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Old 11-27-2010, 05:02 PM   #1
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The people behind Navigatrix, billed as the operating system for Navigators, have come through with a release.

It's built on solid Linux foundations with the tools and information used by people on boats.

Check it out: http://navigatrix.net

It just received the highest rating for Airmail, the Pactor/SSB application, under Wine (a Linux thing) of any Linux distribution so far.

OpenCPN and Gnuais run out of the box plus additional features, tools and information.

The hardest thing is learning to boot from a DVD, USB stick, or SD card.

There's a Support Forum for any questions.

Check it out and download a copy...at least for a backup.



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Old 11-29-2010, 07:11 PM   #2
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Wadda, there seems to be some concern that downloading this large (800 M file can wipe out the Windows Operating System and replace it with Linux. This is not acceptable if true, and there needs to be more specific instructions regarding downloading and installing this program.

I understand, but need this to be confirmed by someone, that one can instruct the installation to partition the hard drive to accomodate Linux separately from Windows OS. I figure that downloading it to a USB stick or SD card would be the better option, but again, more specific instructions should be provided for those who are not familiar with this, or don't have Windows 7.

Please help with more information.

Thank you.

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Old 11-29-2010, 07:47 PM   #3
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Hi there,

I'm familiar with some Linux OS boot CD/DVD/USB sticks. For example, I have an older version of Knoppix boot CD which happens to include some scientific utilities which are very useful for me. Ubuntu also can be used in the same manner.

Some folks put a boot loader on their computer (e.g. Grub ) and this allows them to boot in various versions of Windows or various versions of Linux. This, of course, isn't helpful if the hard drive fails. I use UBUNTU as my primary OS though my computer shipped with Windows7 which I can use via the boot loader. Ubuntu is a Debian based Linux OS.

Now, exactly why would the cruising community be interested in Navigatrix? vs any other boot CD with a good working version of Linux? The Navigatrix page you link to is a bit short on info--eg what is so great about it vs just going to Ubuntu directly as I do? How about security updates? I downloaded Ubuntu on my computer directly from their site without wiping out my OS--it simply installs a nice boot loader and Ubuntu runs in a file in the Windows file system which the Ubuntu linux OS perceives to be a disk drive. No partition, no re-format, nothing.

Wine is Wine. Wine doesn't care what Linux OS is being used. So???

Please give more info

Thanks!
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanneP View Post

Wadda, there seems to be some concern that downloading this large (800 M file can wipe out the Windows Operating System and replace it with Linux. This is not acceptable if true, and there needs to be more specific instructions regarding downloading and installing this program.

I understand, but need this to be confirmed by someone, that one can instruct the installation to partition the hard drive to accomodate Linux separately from Windows OS. I figure that downloading it to a USB stick or SD card would be the better option, but again, more specific instructions should be provided for those who are not familiar with this, or don't have Windows 7.

Please help with more information.
First downloading and installing the Navigatrix system on a USB Stick/SD card and booting from that device will not alter the existing systems or partitions on the hard drive. Never.

It was reported that one virus scanner falsely report the installer contains a virus because of the ability for the installer to format the USB Stick /SD Card...which is what it is suppose to do. The installer only reads the downloaded ISO from the hard drive....other wise it doesn't touch it. If someone's virus scanner states there is a virus in the installer it will also state there is a virus in the PenDrive Linux installer.

On the other hand if someone chooses to install Navigatrix on the hard drive for faster operation and increased space and versatility...such as putting on the offline Wikipedia....well then it touches the hard drive.

But what is universally true is that if you don't read the instructions or don't know what you are doing when you install an operating system to your hard drive you can delete your Windows partition. This is the same with any OS on any computer....even installing another Windows system.

Instruction for creating a dual boot system are readily available. Since Navigatrix is based on Ubuntu those instruction also apply. There is even a link to that information on the Navigatrix support page.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

Now, exactly why would the cruising community be interested in Navigatrix? vs any other boot CD with a good working version of Linux? The Navigatrix page you link to is a bit short on info--eg what is so great about it vs just going to Ubuntu directly as I do? How about security updates? I downloaded Ubuntu on my computer directly from their site without wiping out my OS--it simply installs a nice boot loader and Ubuntu runs in a file in the Windows file system which the Ubuntu linux OS perceives to be a disk drive. No partition, no re-format, nothing.

Wine is Wine. Wine doesn't care what Linux OS is being used. So???

Please give more info
I'm taking a wild guess that you used wubi. I don't know why the developers don't have a wnbi. You will have to ask. I don't use windows...anymore.

The reason I like Navigatrix is most of the programs are preconfigured. It's fast. Plug it in, or click on it, and it works. For example I had a bugger of a time with gnuais. The setup and configuration hassle was removed for me.

As other people have said, "anyone with a little knowledge of Linux can create some thing like this." Yes they can. It will probably look like Navigatrix apart form idiosyncratic flair.

...and yes, Wine is Wine. In Navigatrix, Airmail is fully functional for my use.....gps for position posts and propagation calculation....without have a clash with the OpenCPN listening to the gps port.

