Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Bosun's Locker > Engines | Propulsion | Generators
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-16-2013, 02:11 AM   #15
Moderator
 
delatbabel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 687
Send a message via AIM to delatbabel
Default

I'm considering repowering with electric, if not in the immediate future then perhaps in 3-4 years time when my current engine reaches end of life (it's a 1991 model Vetus, based on a Peugeot, parts are also becoming hard to source).

My current engine is 52HP but I think I could probably get away with 40. I would probably keep the diesel fuel tank to run a genset for a hybrid solution, but I haven't decided on an electric engine yet. Mastervolt appear to have a solution in the 40HP range, does anyone have any experience with those?
__________________

__________________
= New South Wales, Queensland,
delatbabel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 01:25 PM   #16
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Home Port: Nuuk
Vessel Name: La Gitana
Posts: 16
Default

Which is my question also
__________________

__________________
reefhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 04:31 PM   #17
Rear Admiral
 
Aquaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Home Port: Hamburg GER
Vessel Name: Aquaria
Posts: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delatbabel View Post
I'm considering repowering with electric, if not in the immediate future then perhaps in 3-4 years time when my current engine reaches end of life (it's a 1991 model Vetus, based on a Peugeot, parts are also becoming hard to source).

My current engine is 52HP but I think I could probably get away with 40. I would probably keep the diesel fuel tank to run a genset for a hybrid solution, but I haven't decided on an electric engine yet. Mastervolt appear to have a solution in the 40HP range, does anyone have any experience with those?
...you are right. The power available (input/output ratio) on the prop of the electric engine can be 90% or even more - so it is much better than a Diesel engine that provides maybe 60% power on the prop. The rest is heat. Alot of heat. Therefore it is no problem to reduce the over all power!
We have been running our electric engine 10 hours or more at a time - and not just once to pass the 50nm long Kiel Canal - and the electric motor was only 'hand warm' and it has no external cooling.

Here in GER we just had a good overview on the actual electric engine systems on the market in a technical boating magazine at the end of last year. Unfortunately in German language and not online.
Give me some time to do a little excerpt on that - but that can't happen before beginning of February. This is not yet the first hand experience you asked for - electric engines or hybrid solutions are still very rare out there on the water.


@reefhunter - thank you for your pm! Here are some numbers of weight:
Original engine (Volvo MD2b 25hp 2zyl about 230 kg / 507 lbs
extra starter battery 30 kg / 66 lbs
total weigt for old system: about 260 Kg / 547 lbs

Electric engine 32 kg / 70 lbs
100ah GEL-Heavy duty batteries 30 kg / 66 lbs

6 of these 180 kg / 396 lbs
total weight electric engine and batteries: 212 Kg / 466 lbs

and not to forget the little new HONDA-Generator 12 Kg / 26 lbs.

After removing the old, rather heavy engine it was important to put back the same amount of weight at the same place not to spoil the over all trim. Therefor the new batteries had to sit there where the old engine was.

Uwe
SY Aquaria
__________________
If you have the time, you alwas have the right winds.

More on my Centurion 32:
http://www.cabinetdeparodontologie.n...ria/index.html
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: Germany, Background, Cruising/Sailing the German Bight
Aquaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2013, 06:42 PM
vngquc21@yahoo.com
This message has been deleted by JeanneP. Reason: malicious postings
Old 01-24-2013, 12:35 PM   #18
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Home Port: Jacksonville
Posts: 1
Default

There is one other advantage that I haven't seen discussed: I see racing sailors LOVE to run diesels at VERY low rpm to reduce prop drag. I have told some of them that it is criminal to do that to a diesel engine but they still do it.

An electric propulsion system would allow a few rpm on the prop to eliminate drag. Solar panels could supply the small power draw to allow this to be done 24/7.

I have a CAT with two yanmars. The port engine is older but still runs fine. WHEN the day comes I intend to pull that engine, I will replace it with a hybrid system. One of the electric propulsion boats I looked at a couple of years ago at the Annapolis boat show had an auto starting DG that started on low voltage. I intend to do that with a dedicated battery bank just for that engine to make up for some of the lost weight. I now have a dedicated starting bank for each engine (2 batteries each engine) so two of the batteries are already on board (to be replaced by AGMs of course).

I will be in Miami in a couple of weeks for the boat show and intend to spend some time to see what is offered there by vendors.

I enjoyed reading all the posts here, thank you!
__________________
Scgator2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 08:22 PM   #19
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Default

It appears to me that the same people who put electric motors in boats own a VW Micro bus, have an apple computer, do yoga and eat nuts and berry's. Real men want diesel engines and I love the smell of diesel fuel in the morning it smells like masculine.
__________________
Guest2013a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 05:28 AM   #20
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,727
Default

The one true advantage of a diesel engine is that the combination of noise and the bloody awful stink, give sailboat skippers added incentive to hoist the sails as quickly as possible, so that the fire breathing monster (in my case a Perkins M30...so more of an imp than a monster) can be shut down at the earliest possible moment.
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 05:55 AM   #21
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Default

I was watching a youtube video of some people crossing the Atlantic and at one point they started up the engine and started motoring. I thought it was stupid because most sailing boats only carry enough diesel to get in and out of harbors but the wind had changed and they were headed right into the wind. Now if they were not sailing a bus with sails and had a boat that could point into the wind this was a good time to tack and in the middle of the Atlantic you could do long tacks.
__________________
Guest2013a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 02:02 PM   #22
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Home Port: Nuuk
Vessel Name: La Gitana
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaria View Post
@reefhunter - thank you for your pm! Here are some numbers of weight:
Original engine (Volvo MD2b 25hp 2zyl about 230 kg / 507 lbs
extra starter battery 30 kg / 66 lbs
total weigt for old system: about 260 Kg / 547 lbs

Electric engine 32 kg / 70 lbs
100ah GEL-Heavy duty batteries 30 kg / 66 lbs

6 of these 180 kg / 396 lbs
total weight electric engine and batteries: 212 Kg / 466 lbs

and not to forget the little new HONDA-Generator 12 Kg / 26 lbs.

