fired upon. I do however object to unconditionally blowing them (suspected pirates, victims, etc) out of the water.
Short response, according to UNCLOS:

Article105

Seizure of a pirate ship or aircraft

On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.


Here we have it. UNCLOS gives every state the right, on the high seas, to intervene against piracy. Not a lot left to debate really, except in court. The court decdides the sanction - simple as that.

Although I am a great beliver in the judical processes of democratic states one has to accept the fact that the henious crimes committed by these pirates take place outside the boundaries of jurisprudence save that of International Law. This is the choice the pirates made, not the international community.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Nausikaa View Post

Short response, according to UNCLOS:

Article105

Seizure of a pirate ship or aircraft

On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.


Here we have it. UNCLOS gives every state the right, on the high seas, to intervene against piracy. Not a lot left to debate really, except in court. The court decdides the sanction - simple as that.

Although I am a great beliver in the judical processes of democratic states one has to accept the fact that the henious crimes committed by these pirates take place outside the boundaries of jurisprudence save that of International Law. This is the choice the pirates made, not the international community.

Aye // Stephen
Gooday All. 'Aye' // Stephen. Thank you so much for bringing the 'facts' to the table. As always & yet again - your knowledge -'shines-through' . Thank Gawd for your 'common sense' (which is not all so common) & your clarity & focus of vision.

Vasilis - to quote you 'I am also writing to voice my mild disagreement with the comments many of you have made' etc etc. Well now - it's your tern!! To each and everyone of you - especially Vasilis; If these heinous crimes were being carried-out in your 'patch' - how would you then feel? Vasilis - if armed persons boarded SY Thetis, with 'on-good-intent', pointed guns at you with the intent of - holding you for ransom, taking your boat, taking you prisoner, maiming or killing you - - somewhere in the Mediterranean, the North or South Atlantic, the Caribbean or Chesapeake Bay - - I'll bet 'London to a bloody brick' you would have a different view of circumstances. As a male, 71, ex-pat Canuck living in Australia - know for sure I would take all & any steps to protect my yacht, myself & my crew, regardless of what that might take. Whilst I defend your right to your own opinion & to express it then equally allow me the same right. There are some simple principles of communal life on the planet; if they are hungry - get off your lazy *** & go farming or go to work; if their country is stuffed - fix it or leave; if you want to break the 'rules of humanity' - do so at your own peril; if you point a gun at me be prepared to get shot & killed. 2 sayings are relevant here; 1/ Survival of the fittest, 2/ shoot first & ask questions after.

Whilst I have not intention to cruise, visit or go anywhere near that area however if I was so disposed to do so, I would be fully equipped to survive at all costs. 'Winners are grinners' & I'm still alive
(in & out of several war zones). For the life of me (pun intended) I can't see why you would seek reason to or wish to allow anyone to 'lock-up' the whole of the Indian Ocean & all it's near areas by acts of terrorism because they didn't want to go do an honest days work but chose to kill innocent people. If you wish to defend them then do so in an international court of law, but please don't try to find justification for 'action not taken'. We have our freedom because we fought bloody hard for it not because we let the rule of the jungle take over and screw with our sense of justice, humanity & the right to live in peace. Just try taking mine away & see where that gets, not far & not alive - I might wager. Regards my cruising compatriot, james, 'JJ-geri-hat-trick'

PS. Stephen, please look at 'Mico's - 'Do I stay or do I go'. Sure would like your knowledge on this one. Tnx. 'SR'
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:12 PM   #35
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NORFOLK

13 Somalis and one Yemeni have been indicted in Norfolk Federal court for pirating a yacht with two American couples aboard who were later killed off the coast of Somalia.

Full report - HERE
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:53 AM   #36
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Feds Say Somali Negotiator Researched American Hostages On Web.

Full report - HERE
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:56 AM   #37
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Lighthouse,

Thank you very much for that update. It gives hope that forces of reason are now waking up and taking action. Personally while the fourteen may or may not deserve to be given a ticket to Huntsville, Texas; the leader most assuredly does deserve a one way ticket to Huntsville and a last meal. Though Sing sing is closer and still in use in New York State last I knew.

Michael
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