How well does Airmail work for you? How did you do it?
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Old 11-30-2010, 01:01 AM   #6
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I'm taking a wild guess that you used wubi. I don't know why the developers don't have a wnbi. You will have to ask. I don't use windows...anymore.

The reason I like Navigatrix is most of the programs are preconfigured. It's fast. Plug it in, or click on it, and it works. For example I had a bugger of a time with gnuais. The setup and configuration hassle was removed for me.

As other people have said, "anyone with a little knowledge of Linux can create some thing like this." Yes they can. It will probably look like Navigatrix apart form idiosyncratic flair.

...and yes, Wine is Wine. In Navigatrix, Airmail is fully functional for my use.....gps for position posts and propagation calculation....without have a clash with the OpenCPN listening to the gps port.

How well does Airmail work for you? How did you do it?
A wnbi installer is indeed a very low risk install for Windows users.

My husband is a hard-core-nothing-but-Debian-Linux fellow. He doesn't do Windows at all and I keep up with Windows applications so thus, use Windows on two of our computers. My preference for running multiple OS is to choose the "base" system and run everything else in vmware. However I do have Windows7 with Ubuntu on a 64 bit laptop. The 64 bit Windows7 drivers aren't really "there" for USB devices I need, therefore, I installed the Ubuntu as a short term fix for my situation. So far, so good.

Now, back to the realities of Navigatrix. It is Ubuntu based and Ubuntu is incredibly no-brainer for people to use. So, I don't really see why someone would use Navigatrix or any other OS when they could just use Ubuntu. You don't need to be a brilliant Linux person to use it.

I don't use airmail at this time so cannot comment on that. If there is another Linux user here, perhaps they can comment. So it would seem that most folks can figure out which serial port is being used by Wine for the radio and then assign a different one for OpenCPN if that is what Navigatrix is doing automatically for a person, isn't that sort of a one-time figure it out thing?

By the way, do you have HF email software or a regular pactor modem? The last time I investigated the software which allows use of HF email w/o a pactor modem, it required one to purchase a Windows license for use (no open source version).

What is your link to the Navigatrix developers? Are you a developer? Who did the development? Is there a Sourceforge link for it?

Fair winds,
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:03 AM   #7
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<snip>

How well does Airmail work for you? How did you do it?
I was just coming back to see if my posts were still here....yeah! They are.

...and I forgot to answer the 'security updates' and have been reflecting on the meta-arguments revolving around the need to update, even check for updates on a daily basis.

After a while I decided I don't need the best, the biggest, the fastest....the securest because for what I do, and I go; I'm not going to run that fast. I'm not threat to no one. And on the computer there is nothing anyone would want---but if there was. A) They won't know where to find it, and They won't know what to do with it..

For example, PGP fifteen years ago was hot stuff. I remember having to verify that I was in the US, and that I was not suppose to export the software in any form. I don't recall if it was limited to US nationals or not.. Really hot. Key rings and the whole bit. I did it. But then....why would an Iowan Sheep Farmer need pgp? I didn't.

I had nothing so valuable that someone couldn't come and lift up my arm and take it....or just ask. Unless I didn't want them too, and then it was protected. It was that simple..

But the thing I like with Navigatrix is the tools are there. If I wanted to smuggle plans for a high-tech-death-rayon my little netbook I could. [Editor: this is only a very hypothetical and fictional example. Wadda is not, nor will ever smuggle anything...ask him.]

If I wanted to send emails with sensitive, high value data to anyone with only the recipient capable of reading it ...I could. I don't seen any need to...but I could.

So, I don't care if something is the latest, greatest, most secure; I want something that runs on my junk with what I've got and what I have to say...at the speed I want to go.

That's why I'm on a bloody boat!

Navigatrix has an email program that I think is a bit crude.. It's called, Sylpheed. That program integrates PGP...for which I have no use. But if I had something to say, I would like to have the tool to do that....or encrypt a file, folder, or drive. I could do that.

There's a password keeper that someone could keep passwords. in an encrypted vault . If I had more than one 16 character, 105 bit, randomly generated password I might put them in there. But qwerty works for most of what I do.

I could use TOR to anonymously serf the web outwitting the local government's free wifi Restringido page(s). But, I don't see a need for that. I guess that's why Aircrack-ng was taken out of Navigatrix. If you want to do that, backtrack and get a different distribution.

I did rather dinghy into shore and hang out by the local sho.pette; using the unrestricted sidewalk wifi the store keeper uses as bait to sell beer and such to the cluster of cruisers who come to Skype and chat, email, exchange information and look for bootleg copies of XP. I don't do any of that. I just blabber on forums. No one is interested in a trail of tpyo filled posts poorly written by sock puppets with forgotten passwords.

I just want to plug in my GPS, converted VHF for AIS, have email, weatherfax, and gribs from offshore and the tools I need without a lot of hassle and painful compromise. I don't want to learn how to put together, or spend the time putting it together. I just want it to work and let me get on with doing a whole lot nothing important.

Now, as for real security updates, in the Linux family, I hear the current Navigatrix is pegged to the Ubuntu 10.04LTS core. What they get the Navigatrix user can get. If there were ever any reason....which I don't think there is, right now.