After removing the old, rather heavy engine it was important to put back the same amount of weight at the same place not to spoil the over all trim. Therefor the new batteries had to sit there where the old engine was.

Uwe
So, the weight is -81lbs - I would have thought less, but then you need to reduce the size of the fuel tanks too. You won't need as large of tankage, if you are going mol electric.

My design boat has twin 3.9L Cummins, B Series - non electronic which weigh 400kg each + 300L tanks each side. If I was to replace with a smaller, lighter weight Cummins and 100L tanks - I could conceivably cut the weight down by 100kg which would make a BIG difference. Somewhere down the line, I'd like to build a cat with NG engines and tanks. A 100# cyl holds 24gal of LP or CNG
__________________
Capt Abraham
La Gitana
reefhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 02:07 PM   #23
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Home Port: Nuuk
Vessel Name: La Gitana
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWhylton View Post
It appears to me that the same people who put electric motors in boats own a VW Micro bus, have an apple computer, do yoga and eat nuts and berry's. Real men want diesel engines and I love the smell of diesel fuel in the morning it smells like masculine.
No, just trying to save a few thousand a week on fuel. When we were in Panama the cost to fuel the boat was $5000. In Venezuela it was $800. If I was able to legally operate in Venezuela I would do so - if for nothing else the cheap fuel. But we are not able to do so - so we're in Trinidad for the time being. We do have Apple computers, Ipods and Ipads, don't do Yoga or eat nuts and berries.
I too love the smell of diesel fuel and detest gasoline!
__________________
Capt Abraham
La Gitana
reefhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 04:22 PM   #24
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Default

I was doing a spoof on Lt. Col. William "Bill" Kilgore by Robert Duvall in "Apocalypse Now"
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." That is a good movie. Actually I think napalm has a diesel fuel aroma.

Years ago I did go to sea in an electric boat but it was a submarine and it had diesel's too big ones.
__________________
Guest2013a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 07:13 PM   #25
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Home Port: Nuuk
Vessel Name: La Gitana
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWhylton View Post
I was doing a spoof on Lt. Col. William "Bill" Kilgore by Robert Duvall in "Apocalypse Now"
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." That is a good movie. Actually I think napalm has a diesel fuel aroma.

Years ago I did go to sea in an electric boat but it was a submarine and it had diesel's too big ones.
Napalm is benzene and polystyrene - not gasoil.

In the old days they used dual two stroke General Motors/Detroit Diesel V71-series engines - each fitted with two superchargers (one for each six cylinders) to pump the output to 425 hp for each engine. These diesels provide the twist to charge the giant 126-cell batteries used to power dual 825hp electric propulsion motors.

Boomers don't have that problem - they have reactors.
__________________
Capt Abraham
La Gitana
reefhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 07:44 PM   #26
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Default

The electric boat has the same limited range problem as the electric car. When the wind is about to blow you on to the rocks the diesel engine will sound sweet.
__________________
Guest2013a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #27
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Home Port: Nuuk
Vessel Name: La Gitana
Posts: 16
Default

Never said I would abandon the diesel. I just wanted to see what alternatives there were. I'd rather depend on a wind generator than solar. But some people seem to think that solar is the cats meow - you can't convince them otherwise. In a head-to-head, my wind gen can recharge the batteries in six hours - it takes the solar panels 18+. The only place you have 18+ hrs of the sun is at the top and bottom of the world.
__________________
Capt Abraham
La Gitana
reefhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #28
Ensign
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefhunter View Post
Napalm is benzene and polystyrene - not gasoil.

In the old days they used dual two stroke General Motors/Detroit Diesel V71-series engines - each fitted with two superchargers (one for each six cylinders) to pump the output to 425 hp for each engine. These diesels provide the twist to charge the giant 126-cell batteries used to power dual 825hp electric propulsion motors.

Boomers don't have that problem - they have reactors.
The boat I was on had Fairbanks Morris ten cylinder opposed. Most of the engine men on boats with GM diesels had transfers in to transfer to a boat with FM diesels. The problem was when we were in port the the engine men on the GM boats had to stay aboard and work on the engines and the engine men on the FM boats went ashore.

NapalmTM (A) is a compound (formerly) made by Dow Chemical formed of aluminum naphthenate and aluminum palmitate, and the slurry of those two chemicals was the jelling ingredient that you added to gasoline to create the jellied incendiary known as napalm.
__________________

__________________
Guest2013a is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Or Diesel ? gslabbert5119 The Multihull Club 36 08-29-2012 03:06 PM
Size Of Engine For Boat teejay Engines | Propulsion | Generators 1 07-03-2010 08:02 AM
Electric Propulsion Nausikaa General Cruising Forum 3 09-03-2007 05:46 PM
Electric Auxiallary Nausikaa General Cruising Forum 10 08-13-2006 02:40 AM
Non-electric desalinators Ken Bourke General Cruising Forum 9 05-28-2006 01:40 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0