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Old 03-12-2010, 02:42 AM   #1
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Hi all. I own a 72 ft Indonsian yacht type phinisi (schooner) based iin the philippines. She was built 2000 in Bira, Sulawesi of ironwood and teak, about 6 to 4 inch thick planking which are pegged together using hardwood pegs. The last time she was caulked was about 2005 by the previous owner in Indonesia. He advised recaulking about every 5 years. To me it is quite a major task as there are no boatbuilders or boat yerds (dry docks) experienced in recaulking a large wooden hull of 72ft loa and 15ft beam and 2 mts draft. She was dry docked about a yeear ago in ship repair yard in Mindanao for a repaint and antifouling where the hull was sanded and repaiinted with Joton Marine paints. The hull seemed very sound except some minor seam cracks at the stern which wee made good by the yard carpenter with expoxy cement mixture.

She takes in about 30 lts leakage a day which is shifted in a couple of mins by the bilge pumps, otherwise shoe is very dry below decks. I am afraid to make the passage to Bira, which is the only place I can think off capable of recaulking her, because of the gauntlet of corrupt immigration, customs and port officials who fleace foreign yacht owners.

Is it a feasible DIY job?, what are the best materials to use, although probably unobtainable in the Philippines, tools needed? and time.

taken to do it.

regards Jibsail, Camiguin Island, Philippines
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:19 AM   #2
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She should be a very nice boat. Can you show pictures?

I guess you can find out what is involved in caulking her at http://www.woodenboat.com/

30 liter a day for her construction may not be much, but I for one would be happier to have no noticeable leakage.

You might want to consider to add a layer of polyester cloth wetted with epoxy. It should make her waterproof,

more resistant, and polyester can move with the wood. See the "Xynole polyester cloth" thread on wooden boat forum.

Doing anything of this short should be a big job on a boat that size.
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:03 AM   #3
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Hello Jibsail,

There are a number of yards that can haul a traditional wooden boat in South East Asia, In Indonesia a number of yards, In Thailand A friend of mine had his 100 year old Historical Vessel recaulked in Pandang. One can haul nearer to you in Kudat - Northern Sabah, Malaysia - they can organize recaulking. In the the Philippines speak to Mike Allen at the Boatshop Port Carman Cebu .

Richard
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:40 PM   #4
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Hi there! Jibsail,

Your boat sounds nice.

MMNETSEA has a good knowledge of wooden boat construction and it seems that his sources can help you as well.

Caulking or seam compound???

A proper, traditional cotton/oakum caulking job with seam compound over it should last many, many years. Like--10, 20, 30...50...a long time. Our 54' (deck length) wooden schooner was built in 1931, and never recaulked once until we did it last year--it did have the traditional seam compound replaced every 20 to 30 years, this we know. When we purchased the boat, part of it did need to be re-planked and we decided to do all of it for cost and efficiency reasons. After hubby and another fellow completed the full hull re-planking, I did all 75% of the caulking, hubby did about 25% of it. It is not rocket science. It took me a couple weeks though since our boat is large. If you don't have access to someone who can show you how to do it, you can read up on it in a couple places (PM me for reference book info) and you can even see it being done in some UTube videos.

"minor seam cracks at the stern which wee made good by the yard carpenter with expoxy cement mixture" If you are thinking about putting fabrics/resins over a traditionally planked boat, it is probably time to get out of the wood boat and into a boat that was designed to be cold-molded or just a fiberglass boat, btw.

IMHO polymers, epoxies, etc, do not belong on boats of traditional wooden construction such as yours seems to have. Stick with the traditional caulking materials (of cotton/oakum) and seam compounds but not things like 3M 5200, roofing tar, cement and the like the former you will find unwitting yacht owners allowing to be used and the latter you will find fishing boats repaired with.

We did a major, major rebuild on our boat and thus it was out of the water for a couple years. The oak keel had some very large/long cracks in it which were NOT seams but cracks from drying and we used a compound called Dolfinite bedding compound to fill those cracks until the boat was back in the water. Once re-launched, the oak soaked up water, the cracks closed and squeezed out the Dolfinite and when we do our 1st year year haul out later this spring, we'll clean it off of the bottom and repaint those areas. An epoxy or something like 5200 would have Permanently! kept those cracks open forever more. Not good.

If regular boat seams open up while the boat is dry, putting something permanent and non-flexible in the cracks will help to ensure that the boat sustains damage and leaks.

You have ongoing leaks which may be normal or maybe not. Knowing where the water is coming from is rather an important thing. Usually if you have a large leak, the bottom paint (outside of the hull) around a crack will begin to flake or chip away and you'll see the primer or underlying wood in the areas of leaks. You might wish to dive on the boat and inspect seams from the outside as well as looking around inside to figure out where things are leaking. I worried excessively that our garboard seams would leak since I did the caulking and I was afraid that I didn't do a good job. They don't leak thank goodness. The only seeping we have comes from between layers of deadwood. It is minor and at this point we are probably getting 1 gallon of water per day max. It is so seldom the pump comes on that I am now estimating this number.