If you know of a better way to get back to doing nothing important... I'm all ears.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:12 AM   #8
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A wnbi installer is indeed a very low risk install for Windows users.

My husband is a hard-core-nothing-but-Debian-Linux fellow. He doesn't do Windows at all and I keep up with Windows applications so thus, use Windows on two of our computers. My preference for running multiple OS is to choose the "base" system and run everything else in vmware. However I do have Windows7 with Ubuntu on a 64 bit laptop. The 64 bit Windows7 drivers aren't really "there" for USB devices I need, therefore, I installed the Ubuntu as a short term fix for my situation. So far, so good.

Now, back to the realities of Navigatrix. It is Ubuntu based and Ubuntu is incredibly no-brainer for people to use. So, I don't really see why someone would use Navigatrix or any other OS when they could just use Ubuntu. You don't need to be a brilliant Linux person to use it.

I don't use airmail at this time so cannot comment on that. If there is another Linux user here, perhaps they can comment. So it would seem that most folks can figure out which serial port is being used by Wine for the radio and then assign a different one for OpenCPN if that is what Navigatrix is doing automatically for a person, isn't that sort of a one-time figure it out thing?

By the way, do you have HF email software or a regular pactor modem? The last time I investigated the software which allows use of HF email w/o a pactor modem, it required one to purchase a Windows license for use (no open source version).

What is your link to the Navigatrix developers? Are you a developer? Who did the development? Is there a Sourceforge link for it?
See. You know more than me. Like I said. I just want the dang thing to work. The Airmail com port thingy in Wine gave me fits so I guess I'm not like most folks. The ports would hop around....sure easy for most....thanks for just the inference on my abilities.

I tried gnuais in Ubuntu...and proved not only that I wasn't a brilliant Linux user, but I wasn't even a mediocre Linux user.

I'm not a programmer. I don't even balance my bank account. I've only developed a liking for Dominican cigars. I only bang on the keyboard as a pathetic form of entertainment and self expression. But I like Navigatrix and support all those people who made it possible.

Because, I want to plug stuff in and have it work. Navigatrix works for me . It's a collection of software if I want to go on the boat and still has the tools if I were to do something important if that ever occurred...without being married to a Debian wiz.

If you have something better...I'm all ears.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:15 AM   #9
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If you have something better...I'm all ears.
Marry a Debian wiz

Seriously, I just figured you had something to do with the development of the product since you've not posted here on Cruiserlog.com before this post. Usually folks give us a "hi, I'm so-and-so and here's all about me"...and then later we learn that so-and-so thinks something like Navigatrix is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We're working backwards here, you know? We know that you think this thing is the cat's meow, but....???

So, what is your interest in boating? What kind of boat do you have? Where do you cruise?

Fair winds,
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:31 AM   #10
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This is all absolute Greek to a simple (ex) cruiser like me - would not and could not get involved with something like this.
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Old 11-30-2010, 08:44 AM   #11
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This is all absolute Greek to a simple (ex) cruiser like me - would not and could not get involved with something like this.
That's exactly it. You don't have to know much. Slightly more than; Plug it in. Turn it on. Boot from stick, dvd, or memory card....and a bit of curiosity.

If you don't want to do that....there's nothing to see.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:18 AM   #12
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I have been using this for a couple of weeks, it works a treat. It was easy to download and set up on a usb stick, I downloaded the ISO file and the install file, then ran the install file. I like the fact that if my operating system or hard drive fails I can boot the pc from the Navigatrix usb and have all the programs I need instantly.

I give it a big thumbs up.

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Old 11-30-2010, 09:27 AM   #13
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Marry a Debian wiz

Seriously, I just figured you had something to do with the development of the product since you've not posted here on Cruiserlog.com before this post. Usually folks give us a "hi, I'm so-and-so and here's all about me"...and then later we learn that so-and-so thinks something like Navigatrix is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We're working backwards here, you know? We know that you think this thing is the cat's meow, but....???
...well, just chalk it up to an atypical post.

While I am enthusiastic about Navigatrix, as incredible as it seems, there are some thing I don't like. They are mostly matters of personal preference. But it's better than anything I could create....and better than anything anyone has done before to provide the tools that I can access and operate.

You're all decked out with personal tech support who likes to bash the keyboard and you don't use Airmail so there isn't much need for you to even run Navigatrix in a virtual machine.

But thanks for coming by.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:10 PM   #14
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I'm really glad the Cruiserlog member Gone Troppo has loaded Navigatrix and finds it useful. Thanks GoneTroppo for giving us your thumbs up on it.

But, Wadda, I asked you in my prior post to provide credible information about yourself as a cruiser: "what is your interest in boating? What kind of boat do you have? Where do you cruise?" because this is a site for cruisers. Folks who come along and tell us how great a product is but don't do any thing else tend to have a motive (e.g. spammers that frustrate all of us OR genuine developers of new products that might interest us). It's always best to tell folks up front if you're associated with the developer.

So, what is your interest in boating? What kind of boat do you have? Where do you cruise? Most new members to CL go to our "Tavern" and introduce themselves. This can place your other posts in context for our community.

Fair winds,
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