Good luck to you in getting together with a good caulker or doing the work yourself. If you have questions about DIY please do feel free to PM me.

Brenda

PS.

You should be able to find cotton or oakum caulking as well as seam compounds locally. If you cannot, it is possible to order through USA sources and have things delivered to you. Downwind Marine in San Diego CA sends things to cruisers worldwide. It is owned by SD Marine Exchange and I have purchased cotton caulking as well as seam compound from them. Chris Frost there at Downwind is a wooden boat owner (former, he doesn't have one now) and knows all the materials you might need. Other sources include The Wooden Boat Foundation in Port Townsend Washington. Their online store has caulking irons, mallets etc. You don't need fancy tools though you can make many yourself. Jamestown Distributors has many of the traditional materials and I have also purchased Dolfinite as well as Interlux seam compound from them.
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Old 03-14-2010, 02:01 PM   #5
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Hi All. Thanks so much for the informative replies, certainly has given me some reassurance about it being not a priority job for this year. I will shop round some of the marine/fishing hardware stores in cagayan and Cebu for the oakum. Yacht chandleries are few and far in the Philippines between and cater mostly for 12 mt class yachts and dinghies. I will search through my collection of online images of the yacht, but have recently changed the colour scheme and the sail plan, by extending the bowsprit by 25 ft so I can fly three jibs, adding topsails to the main and mizzen gaffs and 2 stay sails. I will post on the rigging and sails my dilemna and solution for getting replacement new sails.

With best regards

David Shaw, RIMA, Camiguin Island, Philippines.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibsail View Post
Hi All. Thanks so much for the informative replies, certainly has given me some reassurance about it being not a priority job for this year. I will shop round some of the marine/fishing hardware stores in cagayan and Cebu for the oakum. Yacht chandleries are few and far in the Philippines between and cater mostly for 12 mt class yachts and dinghies. I will search through my collection of online images of the yacht, but have recently changed the colour scheme and the sail plan, by extending the bowsprit by 25 ft so I can fly three jibs, adding topsails to the main and mizzen gaffs and 2 stay sails. I will post on the rigging and sails my dilemna and solution for getting replacement new sails.

With best regards

David Shaw, RIMA, Camiguin Island, Philippines.
Hi David,

We'll look forward to hearing more about your boat. Which naval architect did you work with to re-calculate your stability curves with your new sail plan? Often overlooked details make a huge difference in the seaworthiness of a boat with a modified rig and not many NA's are knowledgeable in gaff rigs these days. How much ballast did you add or relocate to compensate for the increased weight aloft? How has the performance of the boat changed?

Fair winds,
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:40 AM   #7
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Hello . sorry about late reply, my iinternet connection is very erratic and depends upon wireless. Reference the rerigging of my boat. Firstly I never considered a naval architect and wouldn't know how to contact one here in the philippines. i based the new sail plan on that of a Hull (england) ssailing trawler built in 1890. i have a full set of plans, sail, hull, etc from an excellent book called Sailing Trawlers by Edgar March written in 1947. The trawler which sailed to Icalend, Faroes, Greenland etc without an engine and power enough to drag a trawl is almost identical hull lines, weight, LOA etc to my boat. I only needed to extend the bowsprit, and add the topsails whixh were made by a local canvas maker. They seem OK but have yet to try them in a fresh wind. The sail plan is mainly for aesthetic reasons as opposed to performance. My charter guests appreciate seeing lots of sail and ropes. Still have to keep a three man crew to manhandle them, and unafraid of heights or shimmiing out along the bowsprit.

My big dilema co0ncerning the stability is the addition of stern davits to carry my service tender which I recently changed to a 12 ft central control speedboat. We had problems towing the tender on a recent crossing of the bohol sea, so we diesigned a stern lift and supports to carry her at the stern. I will post some fotos to show the arrangements, but dreading the prospect of encountering a rough following sea.

jib
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Old 04-15-2010, 03:13 AM   #8
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Seriously, David, you should have a NA or engineer do the correct calcs for the addition of topsails. Further, with an extended bowsprit, did you end up with the opposite of weather helm (um...lee helm?). If you didn't do something to balance the rig, most certainly you'll have problems coming up into the wind with topsails and more jib but no extension to the mail sail on a schooner.

Even if the sail plan change was just for aesthetics, adding weight and sail area up high has to be accounted for with additional ballast or change in ballast location. In the USA, a charter vessel with more than 6 passengers aboard would be what is called an "inspected vessel" by the USCG and the changes would have to be approved. While you are working somewhere where it is likely that such bureaucracy doesn't exist, your passengers deserve to be setting sail on an aesthetically pleasing AND SAFE vessel. Many big schooners and tall ships have capsized due to inappropriate rig changes involving addition of yard arms and top sails--all for the charter trade and aesthetics.

If you have no familiarity with Naval Architects and wouldn't know where to start, try emailing Roger Long (here's a link to him). He is expert in matters relating to vessel stability (link to some writing he's done regarding such) and he has a soft spot in his heart for we owners of wooden boats

Good luck,
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